Another disturbing night at our local pub

[Bruno_78]

Well, I've just returned from a disturbing visit to our local brew pub. It started out that after we were seated, we sat there for about ten minutes before the group of waitresses noticed we hadn't been served. This had also happened on our last visit, and after fifteen minutes, we left.

So we got served, received our beer, a nice IPA exclusively hopped with centennial hops. This has been about the only beer I have had at the pub since early this year. I know the beer, I know what it tastes like. Studentofbeer and I actually spoke last weekend of how much we liked the centennial hops in beers. After tasting a few sips, we observed that there was almost no hop flavor or aroma from these hops I love so well, and it had an undesirable aftertaste. So we sent it back and got another style. We had only slightly started our pints when we sent them back.

When our bill came, we were still charged for the original beers, and the waitress explained that her manager (the bartender) wouldn't allow her to take it off. We asked to speak to the manager, the waitress left, came back and said that the manager was too busy to come over, and that she (the waitress) had paid for our first beers.

There are a few problems here. First of all, I felt really bad that the waitress paid for our beers, I intend on asking the general manager tomorrow to compensate her for that. (we also tipped generously) Next, I don't feel we should have been charged for the original beers. Finally, I find it atrocious that the bartender/manager couldn't make time for a mildly upset customer.

Maybe some of you guys that have run breweries (Stod, Brewmonkey) and anyone else with an opinion could tell me if perhaps I was out of line being upset.

Lately I seem to generally be dissapointed with service at most restaurants, and I'm starting to think it's not them, but me. Maybe my expectations are too high.

[Stodbrew]

Being that I just work in the brewery, I don't have a lot to do with customer service unless it is pertaining specifically to my beers. However, I don't have a problem telling servers, or other managers, my opinion on how things should be done in the pub. In a tactful way, of course. The fact that they didn't comp your first beers is flat out stupid. And the fact they made the server pay for them is even crazier. If someone is unhappy with my beer, and after a few sips, wants something else, they will get something else, with no problems. That's just the way it should be.

I don't think you were out of line to be upset. I agree with you in that I think service in general seems to be getting worse. Hopefully, its a short lived trend.

[Bruno_78]

I guess it's survival of the fittest. It's really too bad that more businesses don't concentrate more on customer service. Some say it's not profitable. Well, I'm here to tell you, the business that I work for is 100% customer service, and we're making a profit.

I think our town needs at least one more brew pub, a little friendly competition couldn't hurt, could it?

[Stodbrew]

That's pathetically funny that some people say customer service isn't profitable. If I get bad service, I'm not going back and spending my money there. I will, however, give a place at least three times to get it right. After that, forget it.

[wortchillergoal]

I think the lack of service can be linked directly to the way the management treats it's staff. Whyn would any wait person want to take a table when money comes out of their pocket if there is a problem. No telling what other bad tactics they use to manage their staff. I had always said in job interviews that an employee will treat the customer the same way management treats them.

I would indeed talk to that manager. If he is not the owner as well, I would also speak with him. You may tell them that a manager for the #9 best company to work for in America according to Forbes, we have never been off that list, finds their managers handling of the situation to be lacking.

[Richard English]

I agree with everything that has been said here. If, in the UK, you send a beer back for any reason, the publican will usually just change it without argument. I've only once been refused a replacement pint in my drinking life] - and I've never been back to that pub again (how much has that cost them, I wonder?)

Furthermore, any good pub will let you have a taster before you buy a full pint. And if you don't like the taster - even if it's fine but just not to your taste, then you just don't order that beer and try another, or others, until you find what you want.

Oh, and incidentally for the benefit of those who have never visited an English pub - don't take a table and wait to be served. If you do you'll still be waiting there when they close. English pubs do not have waiter service; you go to the bar, order (and pay for immediately) your drink and take is to the table. Very occsionally the barman will offer to carry it to your table - usually if there's likely to be a short delay because the barrel's being changed.

Only if the pub serves food will you be served - and even then you usually have to order your meal at the bar.

It sound strange to those used to the US way of having greeters who show you to a table and waiters who take your order - but that's the way English pubs are and that's one of the reasons why they are unique.

Having experienced both systems I can say I prefer the British system if I just want a drink and the US system if I want a meal as well.

[steveh]

The manager-on-duty was a spineless git for not talking with you. Tough-guy to his waitresses, but can't confront an unhappy customer, nice.

Customer srvice is the 'A' number one aspect of good business, especially the restaurant business - ask anyone who has a successful restaurant. I can't wait to hear the outcome of your discussion with the general manager.

I'm surprised that a college town such as South Bend only has one brew-pub, but there's probably more swill flowing through their than good beer. How busy is this place usually? And, I don't think you should be afraid to tell us the name of the establishment, word-of-mouth is a great defense against shoddy practices such as this.

Is this link (http://www.chowbaby.com/searchbrewpubs.asp?city=SOUTH%20BEND&msanumber=7800) playing fast and loose with the definition of "brew pub?" They also have a listing for brew pubs in Mishawaka (http://www.chowbaby.com/searchbrewpubs.asp?city=MISHAWAKA&msanumber=7800) where your hard-earned money may be better used.

S.

[threecb]

I completely agree with everyone else. The manager made the biggest mistake by not speaking with you directly. I think steveh is right in believing that the manager was hiding from an unhappy customer. Someone like that doesn't understand an important aspect of his job is customer satisfaction.
Definitely speak to the GM or owner, and let us know the outcome. And name names. We praise the good places here, we should caution of the bad. Mention this site to the general manager, and that you participate here with members all over the world. Tell them that you'd be happy to report to us a satisfactory resolution to your problem!

[Bruno_78]

It was my own fatigue last night that made me forget to name the pub. It was Mishawaka Brewing Company. This is the only brewery within about forty miles, even then, the closest one isnt' worth visiting. Prankasaur and I have posted about that one

here (http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4065&highlight=duneland)

Three floyds is about an hour and a half, Bell's is about 2 hours, and Chicago is about two hours, those would be our next closest breweries. We have a couple bars with a large beer selection, but nothing to get excited about.

I too am surprised like steve that there are no other brew pubs around here. In fact, I just posted last night on a similar topic about starting my own brewery (http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4220) . Please let me know what you guys think.

Well, i'm going to make a call to the manager as soon as they open, so I'll let you know the outcome.

[newportstorm]

The manager was too busy? Doing what - attending to other pissed off customers? That's bullshit. I'd have told the waitress that I would wait until the manager was less busy or go and find him yourself. If all else fails, throw down some $$ for your meal and beers, minus the cost of the bad ones, and walk out. You want to tip the waitress? Put it in her hand. Though, if I sat down at a full-service pub and sat and waited 10 minutes before anyone acknowledged me, I'd say the waitstaff isn't working that hard and doesn't really deserve that "generous tip" you gave.

Business, in essence is all about customer service. The product that brings in the customers and thier cash just happens to be beer or paper clips or bird seed...whatever. I've been to a place exactly like the one you describe. O'Briens Pub in Newport, RI. My two visits were eerily similar to yours. I blasted the place on BeerAdvocate's BeerFly and will never be back - not even if they start a cask night or stock rare Belgian lambics. Thanks - ya got me all worked up! :D

Cheers!

[brewmonkey]

That is piss poor management and unexcusable. Nothing is so important that a manager could not take a few minutes to see to the guest. On the off chance there was something they should have at least introduced themself, gathered some contact information and called you to help fix the problem.

You should contact the GM or Owner and let them know what happened,

[Richard English]

Quote "...You should contact the GM or Owner and let them know what happened..."

What customers often forget that it is not simply their right to complain, it is their duty. They owe an obligation both to the organisation and to its customers to give them information about sub-standard service so that something can be done about it.

After all, the upper levels of management will probably have no idea of the way in which operational staff are behaving unless their customers tell them.

Write a letter - I always do so. You might be surprised at the result.

[Bruno_78]

Well I spoke with the GM. You guys are going to flip.

First of all, I should let you know that Tuesday nights are one of their busiest nights because of the drink special they offer.

She told me that Tuesdays are a completely different night at the brewery because they're busier, and that customers should be a little more tolerant those nights.

Second, on several occassions throughout the conversation, she said that ten minutes did not seem that long to wait for service, this was after I had informed her that on the previous visit we had waited 15 minutes, and ended up leaving.

Third, apparantly there was only one manager on duty at the exact time we were there. She is also the bartender, which I knew, but there was another girl behind the bar pouring beers, too. Apparantly, the manager/bartender doesn't have time for anything else on Tuesday nights.

Fourth, She informed me that they don't usually comp any beers if someone complains. She said that if some "kid" in the bar complains (and I'm paraphrasing all this of course) they don't usually take it seriously. My response was that being a regular customer, both of the brewery/pub and of the Homebrew supply store, and being a member of the homebrew club that meets at their establishment on a monthly basis, I would hope that my opinion might be taken a little more seriously than some "kid".

I also conveyed to her that I felt it was inappropriate for the waitress to feel she had to buy our beer for us.

I also told her that I was not telling her this just for the sake of complaining, but to better their service. I told her that I like the brewery, their beers, and would like to see the business flourish, and that I don't want to see this happen to other customers.

I'm very discouraged about this, mostly because I don't have anywhere else local to go for beer, and brewing supplies. I honestly don't want to go back there, but I don't know what to do.

She apologized and said she would tell her girls to "stay on their toes", but I was really expecting her to be a little more caring.

I think I'm going to write a letter to the owner.

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by Richard English
Quote "...You should contact the GM or Owner and let them know what happened..."

What customers often forget that it is not simply their right to complain, it is their duty. They owe an obligation both to the organisation and to its customers to give them information about sub-standard service so that something can be done about it.

After all, the upper levels of management will probably have no idea of the way in which operational staff are behaving unless their customers tell them.

Write a letter - I always do so. You might be surprised at the result.

Exactly. Having been in the business for 10 years with most of them in management I can tell you that we do not see everything. It is nice (if that makes sense) to recieve guest feedback, both positive and negative. In a lot of the negative cases it was our first time hearing about the issue. We cannot fix that which we do not know is broken.

My original response can even be expanded into a couple of issues. It is entirely possible they got smoke blown up their butts by the server. I have seen this happen in the past. She may have screwed up (not visible to the guest) and going to the manager while the guest is still present could mean her job.

In the case of the server "paying" for the drinks. This is an old scam run by waitstaff. They claim they have taken care of it leaving the guest feeling somewhat guilty so they leave a bigger tip. Once the guest has left the server then goes to the manager and tells them they need something voided of a ticket, in a lot of cases managers do not question it either.

I know those are may sound absurd, but I have seen it happen in more then 1 restaurant where I have worked.

I would also remind people that when they recieve service above and beyond it is their duty to inform the manager of it. Often times managers do not see or know about it. The restaurant can be a busy place and betwen the floor, bar & kitchen the manager cannot see/know everything.

[chazwicke]

Customer happiness is my highest priority. Because when they are happy everything else falls in line. Even though we have well over 250 clients locally and nationally, Most know that they can call me directly with any questions or concerns. I will always take a call from the customer. Customer service is of ultimum importance and that is why my business has been successful.

[newportstorm]

Dude, she blew you off. Don't let her. Is she as high as it gets at this place? If not, push on to the next level.

If you still don't get any satisfaction, don't set foot in there until you do. Sounds like your options are limited, but think of the alternative. Would you rather continue to go there, pay to be shit on, support this poor service with your hard-earned cash and know it?! I'm not trying to stir the pot - just telling you what you probably already know. Feel free to post accurate reviews of your experience on other sites (BeerAdvocate's Beerfly, Pubcrawler, etc.).

As far as beer goes, keep on homebrewing - may have to bump up the production, now. Look around for other suppliers - order on-line if you have to. Trade for good beers or stock up when you make a road trip. Don't cave and continue to give this place your $$ though. My $0.02

Cheers!

[Richard English]

Quote "...Customer service is of ultimum importance and that is why my business has been successful..."

I agree. Which reminds me - are you going to buy me a pint next week at the GBBF?

[MeridianFC]

Originally posted by Bruno_78
Well I spoke with the GM. You guys are going to flip.

First of all, I should let you know that Tuesday nights are one of their busiest nights because of the drink special they offer.

She told me that Tuesdays are a completely different night at the brewery because they're busier, and that customers should be a little more tolerant those nights.

Etc., Etc., Etc.


Do not go back.

The correct reply to you, since you've taken time out of your busy day to contact them (which is in their best interest), is:

I'm sorry sir, it won't happen again and I'll see that we tighten things up on Tuesday nights. Realize we are very busy that night owing to a drink special we run but that's no excuse. Your custom is important to us.

Please come back and have two free pints on me.

Cost to the brew pub = $20.00 (I'll guess pints are $5.00.ea, two that should be comped, two given by manager)

Potential profit from loyal/repeat business = can not be calculated

Why would anyone frequent a place that shows such disprespect for the paying customer? According to your discription it's not nectar flowing from the taps either.

Sounds like a recipe for business success to me.

[brewmonkey]

Not sure where you are drinking but $5 a pint is WAY TO MUCH! Not sure I would go to a place that is that expensive.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by brewmonkey
Not sure where you are drinking but $5 a pint is WAY TO MUCH! Not sure I would go to a place that is that expensive.

Maybe in the Midwest, where this happened, $5 is too much. But hit up any east coast city like Boston, Philly, NYC, etc. and $5 is about on par (or even a good deal). Cheapest I've ever seen at a brewpub is $2.50 at McNeill's in Brattleboro, VT where they don't have a lot of overhead or amenities...or deodorant :p j/k - great beer!

Even my locals here in RI are about $3.75-4.00 - add a $1 tip and there you go.

Cheers!

[threecb]

Originally posted by newportstorm
Cheapest I've ever seen at a brewpub is $2.50 at McNeill's in Brattleboro, VT

I was there on Friday -- $3.00 is the cheapest now. And to me, living half way between Philly and NYC, that's cheap! my local is 4-4.50 a pint. In NY, I've payed as much as 6.50 for a beer!

As for the GM's response, that's ridiculous. Seems like the higher up you go, the more you see that poor service is what this place is about. Still, I'd go up to the owner's after this. A letter recounting everything is the way to go, along with a phone call.

I've had a similar experience and the owner took care of the situation and comped me a complete dinner for 2. They ended up with a customer for life because of that.

Good luck, Bruno.

[Bruno_78]

The beers here are $4 - 4.50/pint, they're good but not the best I've had.

I really feel like I've been blown off, too. This is sad, the more I think about it, the more upset I get.

[steveh]

Originally posted by brewmonkey
Not sure where you are drinking but $5 a pint is WAY TO MUCH! Not sure I would go to a place that is that expensive.

It's a pretty common price in and around Chicago these days. Inflation rears its ugly head, with greed following right behind. About 10 years ago I heard that it cost a brew-pub around .25 a pint (16 oz) to brew - and pubs were charging $3.50 back then.

S.

[Richard English]

Quote "...Originally posted by brewmonkey
Not sure where you are drinking but $5 a pint is WAY TO MUCH! Not sure I would go to a place that is that expensive..."

When I was in Chicago, Two Brothers was $6 a pint (Imperial) which is expensive by UK standards, even allowing for the fact that dollars are cheap for us right now. A reasonably priced pub in London would charge around £2 - £2.50 for an Imperial pint and some even less. I was drinking Harvey's Mild last night at £1.90 for an Imperial pint.

Having said which, the Mac's, where the Two Bothers was $6 were charging $3 for a bottle of Budweiser - which is very nearly as much when the volumes are equated.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Bruno_78
First of all, I should let you know that Tuesday nights are one of their busiest nights because of the drink special they offer.

Boo - hoo - hoo.

She told me that Tuesdays are a completely different night at the brewery because they're busier, and that customers should be a little more tolerant those nights.

Bull. Would they rather have the alternative -- and close their doors?

I would hope that my opinion might be taken a little more seriously than some "kid".

Pretty freaking condescending, if you ask me. I'd have gone completely Philip Marlowe wiseass at that point and said everyone in my brew club is going to hear this story and we'll be discussing a new venue to hold our meetings. After that, we'll be telling every beer drinker we know in a 45 mile radius about your lousy customer service, arrogant attitude, and obvious lack of any ambition for further success as a business.

Are any of those links I posted near you, serving good beer, and available for club meetings?

S.

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by steveh
It's a pretty common price in and around Chicago these days. Inflation rears its ugly head, with greed following right behind. About 10 years ago I heard that it cost a brew-pub around .25 a pint (16 oz) to brew - and pubs were charging $3.50 back then.

S.

When I calculated just raw materials for our pub my cheapest ones were coming in about .15 cents and most expensive ones coming in around .50 cents. All our beers cost the same (including Barleywines and Imperial Stouts) and that was $3 when I left.

In KC you might see higher prices for beer but that is in bars abd not the pubs. Most of the pubs in the area are right around the $3 mark give or take .50 cents.

[Bruno_78]

There are other bars that would want to have us, however, it has been discussed that we may just have meetings at club member's house's. Which would be fine with me.

[YamahaXS]

Sounds like the pub has some serious management problems, BUT to play devils advocate, there is a good chance that the waitress was managing the whole situation for her benefit.

She may have planned to take the beers off your tab after you paid.


Sounds like your brewpub needs to be avoided for a while. I would consider writing a letter to the owner(s) and cc the GM.

[YamahaXS]

and another thought:

I have found that 'negotiating' (thats what it is really...you want 2 things: 1) an satifisactory response to the particular incident and 2) you want your brewpub to improve its customer service overall.) is better accomplished through persistent, but easy going and rational arguement. Getting mad or irate will not diffuse the situation. Explain that you are trying to help them be a better business and also trying to address your unsatisfactory experience. Keep calm, and do not agree to any response that is less than what you want.


At last resort, nicely ask to whom you should address your letter too.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Richard English
Quote "...Customer service is of ultimum importance and that is why my business has been successful..."

I agree. Which reminds me - are you going to buy me a pint next week at the GBBF?

Sadly, no. I was poised to reserve a free ticket yesterday in Business Class. ( I have plenty of miles) and was looking at lodging online when my wife cleverly told me "go ahead and go " and then proceeded to illustrate why I should not. She talked me out of it. I will be out of my office the week after the GBBF already and could not cancel that at this late time. The reality is it is my fault for not booking months ago. And I am angry with myself about it. So now I am angry and envious! Enjoy it Richard. I am sad to be missing it. I'll drown my sorrows in Conniston BCA.

[chazwicke]

Bruno, Perhaps when you email the owner and cc the manager You should provide a link to this thread. Then they might see what damage they have already done by not handling this correctly. Also possibly they could respond on the thread. Just a thought.

[Richard English]

Shame!

I'll just have to drink all those 400 barrels of cask-conditioned beers myself, then.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Richard English
I'll just have to drink all those 400 barrels of cask-conditioned beers myself, then.

Will me your Rolls, would'ja? ;)

S.

[wortchillergoal]

Brewmonkey made a good point about the waitress may be trying to out smart her boss. I would think they would want to check that out and see if they had a bad apple.

If she was telling the truth and the manager made her pay for the beers, they could be in violation of labor laws. Y ou might want to suggest you might be calling the labor board or telling their wait staff it might be a good idea.

To play dirty, get a large number of people to go in early on a Tue to use up a lot of seating space. Everyone should order one drink and sit for an hour or two. A move like that should upset both customers and waitstaff and perhaps help to get your point across.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Richard English
Shame!

I'll just have to drink all those 400 barrels of cask-conditioned beers myself, then.

Believe me, I'm there with you in spirit.

[Bruno_78]

Here is a draft of what I intend to send to the owners of the brewery. Please let me know what you think.

------------------------------------------

Dear Tom and Barbara,

I am writing this letter in reference to a troubling visit to your establishment Tuesday, July 27th. Upon being seated, we proceeded to wait ten minutes before begin greeted by a server. After receiving our beer (Sunrise Ale), we noticed that something was wrong. Either we were served the wrong beer, or something went awry with that batch. Both my friend and I noticed the peculiarity. We sent the beer back and order the IPA instead. This beer was much better.

When we received our bill, the original beer was still being charged to us. When we asked for it to be removed, the waitress told us that her manager would not allow her to do so. We then asked to see the manager. Our waitress returned again and informed us that the manager was too busy to tend to us and the she, the waitress, had paid for our beer.

I spoke with your general manager about the issues and her responses were as follows.

She doesn’t believe that 10 minutes is too long to wait for service. She informed me that Rick had tasted the same beer that day and it was fine. It was explained to me that you don’t take beers off of bills because we’re already getting a good price for the beer on Tuesday, and also that you can’t give away free beer to just anyone who complains. As far as the manager tending to us, she said that it’s really a lot different on Tuesdays and that she probably just did not have the time.

Let me give a little background about myself. I have bee a patron of your brewery for about 5 years. I brew my own beer at home and frequent your home brew shop regularly. I am also a
member of the home brew club that meets at your establishment on a monthly basis.

Now, let me describe my feelings about each of these problems.

Waiting ten minutes to be served:
This is the second time in as many visits that this has happened. The first time we waited 15 minutes, got up and left. Contrary to your general managers opinion, this is entirely too long to wait. Honestly, It’s not the restaurant’s place to decide how long is too long; it’s the customer’s.

Problems with the beer:
This beer is almost exclusively the only beer I’ve consumed at the brewery since it became available. I really enjoy the centennial hops used in this brew; however, the flavor and aroma were non-existent. I would hope that the opinion of a regular customer might carry a little more weight than just some random customer. A beer being removed from a bill is a small price to pay when you consider how much a regular customer may spend in the future.

Manager too busy:
This is just absurd! Speaking as someone in a management position, I have to say that this is a primary task of a manger. Customer service should not suffer just because of a busy night. If she can’t take care of a customer, then what is the point of having a manager on duty?

Your general manager apologized and said she would let the wait staff know to “tighten up” a little. But I feel her general attitude was very lackadaisical, almost to the point where I should have felt it was my fault for expecting these things on a Tuesday night. I hope that your response is different, as I enjoy your restaurant and your beers, and would like to see your business flourish. I am not writing this letter for the sake of complaining or receiving free product in the future. But, simply to inform you of problems you might not be seeing. I would appreciate it if you could contact me about these issues. I can be reached at 315-1233 in the evenings or 299-4990 during the day.

Thank you for your time, and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

[Richard English]

It looks good to me. It's the kind of letter I would write; it states the facts, it states your feelings, it alerts those in charge to the problem and it makes some sensible suggestions for improvement.

One or two minor typos that you'll probably already have spotted but that aside it's excellent.

Send it.

[threecb]

It outlines your situation very thoroughly. Nicely handled. The only thing I would add would be that you spoke to the GM the following day, otherwise it may seem like you spoke to her the same night.

[steveh]

Originally posted by YamahaXS
is better accomplished through persistent, but easy going and rational arguement. Getting mad or irate will not diffuse the situation.

In order to add some background for members who haven't had the pleasure to meet Bruno; he appears to be a very easy-going, calm, rational, intelligent, person. Not the type to loose his cool or his temper when in a situation such as this.

S.

On the other hand, the minute I realize I'm being talked down to, I become a smart-ass! ;)

[Bruno_78]

Well, the email is off. We'll see if I get a response.

[chazwicke]

Good job! Keep us posted.

[Beaver]

Nice letter, Bruno! Can't wait to hear the response.

[Bruno_78]

Originally posted by steveh
In order to add some background for members who haven't had the pleasure to meet Bruno; he appears to be a very easy-going, calm, rational, intelligent, person. Not the type to loose his cool or his temper when in a situation such as this.

S.

On the other hand, the minute I realize I'm being talked down to, I become a smart-ass! ;)



I would have to agree with all this. I'm also good looking and rich! Yeah right! Honestly, I don't get irate or angry usually. Upset, angered, agitated, etc., now that's another thing.

[fretlessman71]

If this is an email, consider sending them a link to this thread so they can see they're already getting a bad rep from someone who really knows what they're talking about...

[chazwicke]

I agree and I think I suggested this earlier in the thread. A little bit of service would have prevented all of the damage that has been done to their reputation already.

[fretlessman71]

That's right... chaz gets the credit for this one. I merely 2nded the motion! :)

[Bruno_78]

Gosh Darnit!

I was going to include that too and I forgot all about it!

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
That's right... chaz gets the credit for this one. I merely 2nded the motion! :)

Great minds.......?

Well yours maybe, Certainly not mine!

[Richard English]

Since the topic of this thread is customer service, let me tell you about my own experience.

I went into the station bar at Charing Cross (that's one of London's main line rail stations) and grabbed a quick pint od Bass. It was warm but I didn't have time to return it as I had a train to catch. However, I did fill in a customer service card and sent it off.

Within a couple of days I had a letter from the customer relations lady who told me that she had investigated the matter and discovered that the cooler was faulty that afternoon (the bar has no cellar) and the Bass should not have been served.

However, she was sorry that I had been disappointed but hoped that I'd use the bar again. As compensation she send me a voucher for £5 (enough for two pints) and thanked me very much for having brought the matter to her attention.

Frankly the apology would have been more than enough - and guess how many pints I've drunk in that bar since? And how many people I've told.

[chazwicke]

One of my employees had a similiar experience in the ESPZone in DC. She had horrible service and terrible food. She wrote to the company and they sent an apology and coupons for two free dinners. She went back and it was terrific. And she told all of us in my office and now recommends the place. I've never been though as it is not my usual type of dinner venue or pub.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Great minds.......?

Well yours maybe, Certainly not mine!
A friend of mine used to always say, "Great minds think alike, and so do ours!" ;)

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by Richard English
Frankly the apology would have been more than enough - and guess how many pints I've drunk in that bar since? And how many people I've told.

Exactly, Richard! Had the same thing happen with a sixer of Smuttynose Belgian White several years ago. Horribly sour with huge sediment in it. Not cloudy and tart like it should be. Sent an email to them alerting them of a possible problem and got a response from Peter Egelston (the owner) asking for any unopened bottles to have the QC dept. test them (didn't have any as I trashed them all) and offered me a free case of their new (at the time) Robust Porter. I took him up on the offer and have been an avid Smuttynose fan since - will be for life.

They've made $$ off of me, my friends, people I tell in forums like this and who knows how many others. Great brewery.

Cheers!

[Bruno_78]

Originally posted by Richard English

Frankly the apology would have been more than enough - and guess how many pints I've drunk in that bar since? And how many people I've told.


Why couldn't they be that cordial in my situation?

I still haven't received a reply.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by newportstorm
Exactly, Richard! Had the same thing happen with a sixer of Smuttynose Belgian White several years ago. Horribly sour with huge sediment in it. Not cloudy and tart like it should be. Sent an email to them alerting them of a possible problem and got a response from Peter Egelston (the owner) asking for any unopened bottles to have the QC dept. test them (didn't have any as I trashed them all) and offered me a free case of their new (at the time) Robust Porter. I took him up on the offer and have been an avid Smuttynose fan since - will be for life.

They've made $$ off of me, my friends, people I tell in forums like this and who knows how many others. Great brewery.

Cheers!

I just purchased 2 bombers of Smuttynose Big A IPA this afternoon. :D

[Richard English]

Quote "...Why couldn't they be that cordial in my situation?

I still haven't received a reply..."

It is common belief in the UK that the USA takes greater pride in its customer service than do we.

One reason that is frequently cited is that tipping, at a far higher level than is the case in the UK, is common in the the USA and the suggestion is that staff work harder to try to earn their tips. This saga makes me wonder quite how true that really is.

As most of you will know, tipping is unknown in English pubs and even in restaurants 10% is considered quite adequate.

[Bruno_78]

Richard, From my observations over the last several years, customer service in general in our country, or at least in the midwest, seems to be going downhill. It's as if no one even cares any more. I can't tell you how many times I've seen customers go back to a business and compain that they received the wrong product ( mostly at fast food restaurants) and the staff begins to argue with the customer that they in fact ordered what they received. Why argue? What ever happend to the customer always begin right?

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by Bruno_78
What ever happend to the customer always begin right?

Well, that old adage is one of the silliest on record. The customer is not always right and caving in to every customer is not a good way to do business. Some customers will simply never be happy and sometimes it's best for a business to just sever ties and lose a bit of $$. Your sanity is worth more than these customers will ever pay you.

However, in your situation a couple of free pints, or in the example you gave, a couple of free burgers is not unreasonable and should be done without batting an eye. More often than not, a customer will ask for less than what the business would offer them for compensation (most of us just want a thank you/apology/the item we ordered). It's business negotiating - let the customer make the first offer.

I hope the pub responds to you soon with a serious reply. Good luck.

Cheers!

[Bruno_78]

I really thought I would get a response today, as I sent the email first thing this morning. My frustration level is rising.

[DreamWeaver]

I don't think I'd let it get under my skin too much. Give them another chance. Try to handle the matter diplomatically. In my younger days I may have caused a scene there & then but since time has gone by, don't let it eat ya. Any drama overshadows the point. My advice nowa days is be cool, a few years ago I woulda helped ya wreck the joint, but where would we be then? In trouble. Relax.
I'll be up in August, if they don't fix things I'll help ya trash the place. NOT,... OK maybe... you don't want that do ya? Of course not. But I will be available. You buyin? HAHAHAHA

[Bruno_78]

when are you coming in august? Absolutely, I'll buy.

[DreamWeaver]

I have In-Laws/outlaws to visit & I gotta visit in the middle of August. Let me know if we are trashin & I'll bring my full leathers. Sounds tough huh? I'll be cool till somebody pisses me off! OK , don't be alarmed, I'm a wuss... nevermind... :)

[O2 Mash]

Originally posted by DreamWeaver
My wife managed a bar and once I saw her toss 4 bikers out of a pool hall cuzz they pee'd on the floor! The Brown Jug on RT 127 & RT47 in Ohio.

Sounds like a lovely place :D

[Richard English]

Quote "...What ever happend to the customer always begin right?
..."

As has been said already, this old adage was never correct and sometimes created more problems than it solved. Its intention was to make sales staff realise that customers are important since it is they who pay the staff's wages - but taken too far it can create domineering customers who bully submissive sales staff.

The slogan I prefer, and that I use on my sales-training courses, is: "The customer may not always be right, but the customer is always the customer".

In other words, treat the customer with the respect that a customer deserves but accept that there may be times when you will not agree.

[Bruno_78]

I got a reply from the brewery this morning. Here it is.

-----------------------------------------------

Dear Bill,

We are sorry that you did not enjoy your visit to the brewery Tuesday night. No excuses. The server will be repaid for the beer she covered for you. I believe that Tami, my daughter-in-law, did apologize to you but we will apologize here again. And my son, Rick, did reconfirm that the current batch of Sunrise meets our standards.

Tom & Barbara Schmidt

-----------------------------------------------

What about the other issues? The manager? Waiting so long for service, on TWO visits? I think the owners somewhat blew me off. I appreciate their apologies. But quite frankly, I don't know that this would make me go back again. I know what I would have done if I were in their shoes, and this isn't it. Maybe I'm a PITA customer?

[threecb]

I dunno. Awfully noncommittal if you ask me, even if they did say "no excuses". You got an apology, but not much else. You're not a PITA customer, but they may view you as one, judging from the response.

I'd hesitate before going back again. What a shame.

[Steve16823]

Originally posted by Bruno_78
I got a reply from the brewery this morning. Here it is.

What about the other issues? The manager? Waiting so long for service, on TWO visits? I think the owners somewhat blew me off. I appreciate their apologies. But quite frankly, I don't know that this would make me go back again. I know what I would have done if I were in their shoes, and this isn't it. Maybe I'm a PITA customer?


I think you've done as much as you can do, Bruno. Plus, you've discovered the root cause of why you were mistreated in the first place -- they have a problem with customer service that starts at the very top of their organization. It's obvious that even the owners of the establishment essentially see their customers as a nuisance, so it's no wonder than the managers feel the same way. In their eyes, you are a PITA. In the end, it will be their loss.

This thread reminds me of something I remember reading a long while ago regarding customer service. A group of market researchers did a study on how easy it was to return merchandise to a variety of stores. Posing as consumers, they would attempt to return merchandise in obviously poor condition, without a reciept, to the wrong store, or a combination of all of the above. Predictably, there were a wide variety of results.

However, one upscale-clothing store refunded them $50 for an article of clothing that clearly wasn't purchased at the store and for that matter wasn't even a product or brand they sold. They returned later to question the manager about his overly-liberal return policy, and the manager replied something to the effect of: "I'd rather have a happy customer standing in my store with $50 than send an unhappy one back on the street"

[Richard English]

It is a little casual, I agree. I don't think that you're a PITA but you need to decide how far to take this.

You have had an apology and an explanation about the beer and I would be inclined to give them another chance. If you again get poor service then you can write once more to the owners and, with considerable justification, make the point again.

One problem that all bosses have is that of balancing the legitimate needs of their customers against the legitimate needs of their staff. Bosses must support their staff and it would have been wrong to have apportioned blame, I feel.

Having said which, a slightly more fulsome apology and the offer of a free pint would have cost very little and have meant quite a lot - but, to be fair, some organisations do not even bother to reply (both Microsoft and Rolls-Royce have failed to reply to one of my complaints).

[Bruno_78]

unhappy customers can do more damage than thousands in advertising can make up for. Our return policy is pretty liberal, with electrical items being the exception. I have returned items from other stores before, as long at it was an item we carried. I think the manager in the above example might have been a little excessive, but it got the job done.

[Bruno_78]

I sent them another message thanking them for the reply, and for the apologies. I'm placing an order for grains from them because their so cheap, and I'll probably go back again, but my expectations will certainly be lowered.