Open a brewery? [Archive] - Page 2 - Realbeer.com Beer Community

Brewmaster

09-08-2006, 11:51 AM

Hey all, new to the board here and trying to get a brewery open myself!!

I hate to ask but would anyone be willing to share brewpub business plans? I'm working on one but at a bit of a loss!

Hope all your projects are moving forward, any updates? Bruno, Chaz??

Cheers from Nova Scotia all! :D

chazwicke

09-09-2006, 10:45 AM

Bruno, If you are finished with it, would you please forward the business plan that I sent to you to Brewmaster.

Good luck with your planned Brewpub in Halifax. I have enjoyed brews at Granite in your fair city.

Beermaker

10-02-2006, 12:38 AM

Along these same lines.....Why is it so much cheaper to make, distribute and sell wine then beer.

nwcw2001

11-09-2006, 09:24 PM

GREAT THREAD!

I have just found this tread and in a matter a half hour sat and read everyword with baited breath! I am in the process of working on a business plan for a brewpub here in Washington. I have a few sticking points, mostly hard numbers that investers REALLY want to see. I am finding it hard to get the information to give an educated guess to what those numbers will be.

FFF's Business plan has been a great help in giving me broad strokes for the makeup and language of the BP, but they started a brewpub as an off shoot of a successful brewery operation. And their business plan doesn't have the same information I believe mine would need.

Bruno : How indepth was your feasiblilty study? Did they ask pointed questions or was it just a general, "what would the local population withstand" kinda thing?

Chaz : Is it possible for me to look at your business plan to compare and contrast and see how far up my ass my head actually is?

So now that I have babbled on like a dip and given no substantial questions you are all invited to inundate me with information or bitchslaps for not really asking the hard hitting questions. :p

Thanks for everything so far guys,

John

Brewmaster

11-10-2006, 09:17 PM

Heya Bruno! Still waiting for a copy of the plan :) If you could get it sent off to me asap I would really really appreciate it!

Just lemme know if you need my address again!

Cheers All!

Brewmaster

11-10-2006, 09:20 PM

Chaz, give me a shout if you ever head up this way again, I usually have some excellent dry hopped etc stashed away for special occassions!

nwcw2001 - I'm right there with ya buddy! :D

nwcw2001

11-16-2006, 02:41 PM

Oh sure when I join the discussion it dies!!! ;)

A guy could take it personal!!

HEHEHEHEHE

John

MeridianFC

11-16-2006, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by chazwicke
Bruno, If you are finished with it, would you please forward the business plan that I sent to you to Brewmaster.

.

Howcome I never saw the business plan? I've been sitting on 2 tons of Maris Otter for months.

:D

nwcw2001

12-10-2006, 04:22 PM

did this thread die? I get all into it and then it peters out! It's like being really into a tv show and going on vacation and coming back to it being cancelled!

How are things going Bruno?

We are living vicariously through you !

John

MeridianFC

12-11-2006, 04:14 PM

I too am wondering what the dealy-o is. What's the 411 Bruno?

Thirsty in NY

12-11-2006, 07:53 PM

His last post was September 8th. Maybe he's too busy at the new brewery.

nwcw2001

01-18-2007, 05:19 PM

Bruno?
you still with us brother?

nwcw2001

03-13-2007, 09:48 PM

bump bump

Just breathing life into this little thread!

John

MrNate

03-14-2007, 07:58 PM

Interestingly enough, this thread has reminded me that as cool as it may sound, brewing for a living is still a lot of work.

jstrausss

03-14-2007, 08:33 PM

I do alot of work now (for someone else). It might as well be something I love :)

EBW

11-30-2007, 06:52 PM

Would a 2bbl brewery be able to make any money if the beer was sold at wholesale to local package stores and resturants?

nwcw2001

11-30-2007, 07:06 PM

In a word, NO.

You figure that a 2 bbl brewery makes 4 kegs of beer in a batch. you would have to make beer all day long to try to make any money.

darylM

12-03-2007, 11:47 AM

i think the min u need is a 3.5 to 4 bbl brewery to make money. I read an article where a brewery used thier 3.5 system to make limited or experimental batches.

ArtisanCreek

01-05-2008, 04:17 PM

i think the min u need is a 3.5 to 4 bbl brewery to make money. I read an article where a brewery used thier 3.5 system to make limited or experimental batches.

Why not? If the question is really "Can you make a living..." then I would agree. But to make money (read: starting to develop a market/interest/etc..) it should be a numbers game.

I'm not trying to parse the words to be a jerk, it's just that I'm starting to think along the same lines as most of the posters and while keeping my day job (wife's funny that way), I could see starting out slowly, testing the waters, refining technique, BP, etc... (ok, just about everything) so that the jumping off point isn't a parachuteless base jump.

With that said, if anybody has any copies of the BP's that have been talked about here, I would appreciate being able to look at them.

It's 2008 now and while this thread has been going for some time and dormant for some time, does anyone have any updates? It would be great to hear some of the outcomes and the trials and tribulation incurred.

Thanks everyone for such an interesting and frankly motivating thread.

EBW

01-07-2008, 06:53 PM

That's what I was getting at. I didn't assume such a brewery would make a living. I guess I should have been a little more descriptive. I just wanted to know I it was possible to make any money at all.

Even if such a small operation lost a little money or just broke even it could still be a worthwhile hobby that may later attract investment, considering the beer was supurlative of course.

nwcw2001

01-07-2008, 08:10 PM

I think if you were to have a 2bbl system in a brewpub environment you would be able to make money. But the costs of packaging and distributing make is highly unlikely you would make any money as a package brewery.

There is a brewery in Northwood Iowa that is brewing for there brewpub on a Sabco system, but they are in a tiny little town and it is all tap service. Check them out

http://www.worthbrewing.com/

John

EBW

01-08-2008, 01:37 AM

Well, there are only three places that sell beer where I am at and I live less then .5 mi. from the farthest one, so distribution costs wouldn't much of an issue. Packaging would be a bit sticky though.

I wonder, is it legal to bottle beer in recycled bottles and then resell it? That could cut down costs.

I realize of course, that any labels from the previous beer would have to be removed and that an embossed or engraved bottle would be out of the question, in addition to bottles that have twist off caps but what about beers that are in just plain bottles?

Any takers on this one?

Mill Rat

01-08-2008, 08:42 AM

Until about 10 years ago, beer from the big players was sold in returnable long necks, with a deposit of $0.05 per bottle. The bottles were heavyweight by today's non-returnable (NR) standards ( I could and did pound in small nails with them). They brewers would clean, relabel, and refill them. It wasn't unusual to get a bottle that had two or three labels pasted one over the other. They got out of that line when the "trippage" (how many times, on average the bottles came back) dropped so low it was more expensive to make the more durable bottles and clean and reuse them a few times than it was to use new, cheaper bottles each time. Same thing was true with soda in the 16 ounce bottles in the 8-packs. So it was economics that got us to the all NR situation we're in now, not any legal requirement.

ArtisanCreek

01-08-2008, 08:02 PM

I agree - bottles are bottles and that shouldn't be a problem.

I question the distribution though. While you say "live less then .5 mi. from the farthest one", it may be a legal issue. In that, I believe, in some states don't they require you to go through a distributor? Or some other type of middleman and not directly to the store selling the beer. I live in Illinois, so it would probably be different from where you are, but still something to investigate.

Anybody else know?

ClaudiusB

01-08-2008, 09:44 PM

In that, I believe, in some states don't they require you to go through a distributor? Or some other type of middleman Same rule in Texas for a brewery.
I am currently reading a 290 page document about Texas brewing and alcohol laws.
Because of our great alcohol laws Samuel Adams could not send me the new beer glasses as a present as promised. Since guns are legal in Texas I told them to send me a hand gun with there Logo on it.

Get your state copy first than the county rules.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

EBW

01-09-2008, 11:10 AM

Interesting points. I had not thought about the distributor factor.

It is ridiculous that things could get so out of hand to make sure that taxes are being collected (as I assume that is the reason why one would have to send commercial beer through a distributor).

If the rest of the commercial world had to start off distributing their goods locally through a regional distributor, free enterprise would lock down.

EBW

01-09-2008, 11:24 AM

So it seems as though in order to get a small brewery (2-3 bbl. system) to fly, a person would need to brew multiple times daily and do so as a brewpub to start.

I don't really want to own, or for that matter, be a part of a resturant operation. Secondly, I have no interest in the risks/headaches involved in selling the beer retail.

What's a guy got to do to be a local brewer? My ambitions aren't all that big. I simply want to own and brew at a small hometown brewery. I'm not exactly hard pressed to make a killing, or even a living at it. It seems as though a bit larger system would be a necessity (perhaps 4-7 bbl.) but if I have to go through a distributor, that makes thing harder.

I am going to look up the regs. for my state to see what is required. I am almost sure I will find that this state will probably require a distributor. New Mexico is very unreasonable in regards to their alcohol laws.

ClaudiusB

01-09-2008, 09:05 PM

What's a guy got to do to be a local brewer?
Move across the pond:D or give the beer away if you can't find a distributor.
Start as a brew pup, once your beers sales are up and you have
enough loyal customers convert to a brewery.
Find a friend who is willing to open a distributor ship to sell your beer.
By Texas law the brewery can't have any interest in the distributorship.
The next problem how to get the beer to the distributor (read the law). it s**

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

EBW

01-10-2008, 10:47 AM

Sounds like TX is a real pain in the neck about alcohol too.

ArtisanCreek

01-10-2008, 07:29 PM

Yeah, the details are rough. I'm reading Sam Calagione's book and I noted one point in which you have to send the label to the, I think, FDA for approval. Checking that what you are saying on the label is correct, not lude, etc...

Here's a link that might help:
http://www.probrewer.com/resources/distribution/ (http://www.probrewer.com/resources/distribution)

It has some info on distribution. They also have discussions regarding some of the issues you're talking about.

Don't get discouraged. Good luck.

EBW

01-10-2008, 11:00 PM

Thanks for the link. I know that all the hassels would be worth it if I ended up getting a small brewery going.

brewmonkey

01-18-2008, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by ArtisanCreek
Yeah, the details are rough. I'm reading Sam Calagione's book and I noted one point in which you have to send the label to the, I think, FDA for approval. Checking that what you are saying on the label is correct, not lude, etc...

Here's a link that might help:
http://www.probrewer.com/resources/distribution/ (http://www.probrewer.com/resources/distribution)

It has some info on distribution. They also have discussions regarding some of the issues you're talking about.

Don't get discouraged. Good luck.

You do not have to send a label to the FDA for approval, they have nothing to do with the process of labels. You do have to send it to the ATF for approval however but they have a great set of guidelines that if followed make the process very easy. We did several labels in house and submitted them for approval with no problems. What was a bigger pain in the butt was finding a printer capable of printing the labels exactly as they were approved and on the proper type of label as to stick and stay on the bottles as we were doing this by hand and not on a machine.

ArtisanCreek

01-18-2008, 09:26 PM

Yeah, I wasn't sure about the agency, just that it was another step.

I re-read the passage and he said "government". I'm also reading another book and they say "government" too.

Thanks for the clarification though - good information.

Ben_J8mmin

03-03-2008, 03:45 PM

Somewhere around post 165 there was a business plan going around I'd love to see a copy if anyone has a pdf?
Thanks ben

rhino777

03-03-2008, 05:26 PM

Yeah that's how Lagunita's Copper Ale got to be called "Censored". They originally were going to call it the Kronik but the ATF picked up on the reefer reference.

nwcw2001

03-03-2008, 05:57 PM

Somewhere around post 165 there was a business plan going around I'd love to see a copy if anyone has a pdf?
Thanks ben

I have a copy of FFF's business plan if you want, I can email you a copy. I don't think Bruno_78 started this thread about 3 1/2 years ago then dropped off the face.

I really wished he would pop back up and let us know what's going on.

John