an introduction to real beer!

[hopjack13]

now thats what im talking about "real beer!" and people are listening . i tell them of the great beers that are out there, and ask them how they could restrict themselve to just one style of that chemical waste they're drinking? to which they reply "well what do you recommend?"............oooops :confused: well i love arrogant bastard, but i can't tell them to go out and buy a bottle. it would be too much hop for them......they're simply not ready for an assualt on the palate of that magnitude! they must be eeeeased in to it. so i usually try to start them off with baby steps. widmer, hefeweizen.....................i guess , what else could i recommend? and after the first step what about the next?

[steveh]

I was at a gathering of friends and acquaintances last Summer in a very good beer-bar in Chicago (the Map Room, if you're reading Richard). My friend (a near recent convert to the real side) and I were drinking freshly tapped Bell's Oberon, when a few of his Miller-Lite-drinking friends entered the bar and asked what we were drinking - they were surprised by the color, or maybe that it actually *had* color and wasn't Guinness-dark.

My friend and I explained that it was the latest Summer beer from a small, very good brewery in Michigan - and it was my turn to buy the round. Well, all three sipped and nodded and looked thoughtful - if not pensive. One said it was pretty good, the other two thought it tasted "funny." I figure they were a little stunned because it had any flavor at all. The one who liked it had another - the other two switched to their stand-by swillsners.

Lesson? One outtta three ain't bad, I guess. There are people out there who are adventurous and others who just don't (sorry) care, and aren't gonna change. I also picked up a little hesitancy at the expense of a night out drinking a $4 glass of beer, or a $2 bottle. The answer, of course, is that life's too short to drink bad, or cheap, beer.

But I figure Oberon (provided it's available near you) is a pretty good transition beer - it's light, refreshing, flavorful and real - everything Miller Lite or Bud Lite or Coors Lite says they are, but ain't.

S.

[S.F.B.]

When I try to introduce someone to the "Wide World of Real Brew", I take them to one of the brew pubs and buy a sampler tray of the house ales. This way they can get an idea of the variety of styles that are out there. This usually happens after they have uttered the words, "beer is beer". :mad: Those words make me sooooooo angry.

[threecb]

I tend to stick with lagers like Brooklyn Pilsner or Penn Pilsner. Maybe a Helles. If it's too dark, it'll scare the uninitiated with the ol' "dark beer is too strong" misbelief. Also, I find that hoppy beers make them think "bitter in a bad way". That bums me out because i'm a hophead myself, so it's hard to deflect the urge to pour them a Victory HopDevil!

I've tried the Weiss route, with mixed results. Some folks enjoy the mellowness of the style, some are turned off by the spicy/fruitiness.

I like the idea of the brewpub sampler, but most times it's when I have friends over and give them my "leave your Bud at the door" attitude that I ply them with my samples. Sometimes it results in a convert! And, if we could get that "1 out of 3" ratio, the world would be a better place!

cheers,
steve

[Richard English]

Have I mentioned, by the way, that in the UK A-B is promoted as a premium brand ans is more expensivve than any of the UK Real Ales?

What A-B have worked out (and they are VERY good marketers) is that the US drinkers are prepared to drink any old rubbish if it's cheap but that UK drinkers, faced with a confusing range of choices, will drink anything that has a clearly identified brand - and the more "classy" the better.

Bottled Fuller's 1845 at around $4 or bottled A-B Bud at around $5 a pint - I I know which I would sooner drink!

[steveh]

Originally posted by Richard English
Have I mentioned, by the way, that in the UK A-B is promoted as a premium brand ans is more expensivve than any of the UK Real Ales?

Of course, it's "imported." :P


Bottled Fuller's 1845 at around $4 or bottled A-B Bud at around $5 a pint - I I know which I would sooner drink!

Me too sir, me too - and it won't have rice on the ingredient list. Do the publicans actually serve Bud in an Imperial pint glass?

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by threecb
Also, I find that hoppy beers make them think "bitter in a bad way". That bums me out because i'm a hophead myself, so it's hard to deflect the urge to pour them a Victory HopDevil!


Some 3 years ago I was in San Francisco for an industry conference with a few co-workers, we lunched at the Steelhead Brew-pub and I suggested ordering up the taster-set. One of the co-workers asked what she would like the best and told me she didn't care for bitter beer. The funny thing is, she ended up gravitating to the I.P.A. Steelhead had on tap - turns out she really didn't know the definition of bitter!

Oh yes, another convert to real beer I might add.

S.

[Richard English]

You can get "draught" Bud in some of the more vile pubs here and that would be served by the pint. I was making a rough comparison of quantity - Fuller's 1845 is actually sold in 500Cl bottles - roughly a US pint and rather less than an Imperial pint.

All draught beer in the UK must be sold in Imperial pints or multiples thereoff; bottled beers are sold by the bottle (although the quantity must be shown). Typically a bottle will be 500 or 330Cl. although some traditiona;l brewers still use pint and half-pint bottles.

A-B Budweiser is sold as an "import" although it is, of course brewed at Mortlake in the old Watney's brewery. Real Budweiser, from the Czech Republic, is imported and is usually sold for the same price (or sometimes less) than the A-B chemical fizz.

[threecb]

I've had the steelhead IPA, when I was in SFO for part of my honeymoon (6 BPs and Toronado, plus siteseeing in 3 days -- what a woman i married!!), and i'd have to say that a good choice was made! That's one of the reasons why the sampler is a great intro...usually something for everyone except the most belligerent swill-drinker.

But that does show that you can never guess what someone will like. I had a Budrinker over my house over the holidays that ended up drinking more of a growler of a local Pale Ale that than I would've liked!

[paul84043]

It always kills me here in Utah what people will pay for a glass of A-B superfizz, some places as much as 4 to 6 bucks per glass!

I just jumped into brewing my own and went straight for the good stuff, I knew I could handle it.

I am amazed at the number of people that I run into that want to brew thier own beer, since you basically can't buy good beer here in Utah, everything is illegal. Making your own is your only option.
But they are afraid of the process and some idiot that they knew once tried it and really screwed it up bad, thus.. it's not possible to make your own....I hate that mindset.

I can't count the offers I have had that went something like..."If I buy the equipment, will you make it for me?" Or people asking to buy my homebrew just to try it...(sorry, I'll give away a couple for testers, but it's too much work just to turn around and sell it.)

It's like there's a whole sub-culture here that wants desperately to have access to good beer, but has no idea how to get it...

[Richard English]

Forgive my ignorance but is it illegal to sell beer in Utah? And if this is the case, how do A-B manage to get away with it (yes, I know it's not really beer, but that's what it's classified as in law).

Is it not possible simply to order a case from a supplier and have it sent by normal delivery services if it's not sold in the stores?

Certainly that's the was we can do it in the UK. Anything that can be legally bought can be bought from anywhere and in any way.

[hopjack13]

my brother lived in utah for a minute, when paul said "A-B superfizz" he ment it . (not that i would ever touch the stuff) they can only have about half the abv content in the beer there then the rest of the country. it's almost like a non-alcoholic beer. i've been to the south as well where they have dry countrys(you can't buy alcohol) oh , you can make it though, the jack daniels distillery is in a dry county from what i understand? but place's like that must be truely unbeerable places to live. nevada's great the never stop selling alcohol!

[Richard English]

I thought Budweiser was like that in its normal guise!

And I am amazed. I thought it was only Muslim countries where beer is outlawed (and even in some of them - Egypt, for example - you can get it).

It's enough to make you want to cry into your beer (and to deny you the beer into which to cry!)

Well, I'll just have to go downstairs and open up a Fuller's 1845 to steady my nerves...

[hopjack13]

well it's not illegal to have or drink beer in theses place just illegal to "buy" and yes , it does make one want to cry, but i took your advice on the fullers 1845, so i think i'll join you on that one! can't wait to get home so i can try it!

[steveh]

Originally posted by threecb
But that does show that you can never guess what someone will like. I had a Budrinker over my house over the holidays that ended up drinking more of a growler of a local Pale Ale that than I would've liked!

Have you ever noticed that at a party or picnic the good beer always goes first? You bring a six-pack of something good or different and suddenly the swill drinkers develop good taste - and you get ONE of your beers. Always bring back-up - and *hide* it!

S.

[hopjack13]

i usually bring fizz for sheep, and seirra nevada for my self, if someone ask's ,i tell them it's bitter and they most likely wouldn't like it.....but there's some fizz over there. i hear what your saying though , it has happend to me as well, on more then one occasion.

[b3s]

Originally posted by steveh
Have you ever noticed that at a party or picnic the good beer always goes first? You bring a six-pack of something good or different and suddenly the swill drinkers develop good taste - and you get ONE of your beers. Always bring back-up - and *hide* it!

i have an exception to that rule that just totally shocked me. a buddy of mine had moved back in with his parents so he could complete an advanced degree. his pa was having a major birthday and i was picking my buddy up from that. he was low on cash and had picked up, of all things, a 12-pack of blatz (you can pick on bud all you want, but that question of how do you tell if sour cream is bad most certainly applies to blatz). needless to say, imo, my buddy was demonstrating one of the rules in my sig.

all of his pa's buddies from college were there...we're talking doctors, lawyers, dentists, businessman...mostly upper-middle-class or better types. my buddy opened his first beer, turned around, next thing he knew there were only three cans of blatz left!

must have been some kind of 30 year repressed nostalgia thing from frat puke parties or something, because they drank down the blatz and spurned the "good" beer (good being miller in this case :rolleyes: )

my two 6-packs of fullers london pride went unscathed...well, not really, i managed to drink it down at the campground that weekend.

[paul84043]

I never see anyone bring anything even closely resembling decent beer to parties, (usually it's a 12 pack of un-natural-ly light) it's usually the other way around, they come to our house because we always seem to have something around to drink...

You pretty much can't drink anywhere here in Utah that another human could possibly see you, other than a club or your own property, and you should see the looks on the neighbors faces when you sit around and crack open a beer.

I'm just so glad that they haven't found a way to restict our ability to make your own beer at home. I have absolutely no doubt that they would if they thought they could get away with it here. It's funny when you get a large concentration of any extreme religious cult, they feel completely comfortable shoving thier beliefs right down your throat wether you want them or not.

There is a dim, faintly flickering light at the end of the tunnel, which by the way, grows brighter each time I buy another fermenter! I'm now up to 4 primaries and 4 secondary 5 gallon glass carboys. With 5 batches going in tandem. It's great!

[shughes600]

Originally posted by Richard English
Have I mentioned, by the way, that in the UK A-B is promoted as a premium brand ans is more expensivve than any of the UK Real Ales?

What A-B have worked out (and they are VERY good marketers) is that the US drinkers are prepared to drink any old rubbish if it's cheap but that UK drinkers, faced with a confusing range of choices, will drink anything that has a clearly identified brand - and the more "classy" the better.

Bottled Fuller's 1845 at around $4 or bottled A-B Bud at around $5 a pint - I I know which I would sooner drink!

After four posts regarding what type of beer is best to convert someone to real beer, why must you go into another rant about A-B?

[hopjack13]

because most of us here, with the exception of yourself i presume, can't stand a/b and just love bashing the hell out of them!......"on with the crusade!!!!"

[steveh]

I can sympathize with Richard's distress at seeing his country invaded by macro-swill, there's nothing more perplexing than to see a Rolling Rock emblazoned truck navigating around Trafalgar Square, let alone Budweiser and Carlings on tap alongside more flavorful, interesting beer.

And I can remember a time here in the 'States when drinking an imported beer could get you labeled as some sort of pinko or other malcontent - I can still elicit scorned looks from the old timers in my local tavern when I order a Hacker-Pschorr weiss, new on tap there, but can back them into corners like a lion tamer with a pint of Beamish - yes, it frightens them to no end.

But I digress - maybe what the forum needs is a category set aside *just* for bashing AB? There is the news and opinion section, but I think AB is a big enough thorn in the side of good beer to be allowed its own category. Anyone else?

S.

I wonder if AB might have their *own* forum? I wonder if they read this one? I wonder if they even care?

[threecb]

Originally posted by steveh
Always bring back-up - and *hide* it!

S.

That's why I've gotten in the habit of bring a six
of something like Harp and a six of my current
micro-fave. This way, if the Harp gets purloined,
I won't feel so bad. And if I have Harps that remain,
it's not a bad beer to take back home.

But of course the favorite six is hidden deep in the
dark corners of the refrig, next to the host's 3-week-old
Jello mold (at least that's what I thought it was!)

[threecb]

Originally posted by paul84043
I never see anyone bring anything even closely resembling decent beer to parties, (usually it's a 12 pack of un-natural-ly light) it's usually the other way around, they come to our house because we always seem to have something around to drink...


I guess my reputation among my friends precedes me. At my parties they go out of their way to bring beers that I would dig. At my holiday gathering this year there were at least 12 different beers brought, not including my mixed case! It was micro-heaven!

steve

[b3s]

Originally posted by steveh
I wonder if AB might have their *own* forum? I wonder if they read this one? I wonder if they even care?

/me returns from a brief sojourn to h3ll...

well, at the budweiser site (http://www.budweiser.com) (which is actually a decently made site) i did not see any forums, but i did get a good long laugh at the how beer is made section...they must have farmed that one out ;) the brewery tour also cracked me up.

[steveh]

Originally posted by b3s
/me returns from a brief sojourn to h3ll...

well, at the budweiser site (http://www.budweiser.com) (which is actually a decently made site)

Yeah - their site is just like their beer; all marketing, "Flash," and no substance.

"Those (brewers) who brew with all malt don't use a decoction mash.."? Huh?

And I really like where they tell us that the brewmaster(s) add the hops by hand. If you think about it, I guess this makes sense. They make, what - 5000 gallons in one batch of beer? I suppose one or two handfuls of hops is just about right for Budweiser. Jeez - you can fool some of the people some of the time...

Everybody ought to read the "tasting" section as well.

S.

[hnrblbrbrn]

At school and my reserve unit, most people who know me know I'm into home brewing and that I don't have a brand loyalty, so I often recommend beers or bars, ie Old Chicago, that carry various brews.
With my home brewing, if someone wants some they need to provide a bottle for me, that's my rule. I announce what I'll make and if they want some they have a week to 10 days to request some. Since it's my beer only the first four liters are given to the first 4 people.
I've also discovered by talking about beer, they will be interested in trying other beers. Instead of insulting their beer, I suggest similar beers such as Budvar for the Bud drinkers, just as I wouldn't introduce a Busch Light drinker to Sierra Nevada Bigfoot and expect them to be curious about others. It's a growth process for a lot of people.
It helps to know where the good liquor stores are instead of a beer barn. Most of the beer "drinkers" I know go to a beer barn with the big three available thinking they've got a good choice, oblivious to the choices available at a good liquor store.

[BluesHarp]

I would recommend a good Octoberfest beer, very flavorful, but not "bitter". Our family has an Octoberfest party every year...amazing how many people we have "converted" with a hefty mug of Hacker Pschorr Oktoberfest; sweet, nutty, beautiful amber color. aaahhhhgggg, sweet, sweet, beer.