steeping vs. partial mash

[b3s]

help a newbie out :D

for my third batch (making a run to my local tomorrow) i'm going to do a dry stout....i have two recipes...the first with steeping the second with a partial mash. i've been reading up on partial mashes and pardon my ignorance...but i cannot for the life of me see the difference between the two.

steeping i'm supposed to put the grain in a grain sock and steep at 158F for 60 minutes and squeeze.

for partial mash i'm supposed to let the grains stew for 60 minutes at 158F and then strain...then sparge with 170F water.

is there a tremendous difference between partial mash and steeping?

thanks.

[batkins]

I just did my 2nd home brew. I did an IPA with a partial mash.
I don't know the difference. It wasn't too hard, so don't let the process scare you. I'll let you know how it comes out next week. Should be ready to drink by about Thursday.

[b3s]

oh, i'm not scared of the partial mash...it's fairly straight forward, i just don't see the difference...the two look identical, yet when i check my efficiency charts on fermentablles from grain (papazian or palmer) it seems steeping only works with like 5 grains, while mashing works with everything and for the life of me i cannot tell the difference between partial mash and steeping :)

would now be a good time to get my asbestos suit on?

[Tweek]

the difference would come from whether or not you are trying to extract all the sugar from the grains. Most recipes that call for steeping of the grains are just specialty grains which are used for flavor and mouthfeel color ect. Sparging the grains will get the extra sugar that is stuck in them out. This is totally not necessary in most cases. If you are basing your target gravity off of your extract dont even worry about doing a sparge.

However, you should not squeeze the bag, the bag should be rinsed, you dont have to have the rinse water at 170 but squeezing the grains can bring out the tannins and astrigent properties.

[toneyc]

The "steeping" batches I have done have all been for 15 minutes and the "partial mash" batches have all been for 45 minutes. I had always assumed that it takes a certain amount of time to convert the starches to sugar for partial mash and that we just weren't worried about that for steeping. I also thought that was why they call it "Partial Mash", because you're only getting a partial conversion out of the grains. A full mash is done for 90 minutes.

:) Toney.

[batkins]

I thought it was a "partial" mash, because it was only part of the overall wort. The mash + the extract = the wort.

[CaptHook]

is there a tremendous difference between partial mash and steeping?

thanks. [/B][/QUOTE]

YES. Steeping, your making a tea with grains that impart flavor
and/or color, mouth feel, sweetness,etc. Ex: Dextrin, is non-fermentable sugar, adds body and sweetness. Herbs are also steeped, added to boil or later as with hops. 15 to 30 mins will extract what your after, a longer period may give you bitter and /or other flavers you don't want. Making coffee is time and temp. Get it wrong and you have something nasty! Same with grains.
Mashing is time, temp and filtering. Temp activates the enzymes
you need to convert starch to sugar.(thats what this is all about)
time allows full convertion.(you payed for it get it all out)
Filtering/sparging(rinsing with hot water)will remove most of the fine particales and get all the sugar.
Thats it in a nut shell,

[matt]

Its an enzyme thing.

Generally recipies call it steeping when the grains you're using don't have any enzyme content to break down the starches in the grain, or if it doesn't matter if they do or not. Steeping will impart flavor and color without adding fermentable sugar. In this respect its fantastic for making english mild.

If you're steeping and there are some enzymes present, you may convert some starches anyway. It depends on how thick the mixture is, if its a vast amount more water, then the enzymes will mostly rinse away before they have a chance to convert sugar.

Partial mashing is generally used when there are some trickier grains involved that you're trying to get some flavor from. Oat is a perfect example of this. Mashed oat gives a smoother sweeter and rounder flavor to the finished beer than oat thats just steeped. But oat doesn't have any enzymatic power of its own, so you have to mash some pale malt with it, or add an enzymatic malt extract. On top of that, you cant have the whole thing floating around in a mess of water.

I've found the easiest way to do a partial mash, for those who are used to steeping is to fill your grain bag as you normally would, but don't put it in your big old brewpot. Use a smaller pot, bring the temp up to 150-158 by adding water thats a bit hotter. (Check papazians book for a table on strike temps by weight) You basically want to make a mush of the grains in this smaller pot without having many pools of water anywhere(there should just be a thin layer floating on top of the grain), and try to choose a pot so the grain bag takes the shape of a cyliner that is roughly as high as it is wide. (don't place too much importance on this, its just a good way to avoid overhydration) Those skinny little pasta pots work well for small amounts of grain, but then, so do normal saucepans. After an hour or so, check for conversion(iodine test). When you've got converted starches hold the grain bag over the brewpot, and rinse with water thats at about 170 ish. I just pour boiling water into one of those giant 10 cup pyrex measuring cups and let it cool while I'm mashing, by the time I'm done, its at the correct temperature to "sparge". Don't forget to also pour the water from the mashing pot into the brewpot, that'll have most of the stuff you're after anyway.

You can also skip the sparge part entirely by using roughly 1.5 times the partial mash the recipie calls for. You should have enough liquid from the mash part alone for your recipie, if you don't, give the grain bag a good squeeze or two.

Hope this helped,
Matt