Lew's August Buzz: Lager Love!

[threecb]

Lew Bryson's current Buzz article sends out
a call for love of lagers. Steveh should be proud:

Lager Love (http://www.lewbryson.com/buzzin.htm)

[steveh]

Great minds think alike! ;) Couldn't agree more with the whole article.

Heh heh, "...you need your tongue scraped."

S.

And hey, what's this? Pilsners and Pale Ales being cousins? Whould'a thunk that?

"...they (Pilsners) are a convenient IPA of the lager world for hopheads to cling to..."

P.S. Thanks Lew!!

[threecb]

I think he's referring specifically to Prima and Jever, which are hoppier pilners. Not related, more of a redheaded stepchild -- no offense ;). I'd say Troegs Sunshine Pils falls into that category, too. I still love it, though!

[steveh]

Originally posted by threecb
I think he's referring specifically to Prima and Jever

Yes, but he's still making the comparison to similarities - something for which I was once scoffed at!

S.

[threecb]

oooooohhhhh.

gotcha.

lagerlover.

:D

[chazwicke]

Lager boy! Just teasin. I like all beer. (But still believe cask ales are tops.)

[chazwicke]

I sent Lew a thank you note for that article. He is very correct. Another long time advocate of lager styles is Bob Tupper.

I have alwas thought that it must be much more difficult to brew a precision pilsner than an imperial anything.

I also agree with the point about alcohol levels. Why does it seem that the direction the craftbrewers are seemingly taking is higher is better.

I am quite content with alcohol levels from 3.2 to 4.5 or 5%

I prefer English cask milds and this is one of the reasons. Guinness is only about 4%.

When I first joined this board one of the things I posted about was why did American micro's especially Stouts and Porters always have to be so over the top. Too roasty or too much alcohol. I still believe that the Europeans have been at it for so long that they have perfected the art of subtlty.

[Beaver]

Good article! I see a lot of people write off lagers because when you say lager, the first thing you think of is BMC (or is that BM(M)C now?)

I tend to go for ales, but I'll have to hunt out more lagers. The lager microbrewery by me has been tending to smoke everything, which would kind of defeat the purpose of lagers, I guess.

[steveh]

Originally posted by chazwicke
I sent Lew a thank you note for that article.

As did I! He's going to find out just how popular he is around here.

S.

[chazwicke]

Thanks for a wonderful wake up, Lew. Even an old Beercrank Like myself
could not have said it better. While I enjoy all beer types and styles
(and
I prefer English cask milds) I know that many, many people (beer geeks)
malign lagers precisely as you have described. It is my feeling that it is
harder to make a precision pilsner than a huge imperial anything. I hope
this wakes up many drinkers out there. I for one am tired of all the
double/imperial/wallop packed beers. What is wrong with making a decent
balanced 4% beer? Thanks again!

Chuck



Good to hear from you, Chuck, and yeah, it's something that needed saying.
Plenty of good beer south of 5%!

Take care,

Lew

[Lew Bryson]

Glad you guys liked it! But nobody picked up on my favorite line in the piece: "they are a convenient IPA of the lager world for hopheads to cling to like a baby's teddybear, a hop-soaked suck-toy that lets them prove they're bright enough to understand lager wonder."

Ah, stirrin' de pot!

Discussion is good. Sticking with one paradigm deserves questions. Lager rules...unless I feel like an ale.

Prost, brothers!

[Fast_Eddy]

In follow up to what Chaz is saying above - I've adopted a policy of always tasting a brewpub/micro's lager(if they have one) first to get an idea of how competent the brewer is. If he/she can pull off a nice helles or crisp pils you can be pretty sure that the rest of the beers are of high quality.

[fretlessman71]

I think I'm going to dedicate my growler purchases towards lagers for the month of August or until I just can't take it anymore in honor of this article and the great pilsner I just had. Smooth as silk (amazingly)! Big Horn Brewing. Give it a try!

[steveh]

Originally posted by Lew Bryson
Ah, stirrin' de pot!

As self-appointed lager crusader around here, and already responsible for many stirred pots, you'll notice that I opted to paraphraise your quote... but since they were your words to begin with, more power to ya! ;)

I think a favorite statement of mine, and oh so true, is: ""Complex" is as much a factor of the drinker as it is of the beer itself. Many beers have subtle complexities that are there for you to discover. If you continue to lash your tongue with hops, you'll never find them."

Discussion is good. Sticking with one paradigm deserves questions. Lager rules...unless I feel like an ale.

Ain't 'dat the bottom-line truth!

Thanks again Lew, don't be a stranger around here.
S.

[threecb]

Originally posted by Lew Bryson
Glad you guys liked it! But nobody picked up on my favorite line in the piece: "they are a convenient IPA of the lager world for hopheads to cling to like a baby's teddybear, a hop-soaked suck-toy that lets them prove they're bright enough to understand lager wonder."


Your similes and metaphors often cause me to smile! Thanks for stoppin' by, and thanks for keepin' us "Buzz"in'!

[chazwicke]

Yes, Lew, Come on back often. I miss those old Prodigy Network days and your informative and humerous posts as Lew in Langhorne.

Does your Bro-in-law still reside in Richmond?

[Beaver]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
I think I'm going to dedicate my growler purchases towards lagers for the month of August or until I just can't take it anymore in honor of this article and the great pilsner I just had. Smooth as silk (amazingly)! Big Horn Brewing. Give it a try!

I'll have to head over there...still haven't had a chance. I had a steam beer from them down in Denver a couple of weeks ago that was pretty good.

Don't forget Fort Collins Brewery. Last I heard, they had a pilsner on tap as well.

[Beaver]

Originally posted by steveh

Thanks again Lew, don't be a stranger around here.
S.

I'll second that!

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Beaver
I'll have to head over there...still haven't had a chance. I had a steam beer from them down in Denver a couple of weeks ago that was pretty good.

Don't forget Fort Collins Brewery. Last I heard, they had a pilsner on tap as well.
Actually, I'm headed there this week! Maybe I'll see you there.... :D

[Beaver]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Actually, I'm headed there this week! Maybe I'll see you there.... :D

When are you planning on heading over there?

[fretlessman71]

Must check with my better half on that one - will keep you posted. You still playing hockey tomorrow night? That seems to be your night for it... and we'll make it out one of these nights I swear! (Do they serve good beer at the rink?)

[Beaver]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Must check with my better half on that one - will keep you posted. You still playing hockey tomorrow night? That seems to be your night for it... and we'll make it out one of these nights I swear! (Do they serve good beer at the rink?)

Let me know about FCB, maybe we can meet up.

Yep, we play tomorrow. It's a late one - 10:45 start. Unfortunately no beer is served at the ice rink.

[fretlessman71]

Yeah, maybe that's a good play... beer and hockey fans don't mix too well, even at rec league games! ;)

[Theakston]

OK quite a decent article, nicely worded swipe at hop addled ale bigots, but I'm not buying the connection between English Soccer Hooligans and the denigration of Lager.

If you have to blame a sport for that, then blame NASCAR.
The derision of lager in this country is because of it's association with Bub Light and it's ilk, nothing to do with the Stella swigging stadium wreckers across the pond.

[steveh]

First of all, don't forget that "lager boy" ad from the U.K. I mentioned before (in some thread...buried somewhere...).

And I'll never forget the 4 English lads (no, not them) I met in Munich around 1992 who explained to me that they couldn't stand English ales and only drank, "loight lahgas."*

But yeah, I think the whole misconception of lager (there's a book title) can be put on the shoulders of the big three, no doubt. Whether it's NASCAR or the NFL, or the over use of Madison Avenue, it's brainwashing - plain and simple.

S.

Of course, Stella's another lager that is a mere shadow of its former self too.

*Footnote: I forgot to mention that these boyos' favorite beer to be supped back home in the U.K. was Carlsberg, so we can't blame only U.S. macros.

[chazwicke]

Nascar! LOL! Good one!!

[hopjack13]

kinda gives you/me a different view on the whole lager thing , i've always enjoyed urquell and have been known to sping for a oct fest once in a while but lew makes it sound like im missing a whole other world....
hey i've got a urquell mirror from way back in the 80's, i think, and it says brewed sence 1200 something..? what gives?

[hops99]

If some beer "posers" (a term I'm borrowing from Steveh, if I recollect) think that Bud is representative of all lagers, then by using the same logic, Genny Cream ALE should represent all ales, right?

I love a great ale as much as a great lager, but I've been drinking alot more lager than ale the last year or so - I think my beer appreciation, which started about 10 years ago with Great Lakes Dort Gold and Penn Pilsner - has come full circle, for many of the same reasons that Bryson's article points out. My fridge these days is stocked with the GL and Penn brews above, as well as lagers from Capital, New Glarus, Tuppers, Spaten, and others (and a few solid ales, too).

Last thought: the breweries that I have the most respect for are the ones that can brew great ales AND great lagers.....

[steveh]

Originally posted by hopjack13
but lew makes it sound like im missing a whole other world....

**seriously banging head on desktop** That's what I've been trying to tell everyone around here for a couple years now!

I know, I know, Lew is definitely a more reputable source than a goof with a silly avatar at an internet forum, maybe I should have sent him that bribe a long time ago...uh, I mean... ;)

AFA Urquell from the 1200s, the brewery was probably there, though they were brewing the popular beer of the time, more than likely, not the crisp, light, clear beer that became known as Pilsner.

S.

"Brewing in Pilsen and Budweis dates from the 1200s." The New World Guide to Beer, Jackson

[threecb]

Originally posted by steveh
[BBut yeah, I think the whole misconception of lager (there's a book title) ...[/B]

The Unbearable Lightness of Lager?;)

All this lager talk reminds me...it's almost O-fest time!

[steveh]

Originally posted by threecb
All this lager talk reminds me...it's almost O-fest time!

...guess what I picked up on my way home last night..?

Yeah, yeah, I know - it's nearly 2 months early, but it was there, offered to me, and could I say no?

More to come, but it was gooooooood. :)

S.

[hopjack13]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by steveh
[B]**seriously banging head on desktop** That's what I've been trying to tell everyone around here for a couple years now!


actually , to give credit where credit is due, i never thought much of lagers untill i started reading your posts, then i got hooked on urquell and the o'fest brews ;)
although there's still a ways for me to go, i have a hard time trying new beers. go for something i may like? or go for something i know i'll love? the only time i really try new beers is at a pub where i can ask for a sample before i purchase a pint...
still, alot of these huge pubs that have 70, 80, 100 + beers really don't have much more then bmc as far as lagers go, but a huge selection of ales.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by steveh
*..

[SIZE=1]"Brewing in Pilsen and Budweis dates from the 1200s." The New World Guide to Beer, Jackson


The PU brewery wasn't used for lager production until 1842, two years after Anton Dreher and Gabriel Sedlmayr figured out that the Bavarian monks were using a different strain of yeast than the rest of the world - lager yeast. Intentional lager brewing in Vienna(Dreher) and Munich(Sedlmayr) began a couple of years before lager production in Bohemia (which IIRC was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire at the time). Before that point Bohemian beers were not viewed as very high quality - due to the fact that the water is very well suited for light colored lagers but poorly suited for darker ales.

For an excellent discussion of the above see George Fix's treatise "Vienna, Marzen, Oktoberfest" published by the AHA.

[threecb]

Originally posted by steveh
...guess what I picked up on my way home last night..?

Yeah, yeah, I know - it's nearly 2 months early, but it was there, offered to me, and could I say no?

More to come, but it was gooooooood. :)

S.

I understand your early score. It's one of the few seasons that I try to rush too. I loves me dem O-fests!

[chazwicke]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by steveh
**seriously banging head on desktop** That's what [b]I've been trying to tell everyone around here for a couple years now!

I Have always enjoyed and respected lagers. I have been completely aware of them. They deserve respect. I however prefer ales. There is nothing wrong with that either. I think we can enjoy the best of both worlds. I have lagers in my top 10 as well as ales. It would be horrible to limit oneself to just one or the other. That said, I can't believe you don't like Gueuze. There are some bad ones, but, there are some magnificent ones too. I agree about fruit beers with the exception of a few Krieks such as Oude Beersel. Some Lambics are stunning while others (Lindemans) can be crap IMO.

[Theakston]

Originally posted by steveh
Of course, Stella's another lager that is a mere shadow of its former self too.

*Footnote: I forgot to mention that these boyos' favorite beer to be supped back home in the U.K. was Carlsberg, so we can't blame only U.S. macros.

Yes Stella used to be quite good (the genuine Belgian stuff). Carlsberg too! the 47 the beer club sent out was excellent.

Anyway without Carlsberg there would be no lagers at all right?

[chazwicke]

I wonder if Stanley Kowalski enjoyed Stella?

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by Theakston
...
Anyway without Carlsberg there would be no lagers at all right?

Emil Hansen, at the Carlsberg brewery, was the first to isolate the lager strain around 1880 but not the first to brew with it. He isolated it from the yeast that he got from Munich where it was being used to brew lagers since 1840.

*Of course the Bavarian monks had been brewing with a lager strain since the 16th century but they couldn't figure out why it didn't work well except in the winter.

[MeridianFC]

This thread is making me thirsty.

http://www.andechs.de/images/startseite/index_logo.gif

I've never understood in the wide world of beer why one would want to limit oneself? Lager, ale, they're all family.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by MeridianFC
This thread is making me thirsty.

I've never understood in the wide world of beer why one would want to limit oneself? Lager, ale, they're all family.

Yeah like I've said before - Trying to pick between lagers and ales is like being asked to pick your favorite child - I love 'em both the same.

[davesarman]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
Yeah like I've said before - Trying to pick between lagers and ales is like being asked to pick your favorite child - I love 'em both the same.

Or better yet, blondes and brunettes. (maybe redheads too). People always ask if you like Ginger or Mary Ann, but if I had my choice, it would be both, thank you very much. Same with ales and lagers. :D

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by davesarman
.. Ginger or Mary Ann, but if I had my choice, it would be both..

Truer words have never been spoken :)

[Richard English]

Good lagers have their place, I agree. And I agree, too, that the disgraceful behaviour of the so-called lager louts is worthy of wholesale condemnation.

Having said which, I have never found a lager, of any style, that equals its cask-conditioned equivalent.

For summer drinking there is little to match a cask-conditioned mild at around the 3% mark. And there's many a pint of Harvey's dark mild I've been drinking over the past few weeks.

Sadly I suspect it's a style your have yet to find in the USA - but I am sure that, once your embrionic craft beer brewing industry has finished its flirtation with extreme beers, that someone will try a mild and, who knows, it might just become the new taste sensation!

[fretlessman71]

I sure hope you're right, Richard - I like the idea of having a brew that doesn't have to stun you to impress you!

I'm sure that after my self-imposed month-long sabbatical from ale that the reunion will be joyous indeed. :D

[chazwicke]

I hope he is right too. Milds are my preference when it comes to pubs and English beer fests. I'm looking forward to his report on GBBF this week. I'm still bummed that I didn't make it.

[chazwicke]

This just in:

SHEFFIELD BEER IS BEST BEER IN BRITAIN

Great British Beer Festival 2004
London Olympia, 3rd - 7th August

Pale Rider brewed by Kelham Island Brewery of Sheffield was today
judged to be the best beer in Britain by a panel of brewers, beer
writers and journalists.

The beer is described in the 2004 edition of CAMRA's Good Beer Guide
as, 'A full bodied, straw pale ale, with a good fruity aroma and a
strong fruit and hop taste. Its well-balanced sweetness and bitterness
continues in the finish.'

The Sheffield brewed beer was chosen as the overall winner from over
fifty finalists in eight categories including beers from tiny micros to
major regional brewers.

Roger Protz, one of the finalist judges and Editor of the Good Beer
Guide said, "The judges were struck by the superb balance of malt, hops
and fruit. A wonderfully complex and refreshing beer."

Paul Ward, Head Brewer of Kelham Island Brewery said, "I'm gobsmacked.
I thought the beer would do well, but to win is amazing. At only 31
years old what do I do now? Thanks to our great team at the brewery,
Stuart, Richard, Dave 'The Driver', David Wickett our Director and all
our customers at the Fat Cat pub in Sheffield."

The Silver award went to IPA from Greene King (Suffolk). Bronze went to
Ironside from the Hampshire Brewery.

Mild Category
Bronze: Hardys and Hansons Kimberley Mild
Silver: Brains Dark
Gold: JW Lees GB Mild

Bitter Category
Joint Bronze: Triple FFF Altons Pride and Whim Hartington Bitter
Silver: Oakham JHB
Gold: Greene King IPA

Best Bitter Category
Joint Bronze: Nottingham Extra Pale Ale and Woodfordes Nelson's Revenge
Silver: Hook Norton Generation
Gold: Hampshire Ironside

Strong Ale Category
Bronze: Hop Back Summer Lightning
Silver: Mordue IPA
Gold: Kelham Island Pale Rider

Speciality Category
Bronze: Titanic Iceberg
Silver: Harviestoun Schiehallion
Gold: Cairngorm Tradewinds

Real Ale in a Bottle category
Bronze: Yates Isle of Wight Special
Silver: Youngs Special London Ale
Gold: Titanic Stout

http://www.camra.org.uk/

[chazwicke]

And this from DC / Baltimore area:

Subject: [DC-Beer] Great British Beer Festival

A contingent from our area's SPBW (Society for the Preservation of Beer
from the Wood) is at the Great British Beer Festival to volunteer.

Most the beers judged at the GBBF, except for the bottle-conditioned
ale category, are cask real ales. One member was anxious, before going,
that he would no longer enjoy cask ale here after tasting it there.

It's true that real ale is best when absolutely fresh. But I hope that
he realizes instead what a rare treat it has been for THREE Baltimore
pubs to REGULARLY serve British cask ales.

[Richard English]

Quote "...It's true that real ale is best when absolutely fresh..."

That's the kind of statement that confuses people since it is ambiguous.

Cask-conditioned beer, when first delivered to the pub (and at its "freshest") is undrinkable.

It becomes drinkable after a period ranging from a day or so to maybe four days and then continues to develop.

When it first becomes drinkable it will be clightly sweeter and slightly weaker than it will eventually finish. As it develops it will change (but not deteriorate) until the residual sugar has all gone and the fermentation will then finish. Soon after that it will begin to deteriorate and turn to vinegar.

So, as you can see, the term "absolutely fresh" has no meaning - although I can see what the writer was trying to say.

[chazwicke]

One member was anxious, before going,
that he would no longer enjoy cask ale here after tasting it there

I thought this statement was interesting. It took me awhile to adjust back to bottled beer after my visit to London last May. Especially after attending the Ealing Broadway festival. There definitely is a transistion period to re-acclimate.

[MeridianFC]

Originally posted by chazwicke

Speciality Category
Bronze: Titanic Iceberg
Silver: Harviestoun Schiehallion
Gold: Cairngorm Tradewinds


Just to bring the two worlds together, the bolded brew is a cask conditioned lager!

It's killing me to be missing the GBBF.

[steveh]

Originally posted by hopjack13
still, alot of these huge pubs that have 70, 80, 100 + beers really don't have much more then bmc as far as lagers go, but a huge selection of ales.

I agree that it's difficult to find good lagers on tap at a place like that, but how many of the ales in those places are run-of-the-mill APAs? I quit a beer-of-the-month-club because all I received for a year was 12 packs of APA. That's when I fell away from SNPA and didn't realize what I'd really been missing and pushed away from.

Same with finding only Beck's and Miller on tap. Anyone ever hear of Great Lakes or Capiital?

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by chazwicke
That said, I can't believe you don't like Gueuze. There are some bad ones, but, there are some magnificent ones too.

I can't get past the sour. However, that doesn't mean I won't stop trying, just for the sake of knowledge and an open mind - especially in a beverage I so savor.

If it hadn't been for some of the fresh Rauchs, I would probably still think in terms of Kaiserdom and not even think about grabbing a bottle when the urge hits.

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Theakston
Carlsberg too! the 47 the beer club sent out was excellent.

The 47 is outstanding, not what you'd expect from Carlsberg. Then again, it's not quite a "light" lager, is it?

Anyway without Carlsberg there would be no lagers at all right? [/B]

Well, the popularity may not have spread wide and far, but it's not like Carlsberg invented the yeast - or the style. In the same thinking, we may have A/B to blame for the downfall of lager, no?

Funny thing is, at one time A/B was the distributor for Carlsberg here in the 'States, maybe still is?

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by chazwicke
I wonder if Stanley Kowalski enjoyed Stella?

Heh, heh, heh - I was thinking that when I typed the name - and I believe he did, for a little while at least. ;)

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Richard English
I have never found a lager, of any style, that equals its cask-conditioned equivalent.

I have. :) But again, it's all a matter of tastes.

...that someone will try a mild and, who knows, it might just become the new taste sensation!

Two of the friends I visited England with were brewmasters at a small, local brew-pub in the area. After sampling the Sam Smith Mild we were lucky enough to taste on our trip, they re-created the brew for thee pub. It was near spot on, and deelish. However, the pub's owner banned them from ever making the brew again, because - it was too light in alcohol. Hah.

They got around the owner's demand because he knew very little about making beer, and was always hands off in the process. They stopped calling it mild and would tell the owner a false O.G. Those of us who knew the 2 brewers, and knew the beer's tap name, would always sell it out!

S.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by steveh
I have. :) But again, it's all a matter of tastes.

.

I second that.

[Theakston]

Originally posted by steveh
but it's not like Carlsberg invented the yeast - or the style.
S.

But they did, didn't they? That's why the yeast is named Carlsbergensis.

or that's what Protz says in the guardian (http://travel.guardian.co.uk/activities/food/story/0,7447,436351,00.html)

[steveh]

Originally posted by Theakston
But they did, didn't they? That's why the yeast is named Carlsbergensis.

As Eddy said, they isolated it, and yeah - more than likely made it easier to use (but not that easy, right home-brewers?), but bottom fermenting yeast and the practice of lagering had been used in brewing beer for a long time before the isolation. Carlsberg's Hansen's first successful use of the isolated yeast strain didn't come until 1883. Pilsner was first introduced in 1842, and it wasn't the first lager either.

S.

[davesarman]

As coincidence would have it, Carlsberg is today's featured beer on my Page-a-Day beer calender:

CARLSBERG
Brewed in Copenhagen, Denmark

Carlsberg’s clean, malty aroma is a harbinger of good things to come. Its light, background hoppiness nicely complements a dry, malty mouthfeel as the creamy, small-bubbled head releases tiny, soft pinpricks of effervescence across the palate. A tasty sweetening malt presence is more noticeable at the end. First brewed in 1847, Carlsberg remains a lager that is enjoyed and appreciated by both veteran and novice beer drinkers.

QUAFF QUOTE
“Probably The Best Beer In Town.”
—CARLSBERG’S MODEST SLOGAN ON THE SIDE OF A BUILDING IN COPENHAGEN’S CITY HALL SQUARE

[Richard English]

Quote "...As coincidence would have it, Carlsberg is today's featured beer on my Page-a-Day beer calender..."

In my favourite local boozer, The Garland, he does sell Carlsberg for the benefit of those with untutored palates and, on his beer menu (where he gives a write-up of the various brews) he says, against the Carlsberg entry, "Probably...lager"