Barley Wine Questions

[lordkenpo]

Hey guys,

I had every intention of brewing this barley wine a month ago, but got caught up in things at work, etc., you know how it goes. So I finally got free time to brew last night, and to say the least, it's been my most challenging brew yet. Boilovers were almost guaranteed with every hop addition, it was my first experience with Star San (or should I say, FOAM), didn't know how to add all of the extract, etc., etc. But it all worked out, and it's in the fermentor now.

So, if everything worked out, why am I still concerned? Well, for one, my yeast pack hardly expanded at all. Dunno if anyone else has used WYeast Scottish Ale yeast, but if so, should it have expanded a lot? It was an XL pack (packaged in March, but kept refrigerated 'til now), and I let it sit at room temp for nigh 4 hours (post-slappin') before adding it to the batch. I'm nowhere near my homebrew shop, so if I need new yeast, I may have to wait a week+ to get it in the fermentor. Is this too long?

Also, as mentioned above, I wasn't sure about how much water/malt extract to add to the boil. I added about 2 gallons of water to the brewpot, steeped the grains, and then realized I had a lot of space to add malt extract (I usually boil about 2.5-3 gallons of water). So I added in as much malt as I could (roughly 8-10 pounds worth of the 14 total). It was a THICK boil. Without going into the 10 or so boilovers that nearly happened, I'm concerned about sugar scorching. At the end of the boil there was no more of a ring at the bottom of my kettle than there normally is, but every resource I've read warns about adding too much malt. What gives? As I had to add a crapload of hops, I thought adding more malt for hop utilization would be a good thing. My boil didn't seem scorched, but could the flavor still be affected?

[brewmonkey]

Actually when working with hops in higher gravities such as barleywines, you will need more hops to achieve the same bitterness as with lower gravity beers. There is a formula for it, I know it is covered in Ray Daniels book Designing Great Beers.

As for the scorching, with a direct flame you can expect a little. With a beer like a Barleywine I would not worry to much about it unless the entire bottom of the pot was pitch black and the wort smelled burnt.

Whenever you work with high gravity beers you should either pitch 2 tubes or make a starter, starter being the ideal solution. If you have no activity and you wait a week it will be to late. The risk for infection will grow each day and you will lose the batch.

Overall I would say relax I am sure everything will be fine, just as you planned it.

[toneyc]

If I remember correctly, the package says let stand one day per month from the date stamped on the package, usually overnight, at least. It should be fine if it swelled any at all in 4 hours.

Your grains probably soaked up some of your brewing water. I would probably have added more water, if possible, but you'll be fine.

:D
Toney.

[Tom C]

What was your original og? I would be concerned with your choice of yeast...wyeast has an attenuation of 68-73% and white labs in the low 70's. It's nature is to leave a big malty taste....If you have a high og it might not ferment and may be too maltyfor a barley wine. I would suggest pitching some champagne yeast when you rack over into your secondary or about a month from now to re-ferment what the scottish couldn't.

Tom C

[wortchillergoal]

Boilovers are wont to happen with high gravity beers. So if you kept them in the pot you did well.

As for the yeast. I have used that same yeast in a barelywine with very nice results. Since it did not swell out as much, it might take a little longer to get going. I have done the same with other Wyeast. It may be a malty tasting beer, but some barelywine people like it that way.

Take a hydro reading when you rack to secondary. If you think you need more action then add the champange yeast.

Good Luck and be patient, good barelywines take some time.

[lordkenpo]

Thanks guys, I've been stressing over this all day. It wouldn't be a big deal if I lived closer than an hour and a half from my brewshop, and if I didn't have to work the same hours that it's open. Luckily, one of my roomates is up that way this weekend, and he may take pity on my soul if he has the time. Considering he brews too, and this is his first trip to the brewshop yet, I figure he's due for a favor.

But anyway, Tom, the OG was 1.090. I'm brewing from a kit made by my brewshop, and I figure they're erring on the lighter side of barley wine to keep their customers from having too many problems. Hence just the Scottish yeast, and not the Scottish yeast/Champagne yeast re-pitch. That said, what kind of finishing gravity should I be expecting?

If I do re-pitch with Champagne yeast in secondary, I should probably use another 6.5 gallon fermentor, huh?

[Tom C]

I calculate that your final og will read between 1.024-1.027 using the attenuation of 69-73%. This will leave an alcohol content to the barley wine of 8.39%-8.79% abv. On the low end for a Barley wine, but would be a nice malty treat. If you want a bigger beer I would rack over onto a champagne yeast and let it sit for 3-6 months. Barley wines age soooooo beautifully.
It would be a bigger beer this way but would probably tend to a drier finish unlike if you kept it as is a malty treat. Either way it sounds like a winner and the beauty is you can always brew more then tweek it....actually since this is your first barley wine my general rule of thumb is to follow the recipe as is then tweek in subsequent brews.

Tom C

[lordkenpo]

So I decided not to go with the champagne yeast. Like Tom said, I'll get a handle on how this works out first, and tweek future brews from there.

However, now I'm left with a few more questions. The kit came with a package of hops to be added during primary (5 days into primary, as the directions say), but because of what I've read elsewhere on the site, flavor/aroma is lost if not added in secondary. Compounded by the fact that I was concerned about a hops blowout if added while fermentation was still occuring, I chose to rack onto the hops in secondary (despite the fact that my secondary is 1.5 gallons smaller than my primary). This worked out well; a little bit of a bubble up from the hops, but nothing I couldn't handle.

Only, what now? I want to leave it in secondary for at least 2-3 weeks - can I just let the hops sit in secondary for that long? I added these directly to the fermentor, so if I need to get the hops out, I'll have to rack over to yet another secondary to do so, thereby risking oxidation. Any suggestions?

[Tom C]

You are doing what is called dry hopping. Dry hopping will add aroma hops to your brew and won't add much, if anything to your flavor. It will be fine in the secondary and transfering will not be necessary. There is little chance of infection as hops ward off bacteria along with the high alcohol content naturally found in a barley wine. Try and let that one sit for a long long time. Sure you can drink it soon, but it will only get better and better and better;)

Brew on,

Tom C

[lordkenpo]

Oh, I don't plan to. I'm shooting for Thanksgiving/Christmas at the earliest. I know the rules... :(

Is 2-3 weeks in secondary long enough? Once I bottle I'm priming with the corn sugar supplied in the kit, so I'm worried if I wait much longer in secondary, the wee beasties will die off prior to carbonating.

Oh, and I took a small sample when racking the other night (prior to dry-hopping), and it already seemed really, really spicy. Will this mellow out over time? I think I read that somewhere...

As always, thanks again!