last call for chicago-area beer drinkers [Archive]

steveh

07-15-2004, 06:15 AM

Originally posted by Bruno_78
And where's the map room that I've seen mentioned here a couple times?

http://www.maproom.com/ It's north and slightly west of where you're staying - Piece Restaurant and Brewery is not far from the Map Room too (1927 W. North Ave).

A few blocks east of your hotel is the Berghoff restaurant (17 W. Adams) - not the best German food in the city, nor even the best beer, but it has the greatest of old-world - and old Chicago atmosphere.

Here's a list of some great beer bars in and around the city, though don't expect all of the beers you see on this list as this was the line-up for the R.A.F. back in March: Participating Pubs (http://www.realalefestival.com/radpubs.html)

This is a great web-site for finding stuff in Chi: Metromix (http://metromix.chicagotribune.com/)

I don't know about anyone else, but Sunday afternoon at Goose works about the best for me, but throw out some ideas - I'm pretty flexible these days.

S.

Kalleh1

07-15-2004, 08:26 AM

Frankly, I don't much like the Rock Bottom. If feels too much like a downtown cafe to me, rather than a pub. Besides, the last time I was there, they were out of cask conditioned beer, and the bartenders knew of no where to find it. They had us ask some of their customers, who were more knowledgeable than they.

I do like the Clark Street Ale House (I think it is in the 700 block of Clark Street, though don't quote me!). It has great cask conditioned beer (though, call first! They, too, have been out when we have been there), and as Richard will verify, it is probably more like an English pub than any other bar in this area. The bartenders know a lot, and the atmosphere is great. While someone (studentofbeer?) posted that it gets crowded and smokey on Saturday nights, we were there recently with a British friend, and it was delightful. However, they were out of cask conditioned beer!

BTW, The W is a great Hotel...overlooking the lake. Be SURE to see our new Millenium Park and "the Bean" sculpture. It will open this Friday.

My husband and I will be at the Clark Street Ale House on Saturday night at about 9 p.m. if any of you would like to join. I am short and blond and my husband is Jewish looking....how's that for a description? :)

steveh

07-15-2004, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by Kalleh1
BTW, The W is a great Hotel...overlooking the lake. Be SURE to see our new Millenium Park and "the Bean" sculpture. It will open this Friday.

There are 2 "W" hotels, City Center (where Mr. Bruno has his reservations) being on West Adams, near the river - unfortunately, with no view of "the bean." ;)

S.

studentofbeer

07-15-2004, 11:38 AM

im definitely up for anything, though a sunday goose tour sounds fine. map room is another place id love to hit before i leave.

oh and i was recently at clark street for a pint of two hearted on hand pull. it tasted quite a bit different than the bottle version (less overt hoppiness) but was oh so good. i agree, it's a good bar.

chazwicke

07-15-2004, 11:53 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kalleh1
[B]y.

My husband and I will be at the Clark Street Ale House on Saturday night at about 9 p.m. if any of you would like to join. I am short and blond

An attractive, short, blond would be more accurate. ;) Enjoy your trip to Vermont. You will be just missing the Vermont Brewers Festival though.

http://www.vermontbrewers.com/festival.html

steveh

07-15-2004, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by studentofbeer
im definitely up for anything, though a sunday goose tour sounds fine. map room is another place id love to hit before i leave.

I'm up for either, or - for anyone who's keeping track, but I don't think I can swing 2 trips into the city for beer in as many days!

Boy, that Two Hearted is sure inviting, though...

I just checked the Map Room web site and current tap offerings (as of July, 8 - that is) are - you ready folks? Hang onto your hats!

• Allagash White Beer From Portland, Maine, an excellent Belgian-style wheat beer brewed with a special blend of spices
• Anchor Liberty Ale Perhaps America's first Cascade-accented pale ale is still one of the best-balanced
• Binding BBK Märzen A very drinkable malt-accented German lager
• Belhaven Wee Heavy A rich, malty ale from Scotland
• Bosteels Tripel Karmeliet A strong, sweet Belgian trippel
• Cantillon Bruocsella 1900 Grand Cru A three year old barrel-aged straight lambic from Belgium
• DeKoninck Bolleke A classic Belgian session ale
• Delirium Tremens (Brouwerij Huyghe Melle) A state of fevered agitation, trembling of the appendages, hallucination and troubled consciousness attributable to alcoholic intoxication. Also a delicious Belgian golden ale ... cheers!!!
• Dupont Saison A crisp, refreshing-yet-sustaining country ale
• Founder's Old Dirty Bastard Scottish Ale Lots of malt and alcohol round out this fantastic sipper from Grand Rapids, MI
• Fuller's ESB A classic English bitter
• Great Lakes Elliot Ness A strongish, amber Vienna-style lager
• Guinness Stout The world famous dry stout
• Maredsous 8 (Duvel Moortgat) A Belgian abbey ale
• North Coast Pranqster A floral, fruity Belgian-Style Golden Ale
• North Coast Red Seal Ale A beautifully balanced American pale ale
• Poperings Hommelbier Hommel is the local word for hops, and the village from which this beer hails is in the heart of the Belgian hop-growing region. This strong golden beer is almost twice as hoppy as any other Belgian ale.
• Reissdorf Kolsch A crisp, dry, summer drinkable golden ale from Germany
• Sierra Nevada Brown Ale This is a great brown ale. It's not the English style - this brew has hops.
• Sprecher Black Bavarian A German-style dark lager from Wisconsin
• Stiegl Pils A delicious Pilsner-style from Salzburg, Austria
• Three Floyds Alpha King A dry-hopped American pale ale
• Three Floyds Gumball Head A summer wheat ale that's all hopped-up
• Val-Dieu Brune A delicious abbey-style brown ale
• Verhaeghe Echte Kriek A Belgian ale brewed with cherries
• Wurzburger Julius Echter A classic German wheat beer

And
• 2 Brothers Bitter-End Pale Ale CC on the hand pump! I just called them...

S.

Richard English

07-15-2004, 01:33 PM

Oh how I wish I were able to be there!

In enjoyed my trip to Chicago so much and I am really looking forward to coming again.

On Saturday night I will be at our annual road party - where all the residents gather in the circle in the centre of our cul-de-sac and we drink and talk and catch up on what's happened in the past year. I will, though, be thinking of you and of the Clark Street Ale House (and hoping they don't run out of beer again!)

Bruno_78

07-15-2004, 05:31 PM

We're actually coming into town for the weekend because of the millenium park opening. They're doing a taping of the NPR news quiz show "wait, wait, don't tell me" on sunday morning. The beer thing is just secondary (at least that's what I told her!).

Sounds like we'll be able to hit clark st. saturday night, so we'll look for you kalleh, an (attractive) blond with a jewish looking husband...

Only thing is I promised here that we'd watch the fireworks at navy peir saturday night, around 10:00pm maybe.

We'll be at goose on sunday, and then if anyone wants to we could hit the map room after that possibly. I'm all for making the most of the weekend as far as beer goes.

BluesHarp

07-15-2004, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by Bruno_78

blues, next year you'll have to give us advance warning about that event, I've heard nothing of it.

Will do...might make for a nice bike ride. It is about a two to two-and-a-half hour ride from my house taking the scenic country route...I'm not big on freeway riding if I can help it.

Here is this year's event:

Brews N Blues (http://www.oshkoshjaycees.org/bnb.htm)

steveh

07-15-2004, 06:05 PM

I just checked the Map Room web site and current tap offerings

Has it sunk in on anyone what I said that about that list? Yes, on TAP!

Bruno, the Goose tour and tasting lasts until about 5:00, it might be a little late on a Sunday for a pub crawl! However, Starting at the Map Room might be an idea... ;)

S.

studentofbeer

07-15-2004, 06:58 PM

im leaning towards a map room vote, as im thinking my work may be taking me to goose friday on my last day. not that there's any such thing as too much goose, but yes that list is impressive to say the least.

PaigeMe

07-15-2004, 07:20 PM

Thanks for the invite, Steve. I'd love to hang out in Chi-town for a day, but this weekend is absolutley PACKED full of stuff. A couple wine tastings, a family reunion, a going-away party, and my husband's b-day on Sun. BAH! No spare time at all. Sorry. But I'm sure you guys will have a great time! Have a brew for me!
Paige
PS - Thanks for the voicemail, Steve. :)

Bruno_78

07-15-2004, 07:41 PM

We're tied up at millenium park until 12:30. Would that give us enough time to perhaps catch lunch at the map room and then proceed to goose? By the way, we're taking the train from south bend to chicago, so we're going to be limited by public transportation. I'll have to look at the el and subway schedules.

studentofbeer

07-15-2004, 08:00 PM

only problem, the map room doesnt serve food. im sure there's a place nearby to grab a bite and bring it in tho.

im on public transportation too bruno. if you're downtown it's a very easy ride on the blue line to where the map room is.

but then to get to goose you either have to go back downtown and grab the red line or take a bus cross-town down armitage or north or something, and i dont know for sure if they run sunday. i would hope so.

wine tastings..........

also i could probably do saturday night at clark street if that was the consensus for best time.

Bruno_78

07-15-2004, 08:04 PM

I'm still trying to figure out these train maps, it's confusing to a small town boy!

Bruno_78

07-15-2004, 08:46 PM

kalleh, looks like navy pier fireworks start at 10:15, are you guys planning on being at clark st. after 11:00 or so? If so, we'll still make our way up there.

chazwicke

07-15-2004, 09:02 PM

Originally posted by steveh
Has it sunk in on anyone that I said that about that list? Yes, on TAP!

Bruno, the Goose tour and tasting lasts until about 5:00, it might be a little late on a Sunday for a pub crawl! However, Starting at the Map Room might be an idea... ;)

S.
I saw it and it sunk in immediately. I am very envious of you all. I probably just hang at the Map Room and go down the list. You all enjoy!!

Kalleh1

07-15-2004, 10:42 PM

Oh, I am so sorry to be missing the Vermont beer festival, but I will be on the search for beer while I am there. I will be renting a car so I can travel far.

And, thanks, Chaz, for the kind words!:)

We'll make it the Clark Street Ale House on Saturday at 11:00 to accommodate the fireworks. Steve, PLEASE join us! I promise; I won't bring Kristin!

[BTW, perhaps there is an appropriate thread here; I don't post much here, so I don't know. However, Americans, what are we going to do to get more cask conditioned beer in the states? This is absolutely ridiculous! We have numbers on this site. I am thinking that we should start our own form of CAMRA. There has to be a way! I am sick and tired of searching, searching and then finding that the one place that has it.... is out of their beer. ]

Richard English

07-16-2004, 03:20 AM

Quote "...We have numbers on this site. I am thinking that we should start our own form of CAMRA. There has to be a way! I am sick and tired of searching, searching and then finding that the one place that has it.... is out of their beer. ]..."

I have spoken of this previously; there are already CAMRA chapters in the USA but there should be more and they should be more active. Illinois is certainly one place where one should be started. As a CAMRA life member I can vouch for the influence that CAMRA has on pubs in the UK and that it could have in the USA.

One thing that CAMRA does is to produce, annually, the Good Beer Guide that lists those pubs that meet its members' exacting standards. There is no charge for inclusion and no pub can ask to be included. A few, a very few, pubs have been in every edition (The Buckingham Arms in Petty France is one such) but there are many that have never been included and many that are dropped.

To be in the GBG is an honour and, obviously, of great commercial benefit. The Clark Street Ale House, good though it is, would, if it were to be included in CAMRA's Illinois GBG, certainly be the recipient of a few well-chosen words from the local CAMRA member(s) were it to continue to sell sub-standard draught beer (as it did to me) or to run out of all draught beers (as I have heard has happened to others).

To propel the USA along the winding path that leads to the paradise of every pub selling good cask-conditioned beer will need more than one small push - but every small push helps.

The publication of, say, an Illinois Good Beer Guide, especially one that carries CAMRA's approval and logo, would be a fine start. And, let me remark, this is not a charitable undertaking. CAMRA makes very good money from the sale of its GBG - are there any publishers out there?

steveh

07-16-2004, 06:42 AM

Originally posted by Kalleh1
We'll make it the Clark Street Ale House on Saturday at 11:00 to accommodate the fireworks. Steve, PLEASE join us!

I don't think I'm up for a late Saturday night on the town after the events of the past week, but I'm still game for an early afternoon visit to the Map Room or the Goose tour on Sunday. Lets set a plan - sounds like Bruno is the only one with a set schedule, so we can use that as the framework - Bruno, can you give us a timeline of your activities?

what are we going to do to get more cask conditioned beer in the states?

I personally think that the Micros and Brewpubs are doing a pretty admirable job of getting cask ales to us. My guess is that your luck (or lack thereof) in finding it too late, as it were, is a result of breweries diminishing production in the summer months. Modern refrigeration aside, I think they're able to sell lighter, cleaner beers (such as Goose's Summertime and Bell's Oberon) easier in these "dog days." If my theory is sound, watch for more cask ale -- oh, right after Oktoberfest! ;)

S.

steveh

07-16-2004, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by Richard English
The publication of, say, an Illinois Good Beer Guide,

This would be my recommended start: Barfly Guide (http://www.barflynews.com/book/book.htm)

The next would be to peruse these lists: CBS (http://www.chibeer.org/cbslinks.html) Note that it's not just a list of brew-pubs, but also good Chicago beer bars - quite a few with cask ale available - at least 8 listed, by my count - add in the brew-pubs and the list climbs!

But I'll still fall back on my theory above, I think we need to wait out the change of seasons - and I'm not quite ready to let go of summer yet!

S.

Richard English

07-16-2004, 06:59 AM

Quote "...I personally think that the Micros and Brewpubs are doing a pretty admirable job of getting cask ales to us. ..."

Whereas there is much merit in what you say, remember Kalleh has been to England, and especially to London, and she knows that there are more pubs serving cask-conditioned beer in London than there are in the whole of the United States. Indeed, if the figures I have seen are correct, there are more pubs serving draught beer within a two minute walk of just about anywhere in central London than there are in the whole of Illinois.

This is not to denigrate the US craft brewers or the wonderful job they are doing but simply to say that there's a long way to go yet.

I would really like to see Real Ale consumption take off in the USA but that needs to reach critical mass - and that is a while off I fear. An Illinois CAMRA branch would be a good catalyst.

chazwicke

07-16-2004, 07:01 AM

Originally posted by Richard English
Quote "...We have numbers on this site. I am thinking that we should start our own form of CAMRA. There has to be a way! I am sick and tired of searching, searching and then finding that the one place that has it.... is out of their beer. ]..."

I have spoken of this previously; there are already CAMRA chapters in the USA but there should be more and they should be more active. Illinois is certainly one place where one should be started. As a CAMRA life member I can vouch for the influence that CAMRA has on pubs in the UK and that it could have in the USA.

One thing that CAMRA does is to produce, annually, the Good Beer Guide that lists those pubs that meet its members' exacting standards. There is no charge for inclusion and no pub can ask to be included. A few, a very few, pubs have been in every edition (The Buckingham Arms in Petty France is one such) but there are many that have never been included and many that are dropped.

To be in the GBG is an honour and, obviously, of great commercial benefit. The Clark Street Ale House, good though it is, would, if it were to be included in CAMRA's Illinois GBG, certainly be the recipient of a few well-chosen words from the local CAMRA member(s) were it to continue to sell sub-standard draught beer (as it did to me) or to run out of all draught beers (as I have heard has happened to others).

To propel the USA along the winding path that leads to the paradise of every pub selling good cask-conditioned beer will need more than one small push - but every small push helps.

The publication of, say, an Illinois Good Beer Guide, especially one that carries CAMRA's approval and logo, would be a fine start. And, let me remark, this is not a charitable undertaking. CAMRA makes very good money from the sale of its GBG - are there any publishers out there?

I too am a life member of CAMRA and I support the cause. The real problem here in the States is educating the average drinker about cask ale. Plus, I believe it will take a cultural change as well.
The drinking culture here in bars is different than in UK pubs. But It is a cause that would be worth fighting. Check out the other thread where someone has taken it upon them selves to list all establishments in the country that even sell cask ale.

Bruno_78

07-16-2004, 07:03 AM

Schedule of events for my weekend:

Saturday Night

7:00 pm - Arrive in the city, check into hotel, eat dinner

10:15 pm - be somewhere convenient where we can see the fireworks at navy pier

11:00 pm - hopefully we would be able to arrive at clark st ale house by this time

Sunday

10:00 am - 12:30 pm - Millenium Park, We might want to spend a little extra time there to check it out.

3:00pm - Would like to hit the goose tour, but have done it before so if I missed it, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Other than that, we're pretty open. Monday, she want's to go to an art museum or something cultural (like beer isn't cultural). So any suggestions would be appreciated.

steveh

07-16-2004, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by Bruno_78
We're tied up at millenium park until 12:30. Would that give us enough time to perhaps catch lunch at the map room and then proceed to goose?

Is this Sunday? As Student says, there's no food at the Map Room, but the bar tenders will often send out for food and invite patrons to get in on the order. There are also a lot of restaurants south on Damen from Armitage, as well as west on Armitage.

S.

steveh

07-16-2004, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by Richard English
Whereas there is much merit in what you say, remember Kalleh has been to England, and especially to London, and she knows that there are more pubs serving cask-conditioned beer in London than there are in the whole of the United States.

As have I, but there are probably more restaurants in the whole of Chicago serving pan pizza than all of London - point being that culture has much to do with everything. London is, and has been for centuries, the capital of cask ale - so it's to be expected there. The cask availability is growing in Chi, and progressing nicely - you discovered that for yourself!

S.

PS - Once again I'll also state that man does not live by cask ale alone - variety is the key! ;)

steveh

07-16-2004, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by chazwicke
Check out the other thread where someone has taken it upon them selves to list all establishments in the country that even sell cask ale.

Can you point us in the link's direction - that had to be a massive project!

S.

steveh

07-16-2004, 07:15 AM

Originally posted by Bruno_78
3:00pm - Would like to hit the goose tour, but have done it before so if I missed it, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Ah - hah! A chink in the armor, might the list of diverse beers at the Map Room be a swaying factor..? ;)

Other than that, we're pretty open. Monday, she want's to go to an art museum or something cultural (like beer isn't cultural). So any suggestions would be appreciated.

The Terra Museum of (Modern?) Art is always good - right on Michigan Ave, as is the Art Institute.

But I'd get your Concierge to point you in the direction of the new Randolph Street gallery district - or even the gallery district up in River North, off of Orleans St.

S.

Richard English

07-16-2004, 07:17 AM

Quote "...This would be my recommended start: Barfly Guide..."

This is partly my point about critical mass. The CAMRA GBG deals only with pubs selling Real Ale and probably only covers fewer than 10% of those. There are no special categories for different kinds of pubs although the facilities of each are given. Even so it contains details of over 5000 pubs.

The Barfly guide covers 400 bars but I wonder whether it actually says anything about the beer? Certainly it is not one of the features it mentions in its advertising plurb.

This is what CAMRA's GBG includes:

"...The best pubs in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man that serve cask-conditioned real ale in tip-top condition.

Full details of beer, food, entertainment, family facilities, history and architecture for the pub entries.

The unique Breweries section that lists all the breweries -- micro, regional and national -- that produce cask beer, with tasting notes compiled by CAMRA-trained tasting teams. There’s also information about beers suitable for vegetarians and vegans, as well as the growing number of organic beers. The Guide lists new breweries, closed breweries, mergers and takeovers, and keeps track of the new, powerful pub groups.

Plus:

CAMRA’s listing of pubs of special importance that must be saved for the nation.
The top prize-winning beers of the year.
Beer festivals to visit throughout the country..."

To start a guide, even covering the whole of the USA the main criterion of which was that the pub sold cask-conditioned beer, kept in good condition, would be to start a very small guide indeed!

Having said which, with the ease of self-publication these days and the need to produce only minimum numbers of copies there's certainly more scope than once was the case.

Richard English

07-16-2004, 07:35 AM

Quote "...there are probably more restaurants in the whole of Chicago serving pan pizza than all of London ..."

It's notoriously difficult to assess these kinds of things since, for example, do you include only those restaurants that serve only pizza or those Italians restaurants that serve pizza as well as other Italian food or those restaurants that serve pizza as one option?

According to Touchlondon, there are 172 pizza restaurants in London; how that compares with Chicago I have no idea - but that's no small total.

You can check the listings for other restaurants and other businesses here: http://www.touchlondon.co.uk/comdir/searchresults.cfm/Pizza%20Restaurants

My own experiences of the USA is that most towns and cities do very well for eating establishments (especially for breakfast places which we hardly have at all in the UK) but do far less well for decent drinking places.

And I agree, too, about the implied benefits of other beer styles - but Kalleh's point was about cask-conditioned beers.

steveh

07-16-2004, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by Richard English
According to Touchlondon, there are 172 pizza restaurants in London; how that compares with Chicago I have no idea - but that's no small total.

A quick search using a popular search engine, of the Chicago Metro area yields 1,181 restaurants specializing in pizza - and this s.e. doesn't cover everything in town! ;)

And I agree, too, about the implied benefits of other beer styles - but Kalleh's point was about cask-conditioned beers.

Understood, but my point was that, for a city whose culture didn't spawn the style and tradition, Chicago is a great source for cask ales - and it seems to be growing in popularity. Remember the neighborhood tavern with 2 beer engines? A tavern that doesn't advertise as a "beer bar," just as a tavern.

AFA decent drinking places to be had, that all depends on what you're looking for. I am never at a loss to find good beer in or around Chicago. If it were as old a beer culture as London, I'd expect as many quaint pubs. As it is, I'm happy with the old taverns - as well as the growing trend of appreciation for better beer.

S.

chazwicke

07-16-2004, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by steveh
Can you point us in the link's direction - that had to be a massive project!

S.

Yes, Here it is again:

http://www.cask-ale.co.uk/us/statemenu.html

Theakston posted it initially.

The guy is looking for help so if there are places that you know of that are not listed please let him know.

chazwicke

07-16-2004, 08:24 AM

I'll bet there are more Indian restraunts in London too.:D I love Indian food. And I also love the full English breakfast with the tomato and beans. The English sausage has always been awful though.

Bruno_78

07-16-2004, 09:03 AM

Alas! I may have a weekness, steve. That list was equally as inviting as it was impressive. You guys know the town better than I do. Can I at least get a pint glass at the Map Room to take home?

studentofbeer

07-16-2004, 09:25 AM

i didnt realize it would be an 11pm at clark street sort of thing. i dont think i can do that late of a thing, as i have a load of packing to do.

sunday sounds great. I'll give you one of my goose pints if you want to go to the map room ;) it might be a bit of a rush to do milennium park to map room to goose. goose would be fine too tho.

also if you've never been to the art institute i highly recommend it. definitely one of the greatest art museums in america.

threecb

07-16-2004, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by studentofbeer
also if you've never been to the art institute i highly recommend it. definitely one of the greatest art museums in america.

I second that. We went when we were there last year and were blown away. Awesome collection. My wife wished we had a walkman to play "Please, Please, Please Let Me Get What I Want" while looking at Seurat, a la Ferris Bueller...:cool:

steveh

07-16-2004, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by threecb
My wife wished we had a walkman to play "Please, Please, Please Let Me Get What I Want" while looking at Seurat, a la Ferris Bueller...:cool:

Now that's funny!

S.

steveh

07-16-2004, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by chazwicke
http://www.cask-ale.co.uk/us/statemenu.html

Whoa, lookit Pennsylvania in second place! Wonder what gives there? Thanks Chaz, via Theakston.

S.

steveh

07-16-2004, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by studentofbeer
sunday sounds great. I'll give you one of my goose pints if you want to go to the map room

I have quite a few duplicates I could bring you too! :D

The trouble with expecting the glass at Goose is remembering to ask!

So, what sounds like the best plan? Based on schedules, it looks like you might only get to fit one spot in Sunday afternoon Bruno - not to mention that you have the added luxury of having the next day off...

I'm neutral as I can swing a visit to either, though my lean is toward Map Room if for nothing other than the variety. What's your vote Student?

S.

studentofbeer

07-16-2004, 10:20 AM

i too would be happy at either but lean towards the map room as well, as i've spent a lot of time at goose in the past and not enough time at the map room. it's a bit less convenient for me, but that selection makes up for it.

So if Bruno is up for it I suggest a Sunday afternoon Map Room visit. If the Millenium Park thing is done at 12:30, give another 30 minutes or so for mulling around, maybe 20-30 for the el ride to the map room (it's not far but the el is slow, especially on sundays) that's around 1:30, so I'd say between 1:30 and 2 would work. As for food, we could either eat before or play it by ear when we get there.

the same plan would work for goose.

steveh

07-16-2004, 10:53 AM

Sounds good to me - ball's in your court Bruno!

S.

Bruno_78

07-16-2004, 11:38 AM

I've never been good at sports, especially ones involving balls, or courts. I'm fine with the map room. We'll probably eat breakfest before millenium park, so we'll certainly be hungry about that time.

studentofbeer

07-16-2004, 11:54 AM

so 2ish Sunday at the Map Room? And plan on finding some food in the neighborhood to bring in, or eat somewhere in the neighborhood, or eat before hand?

If you've been to goose and never been to the Map Room, you should enjoy it.

The offer is still open if anyone else can make it :cool:

studentofbeer

07-16-2004, 11:56 AM

im almost tempted to see the opening of millenium park myself (ive looked around it in various states of completion) and then go to billy goat for a double cheeseburger.... mmmm.... and then the map room. that would be a fitting chicago day. we'll see where the el takes me sunday.

Bruno_78

07-16-2004, 12:26 PM

billy goat?

steveh

07-16-2004, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by studentofbeer
The offer is still open if anyone else can make it :cool:

Yeah, Prankasaur, Deanna - we haven't heard from youse guys.

The Map Room folks may even be able to point us to one of the better new spots locally...so long as we come back for beer!

S.

Prankasaur

07-16-2004, 01:40 PM

Wow...I am off Sunday and Monday...Hmmmm

studentofbeer

07-16-2004, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by Prankasaur
Wow...I am off Sunday and Monday...Hmmmm

come! Sunday at the Map Room...think of all that great beer.....

Billy Goat-- I guess it's famous from SNL (no fries chips, no pepsi, only coke cheezburger cheezburger, etc.) but I knew it most as the one time hang out of Chicago's journalist pack, most notably Mike Royko.

It's below Michigan Avenue around Grand. pretty fun dingy little tavern. I love the cheeseburgers loaded up with pickles.

edit: Also famous for the curse put on the cubs--the owner (i can't spell his name) wanted to bring his goat into Wrigley Field, or so the story goes, but they wouldn't let him, so he put a curse on the team and that's why they haven't won since. They've been working hard this year and last to lift the curse of the goat, but Im not sure it's helping any.

steveh

07-16-2004, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by Prankasaur
Wow...I am off Sunday and Monday...Hmmmm

Oh, that's trouble! ;)

I owe you at least one beer!

S.

studentofbeer

07-16-2004, 03:06 PM

you do have an awesome avatar after all. i love bender.

steveh

07-16-2004, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by studentofbeer

Billy Goat--

It's below Michigan Avenue around Grand. pretty fun dingy little tavern. I love the cheeseburgers loaded up with pickles.
...and they only have Schlitz! :O

the owner (i can't spell his name)

Sayanas?

S.

studentofbeer

07-16-2004, 03:13 PM

Seanas? Something Greek-ish.

and Old Style! and a bunch of other crappy beer in bottles.

and even some mystery house beer on tap. Lager and Dark Lager.

steveh

07-16-2004, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by studentofbeer
and even some mystery house beer on tap. Lager and Dark Lager.

It's probably made by Huber, they do a lot of contracting - might even be the Burghoff. Boy, the last I'd heard all they had was Schlitz - of course, I could have heard that from Royko a long time ago.

S.

Kalleh1

07-16-2004, 04:41 PM

Responding to Steve's comment waaay back on page 2 about Chicago having fewer cask conditioned beers because it's summer:

Maybe, Steve (and I know this discussion should go elsewhere...sorry!), but a recent houseguest says his local pub, outside of Birmingham, has 14 cask beers going at all times. Now, come on. We ought to have more than we do! Now, I know that you enjoy all types of beer, and you probably don't mind as much. I, however, much prefer cask conditioned brews, as does my husband....and I think Chaz.

Responding to Richard's comment, again waaaay back on page 2, about starting a CAMRA in Illinois:

Richard, I just wonder if we should have our own organization. We have a whole different situation here than you do. According to their standards, for example, no place here should get high marks because they all have been out of cask conditioned beers; and my very favorite served you a cask conditioned beer that wasn't ready. Yet, for us, Clark Street Ale House is top of the line. I love that place. So, I think we are coming at it differently, and maybe CAMRA won't work for us, at least in the beginning.

Sorry to miss you, Steve. Ken and I can't drink in the afternoon and at night too! We'd be crawling down the Edens at midnight!:D

We'll see whomever on Saturday night at 11:00 p.m. at the Clark Street Ale House.

Bruno_78

07-16-2004, 08:54 PM

Did anyone notice that the map room will be closed from sunday july 18 until sunday july 25?

It's on their calendar on their site!

And go figure, just after I got all worked up about all those beers!

studentofbeer

07-16-2004, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by Bruno_78
Did anyone notice that the map room will be closed from sunday july 18 until sunday july 25?

It's on their calendar on their site!

And go figure, just after I got all worked up about all those beers!

those mother!@$%!$@#@#%^!

I was looking forward to that. Nice catch though! I'd hate to show up at the Map Room only to find it shuttered.

Alright Goose it is. I was there today and the lineup isn't bad, but not as exciting as I might like. I was not so much of a fan of the Summer's Special Bitter--it tasted a bit underfermented or having too much DMS or something in the main taste, though the finish was just about perfect for a bitter.

The Imperial Brown Ale was rather tasty.

The lineup--http://www.gooseisland.com/pubs/clybourn_list.asp

That seems right except for the addition of the imperial brown.

Let's not forget our glasses this time.

There's always also Hop Leaf ;)

chazwicke

07-16-2004, 10:15 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kalleh1
[B]Responding to Steve's comment waaay back on page 2 about Chicago having fewer cask conditioned beers because it's summer:

but a recent houseguest says his local pub, outside of Birmingham, has 14 cask beers going at all times. Now, come on. We ought to have more than we do! Now, I know that you enjoy all types of beer, and you probably don't mind as much. I, however, much prefer cask conditioned brews, as does my husband....and I think Chaz.

14 casks! that is impressive. And yes I definitely prefer cask conditioned.

Richard English

07-17-2004, 03:11 AM

Quote "...Richard, I just wonder if we should have our own organization. We have a whole different situation here than you do. According to their standards, for example, no place here should get high marks because they all have been out of cask conditioned beers;..."

Believe it or believe it not, when CAMRA was started (by just 4 men) 33 years ago many pubs in England had ripped out their beer engines and the rest were intending so to do. Many breweries had stopped real ale production and even Fullers had planned to install conical fermenters and to switch their production to lager.

"Draught" beer was begining to mean, as it meant in most of the rest of the world, a sterile, tasteless, fizzy, cold and thoroughly vile liquid. The great and long-standing tradition of British brewing was about to come to an end. That this trend was reversed is due solely to CAMRA. And, incidentally, the revival in craft beers in the USA also stems from CAMRA's influence on those who started it, if the stories I have heard are to be believed.

So don't think we have draught beer in every pub because it has always been there. In the 1960s only a couple of pubs in my home town, Reigate, had draught beer; all the rest had taps serving fizz. The Home Cottage, in Redhill, had thrown its unique pewter-plinth beer engines out and they were only rescued by chance.

Now every pub in the area has a range of draught beers, and some a huge range.

The USA is now in a similar position to the UK around forty years ago except that we were getting rid of draught beer and you're begining to get it back. So you are starting from a similar point insofar as draught beer availability is concerned but a better one insofar as the trend is concerned. We had to reverse a trend ; you have merely to strengthen one.

You could certainly start a US organisation equivalent to CAMRA - but why? CAMRA has the experience and infrastructure and could help you a great deal.

But whatever you do, don't compromise your standards. CAMRA will not continue to list pubs that do not consistently provide good beer and for that reason, good though it is, the Clark Street Ale House would have to look to its laurels. And, let's face it, it's no big deal to have a couple of ales available so that at least one is on and fit for drinking. To compromise would be to weaken your case and it's not necessary.

Of course, with the US interest in Belgian beer styles (rare in the UK although not unknown), it may be that the US branch will decide to have a special category for pubs serving only such beers. Incidentally, CAMRA does recognise as "real" beers such as the traditional Belgian and German types as well as bottle-conditioned beers. It is not against different styles; it is just against beers that are "artificially" created in the many and various ways that this can happen.

Incidentally, in case I haven't mentioned it here, at the Ardingly Vintage Vehicle show last weekend - just a vehicle show not a beer festival - the beer tent had nearly 50 (yes five zero) casks of real ale all served by hand pump or direct from the cask. All were finished by the end of the two-day show. So it is not a difficult thing for an outlet to have a range of decent beers; all that is missing in the USA is the general willingness to do it - and consumer pressure, backed by a campaign like CAMRA's, could do the job there as it has here.

Bruno_78

07-17-2004, 10:36 AM

So, just trying to confirm, we're defaulting to goose island sunday for the tour at 3:00.

We'll probably be there a little early to get a bite to eat.

studentofbeer

07-17-2004, 11:39 AM

sounds good. ill probably try to make it just before 3pm and eat a sandwich at home or something for lunch.

deanna

07-17-2004, 12:11 PM

I have tentative plans for tomorrow, but with a fellow Goose Island MBA. Plans can be changed. ;) We'll see...

Originally posted by steveh
That pretty much leaves us with this weekend...

[...]

Kalleh, Bluesharp, Deanna - Paige? Anyone up for a Sunday afternoon Goose visit?

[...]

S.

steveh

07-17-2004, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by Bruno_78
Did anyone notice that the map room will be closed from sunday july 18 until sunday july 25?

D'oh!! How dare they take a vacation when we're thirsty! Bruno - maybe you guys can make it over there tonight before they close tomorrow!

So we're back to Plan - A, Goose it is.

S.

Richard English

07-17-2004, 12:28 PM

Of course, it's evening here already - 1830 to be precise. And I'm off to join the neighbours in our annual road party.

I wish I were going to be with you but I'll raise a glass of Fuller's 1845 - or of Hogs Back T.E.A. - or of Hop Back Summer Lightning - oh what the hell - I'll raise a glass of all of them in turn.

steveh

07-17-2004, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Kalleh1
...but a recent houseguest says his local pub, outside of Birmingham, has 14 cask beers going at all times. Now, come on. We ought to have more than we do!

Part of the point that's being missed is that your friend (as is Richard) is in England - surrounded by breweries that make a style of beer that is (for the most part) the national style. In Chicago we only have a few places making the style, and much smaller places at that. If they choose to slow production of the style, whether for production or marketing purposes, we must wait.

AFA getting casks from across the pond, they just don't travel as well - especially in the warmer months. By the time they were tapped here, cask ale may take on a whole new, unfavorable aspect to you!

The way I see it, there is a great variety of beer to be had in Chicago; cask ale, Belgian, German, Irish - fresh-brewed renditions of all. I'm not going to complain too much about my choices. Even in England, as my crew and I were seeking out and draining London of their cask ale - I hit a point where I needed a light, crisp, clean lager to break the routine. Of course, it wasn't Bud or Rolling Rock or Carlings I found - it was Ayinger Helles. Life's too short to drink bad beer.

Sorry to miss you, Steve. Ken and I can't drink in the afternoon and at night too! We'd be crawling down the Edens at midnight!

Crawling is probably right - traffic is nothing less than horrendous around Chi any more, even at the wee hours! Have fun!

S.

steveh

07-17-2004, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by deanna
I have tentative plans for tomorrow, but with a fellow Goose Island MBA. Plans can be changed. We'll see...

Aw c'mon...you can do it! ;)

S.

steveh

07-17-2004, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by Richard English
I'll raise a glass of all of them in turn.

Cheers, Richard. Based on the Goose Island menu, I think I'll raise a Kölsch, followed by a Saison, and then finish with a Best Bitter in your honor!

S.

Richard English

07-17-2004, 12:46 PM

Quote "...AFA getting casks from across the pond, they just don't travel as well - especially in the warmer months..."

I think the real problem is more one of cost. Beer is bulky and expnsive to transport. Casks could easily be flown to anywhere in the world within 48 hours - but at over 100lbs for a firkin it's an expensive carriage.

Even in the UK most breweries have found that it is cheaper to brew locally and to avoid transport costs.

Local production is the answer and I am sure that US production of cask beer will increase since its popularity is definitely increasing.

steveh

07-17-2004, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Richard English
Local production is the answer and I am sure that US production of cask beer will increase since its popularity is definitely increasing.

That's definitely what to watch for, and the Chicago Beer Society is doing a good job of education and promotion with its Real Ale Festival - I hope that they can find a good venue for next year.

Good point on the cost of bulk shipping.

S.

Bruno_78

07-17-2004, 02:45 PM

Well, we're leaving south bend in about an hour. We'll hope to see at least some of you tonight and tomorrow.

chazwicke

07-17-2004, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by steveh
That's definitely what to watch for, and the Chicago Beer Society is doing a good job of education and promotion with its Real Ale Festival - I hope that they can find a good venue for next year.

Good point on the cost of bulk shipping.

S.

You guys have fun this weekend and keep us posted on the Chi Town Real Ale fest. I'd like to attend this year
. As soon as you know the dates please let us know. I'm certain that the guys I went to Costa Rica last March want to make that an annual event. I will try to schedule that around the Real Ale fest.

Kalleh1

07-17-2004, 06:55 PM

Chaz, we'll be sure to tell you...though Steve has to tell me first! I missed it last year, unfortunately!

Steve, we will miss you tonight! ): In fact, it may just be my husband and I! Oh, well, it is a great place, and I will be with good company! We will be there at about 10:00 p.m., but will stay for the fireworks people.

Ahhh, Steve, have you been on the Edens lately? The traffic won't be bad at that time, I assure you!

As for the conversation about beers, Steve knows a whole lot more about beer than I do, so I bow to his points. I just like cask conditioned beer so much and wish we had more available here. Why can't we make our own? Why do we have to import it from England? There are a lot of good microbreweries around.

I do agree with Steve, though, that if you like variety in good beers, Chicago is the place to be. There are some excellent places here (I only know this thanks to Steve!). You are right, Richard, that Belgian beers are very popular here, and the Hop Leaf here has a wonderful selection of those.

I hope to see somebody tonight!

steveh

07-18-2004, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by Kalleh1
Ahhh, Steve, have you been on the Edens lately? The traffic won't be bad at that time, I assure you!

Of course I have! I just can't believe that traffic is always as bad as it is. When I first started visiting the city (often), back in the 80s, you could rely on traffic thinning pretty good by midnight - not any more! It's crazy - I need to learn the trains and El better, and not be so impatient with all of the stops.

AFA Cask Ales, yes - we need to let the micros know that we want more and more often. With the way it's becoming more popular, I can see the changes ahead.

S.

Kalleh1

07-18-2004, 09:38 PM

Well, my hubs (Ken) and I got to the Clark Street Ale House at about 10 p.m. or so...and the traffic was fine both ways. Yet, it was the parking that was a hassle; I had forgotten about that!

We met Bruno and his lovely girlfriend, Heather. We had an excellent time, and the cask conditioned ale there was fabulous. Ken thinks it was the best he ever had, and, remember, he joined me in England. It was a 2 Brothers that had been stored in a Jack Daniels barrel for 100 days. Bruno thought it was quite different, and I think he liked it. Right, Bruno? I know he ordered one as we left.

Anyway, it was great meeting Bruno and Heather!

Richard English

07-19-2004, 02:01 AM

Two Brothers was the beer I tried in that local bar (with the unforgettable name :-) where all those empty-heads were sitting at the counter drinking Bud from the bottle!

It was an excellent brew - better even than the Goose Island that the bar had as an alternative - and one of the finest I have ever tried, anywhere in the world.

It tasted to me like a cask-conditioned beer in which case (assuming the one you tried was the same) I doubt that it spent that long in maturation. Such lengthy maturation periods are characteristic of lagers (real Budwesier - Czechvar to you) is stored for around 100 days.

It's unlikely, although not impossible, that a cask-conditioned beer would undergo the same treatment. Certainly they would have to re-start the fermentation prior to dispense since it would certainly have finished after 100 days storage.

Good to see that the Clark Street Alehouse came up trumps this time; apart from the beer (!) it is an excellent place.

steveh

07-19-2004, 06:02 AM

Originally posted by Richard English
Two Brothers was the beer I tried in that local bar (with the unforgettable name

Mac's. ;)

It tasted to me like a cask-conditioned beer in which case (assuming the one you tried was the same)

It doesn't sound like this was the same beer you sampled in April Richard. A new trend for micros is to take some of their beers (cask or not) and age them in whiskey barrels - bourbon most often, as they're easy to acquire in the U.S.

I've tried a few of these beers (bottle and draft) and they are usually outstanding in their complex flavors.

It's unlikely, although not impossible, that a cask-conditioned beer would undergo the same treatment. Certainly they would have to re-start the fermentation prior to dispense since it would certainly have finished after 100 days storage.

I'm not sure what method is used in order to make this truly cask conditioned and barrel aged, but a ferment re-start might be possible as the beers used for aging are often high gravity to begin with.

Of note - we learned from Will, the head-brewer at Goose Island Lincoln Park, that Chicago will be holding a barrel-aged festival some time in early November...more to come.

S.

Richard English

07-19-2004, 06:19 AM

My next trip to the USA isn't until 19 November so it's probably too late. What's more it's to Orlando which is a bit of a hike from Chicago.

Beer aged in cask is common enough here but it is generally bottled once its aging is completed.

Cask-conditioned beer, by definition, is conditioned in the cask and is served while it is still fermenting - and I am sure that's what I had at Mac's. It was, without doubt, the finest beer I've ever drunk in the USA and amongst the best I have ever drunk in the world. I don't think we can get it in the UK.

I did check their site but it hasn't been updated since 1998 (apart from the list of events that is for 2003) and so there's no mention of the beer I drunk which was an English-style bitter.

And I still can't believe that the majority of drinkers there were drinking Bud from the neck of the usual miniature Bud bottle ($3) rather than an Imperial pint glass of cask beer ($6).

steveh

07-19-2004, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by Kalleh1
...and the traffic was fine both ways. Yet, it was the parking that was a hassle; I had forgotten about that!

Parking was fine at Goose Island (G.I. has free parking, unheard of in Chi - let alone for a >gasp< bar), it was the bumper-to-bumper on the Kennedy to Edens that had me squirming - at 6:00 on a Sunday! It cleared pretty well by the near north 'burbs...hey, that's where you live! ;)

We met Bruno and his lovely girlfriend, Heather. We had an excellent time, and the cask conditioned ale there was fabulous.

Student, Bruno, Heather, and I met up for another tour of the Goose Island Lincoln Park brew-pub - and some beer shopping afterward at Sam's. B&H say that Sam's is bigger than most of their grocery stores in South Bend!

This week's tour was guided by Will, Goose Island's award winning head pub brewer, and the group was a little bigger than the last I was in. Nonetheless, Will led us quickly to the sampling and beer discussion.

He could tell, and appreciated, that we were beer people as we savored our samples longer than the others - and probably asked more annoying questions!

Being the only 4 tasters left after the "official" tasting was over, Will shared some samples of other brews that weren't on the tour menu. One, the particularly light, crisp and smooth Summer's Best Bitter - which is also now on the hand pump since yours truly helped to make room by finishing off the cask Porter - another interesting beer that held on to a thick head even after the actual beer was gone! Probably due to it being the bottom-of-the-barrel.

Even though we weren't served G.I.'s home-made chips (crisps, Richard), as B&H enjoyed during another tour, these tours and tastings are certainly well worth $3 and the chance to schmooze with the hands-on people creating what we love so!

Great to hook up with Student again, and also to meet Bruno and Heather. Sorry Deanne and Prankasaur or Harp couldn't make an appearance, but sooner or later we'll have a huge gathering to take up the whole tour...then definitely take Monday off work!

S.

steveh

07-19-2004, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by Richard English
And I still can't believe that the majority of drinkers there were drinking Bud from the neck of the usual miniature Bud bottle ($3) rather than an Imperial pint glass of cask beer ($6).

There's just no accounting for taste - though I'm doing my best to help change that! You'd have been happy (again) at Goose Island yesterday Richard, the only bottle of beer I saw was G.I.'s own Pere Jacques, a Belgian style Dubbel.

And I think you'd have enjoyed the Best Bitter - Student had it from the cask, but I only had opportunity to try it from CO2 tap, but it was even good in that form. 100% Marris Otter malt and Yakima Valley Goldings hops - very smooth and flavorful.

S.

Richard English

07-19-2004, 06:47 AM

Quote "...You'd have been happy (again) at Goose Island yesterday Richard...!"

I'm sure! I did try the best bitter I'm sure. I think that was the one I had on my last day (you know, when I spoke to those young ladies and got the tee-shirt!)

steveh

07-19-2004, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by Richard English
I did try the best bitter I'm sure. I think that was the one I had on my last day

That was the Anniversary Bitter (I believe) you were enjoying. The Summer's Best was only recently brewed - some of the fun of a brew-pub, you never know what's going to be on tap, or if it ever will be again! If you're fortunate enough to have the chance to sample something rare, it's a great event. Otherwise, you just listen to others lament of "what once was!"

S.

studentofbeer

07-19-2004, 07:30 PM

it was a fantastic time and a great send-off. We do great discussions of beer on the board, but there's nothing like really sitting down with people in person, drinking a beer and talking about it. It was great fun.

The Best Bitter on cask was excellent. I had the same pint on Friday on regular draft and it tasted too sweet. Steve suggested it might not have been ready, and I agree, because the cask-conditioned version was phenomenal.

BluesHarp

07-19-2004, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by steveh
Great to hook up with Student again, and also to meet Bruno and Heather. Sorry Deanne and Prankasaur or Harp couldn't make an appearance, but sooner or later we'll have a huge gathering to take up the whole tour...then definitely take Monday off work!

S.

Wish I could have made it; but I think a larger Realbeer group is a definite plan.
I did, however, have a great time at Brews N Blues in Oshkosh. I originally was going to take notes and prepare a nice essay on what I found there, but decided to just relax, drink beer and enjoy the live music.

I was able to taste some excellent meads made by a member of SOB (Society of Oshkosh Brewers), a homebrew club.

A few highlights:

Bourbon Barrel Stout - Central Waters Brewing, Junction City, WI
It was sweet, black as night with a thick, dense, deep brown head (which I believe I woke up with Sunday...but I digress :D )
Some hints of cherry and raison and a wonderful bourbon flavor...strong, but not overpowering.

Bitter Woman IPA - Tyranena Brewing, Lake Mills, WI
I know many of you have had this in bottles, but draft the hops tasted brighter, and it seemed to be a bit maltier; easily my favorite IPA of the fest.

Caber Tossing Scottish Ale - Fox River Brewing, Oshkosh, WI
This is a brewpub located in Fratello's Restaraunt right of the Fox River. The beer is a very malty brew with some caramel and toasty qualities. It is not as smoky as is typical of many of the Scottish ales, but rich and delicious. I believe it is advertised as 7%ABV, and it is every bit of that...help me, I've been Fratellosized!!

Fest Beer - Capital Brewery, Middleton, WI
Amazingly, I had never had this Capital beer before, and I could kick myself!! The description from Capital: "Gold hue with frothy mouth feel and well-balancd hop bitters" doesn't do it justice; this beer reminds me very much of a Hacker-Pschorr Oktoberfest I had years ago...deep golden maber color, very nutty, toasty flavor with a nice hop bite and malty backbone...much more robust than I was expecting.

...and Steveh...Capital also was using this fest to debut their '04 Oktoberfest brew; it seemed to have much of the same malt profile of the maibock...sort of a cross between that and a mini-Autumnal Fire...good stuff!

Well, this little review was obviously not up to the standards of many of our collegues here, but I'm working from memory, or at least what is left of it...I have to admit; after the fest, we went to bluesnbrews wife's grandparents tavern for fish and proceeded to drink much more than we really needed to.

The fest, however, was nicely done...I would invite any brewfest lovers in this area to consider a little roadtrip next year (July 16); good beer, good food, good music, a nice riverside venue, and a lot of good people!

I maybe should have started a new thread, but since bluesnbrews and I were the only ones there from the forum, it would have been a mighty short thread!

Cheers!!!

Bruno_78

07-19-2004, 09:25 PM

Well, I've returned home to great old south bend again. It was a great weekend and we really enjoyed meeting everyone. However, as I mentioned to steve and student, Heather has broken my computer and I'm operating on bare bones right now, as i'm in the process of replacing my hard drive, and reinstalling all new drivers. (16 color display really bites!) I'll report more from the weekend when everything is up and running.

Richard English

07-20-2004, 12:25 AM

Quote "...The Best Bitter on cask was excellent. I had the same pint on Friday on regular draft and it tasted too sweet. Steve suggested it might not have been ready, and I agree, because the cask-conditioned version was phenomenal..."

One of the objections that CAMRA has always raised to beers served using extraneous carbon dioxide gas (that which you call regular draft) is that it can prevent proper maturation.

The argument has been going on for years, with the pro-carbon-dioxide lobby claiming that properly applied external carbon dioxide is doing no more than the natural carbon dioxide of fermentation and the anti-carbon diozide lobby claiming that, even with the greatest of care, over pressurisation is likely and proper maturation thus inhibited.

Cask-conditioned beer, when it is first laid down in the cellar, will be sweeter than it should be since the priming sugar has still to ferment. After a few days this will happen and the beer will be ready to drink.

I suspect that your "regular draft" was not ready and that the extraneous carbon dioxide might well have contributed to this.

steveh

07-20-2004, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by BluesHarp
...and Steveh...Capital also was using this fest to debut their '04 Oktoberfest brew; it seemed to have much of the same malt profile of the maibock...sort of a cross between that and a mini-Autumnal Fire...good stuff!

I'm doing my best not to rush out of Summer into my favorite season, but just news of Oktoberfest has my mouth watering!

I'm pretty sure I've had the Central Waters BB Stout at the Quivey's Grove Beer Fest, it's outstanding.

Now - get out there and find some more Capital Fest!! It's a great replication of the standard "Fest" beers being served at the big ones in Bavaria these days - alas, no Märzen ever seems to be found at the larger fests any more.

S.

steveh

07-20-2004, 06:17 AM

Originally posted by Richard English
I suspect that your "regular draft" was not ready and that the extraneous carbon dioxide might well have contributed to this.

The odd element to factor in with brew-pubs (and I realize we should have asked this while we had Will's attention - hindsight is always 20-20) is that you never know how the beer may have progressed. I'm deducing that the Best Bitter on CO2 was separately matured for "regular draft." While certain batches from the initial brew were run off to firkins for proper English style conditioning to be dispensed from the beer engine.

I did get to sample 16 ounces of the Best from CO2 tap and, while quite heady and creamy - in a near nitrogen way (maybe Goose is mixing a little nitro into their system for some ales), I didn't taste the over-sweetness Student had. Maturing on CO2? Maybe G.I. is taking that proper care with its CO2 system Richard mentioned. But I'd think that any maturation should (should) have been complete before the beer was added to the lines - who knows? It would be interesting to taste it today (anyone in the area?).

As I was tasting the Best, a little disappointed that it wasn't on cask (I had yet to order the last (half) pint of the Porter that was hogging the beer engine), I did note that it was quite good - light and smooth biscuit malts with a very nice hop balance. Regretfully, I'd had a good fill by the time the cask version had been tapped, so I couldn't compare - at least this week!

S.