More on Urquell

[hopjack13]

i saw this (http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2004/04/15/features/enjoy%21/07162b15c0d639a487256e76006d1658.txt) over on BA and thought i'd bring it up here.
what a joke! i'd rather spend $9 on a sixer of Urquell then $9 on a case of pbr (sorry brewdepest) any ways WTF?

[Sunriver]

He forgot to state that Pilsner Urquell is the original (Urquell means the original) and that PBR, MGD, Bud, Icehouse, Highlife, and almost every other beer availible in 48 can cubes, 24 can suitcases, and 12 can pack is based on its style.

A truely educated beer drinker would understand that Pilsner Urquell is a beer that began one of the largest changes in beer history.

This story/review is nothing but a strike against Yuppies. The authors main argument is that yuppies drink it.

Hmmmmmmmm............

........

......

...

Nope, just because yuppies drink it does not mean I cannot enjoy the history and flavor of a true original beer.

[Fast_Eddy]

What an ignorant moron. No understanding of beer or history.

[lubricated]

Really what else would you expect out of wyoming. Surprisingly he does like chimay. Which I believe to be pretty weak as far as Belgians go, nonetheless I give him some credit.

Nonetheless, pilsener urquell was the original. These days you are drinking beer made at the same place as the original. Pilsner Urquell got bought out by a mega(forget which one, coors i think) and they changed their recipe. For example no longer are Saaz the only hops used.

You are only fooling yourself that you are drinking something original, anymore it's just a brand name like nike, you are drinking an image.

Personally I prefer Budvar/Czechvar, Spaten Pils, Pyramid pills, prima pills by victory, and, LaConner Pills, in that order over Urquell. Though I'll take a fresh Urquell over a non-fresh pills of any other kind any day of the week.

[steveh]

Hmm. $9 a sixer for Urquell? Remind me to stay the hell away from Wyoming - I pay $10.99 a 12 pack.

While it may well be the beer to pull from your Sonoma basket while listening to the symphony on the green, it's also been the beer of choice of the Czech working class for centuries.

Mr. Burke has some obvious issues with ignorance and prejudices towards beer and society, maybe he ought to be reviewing something of which he has more knowledge.

Then again, based on his Coen brothers and Chimay comment, maybe he just needs to polish his writing skills in order to better project a tongue-in-cheek style.

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by lubricated
Nonetheless, pilsener urquell was the original. These days you are drinking beer made at the same place as the original. Pilsner Urquell got bought out by a mega(forget which one, coors i think) and they changed their recipe. For example no longer are Saaz the only hops used.

Pilsner Urquell is owned by the South African Brewing conglomo, which also owns Miller now and has become SABMiller (for obvious silly marketing reasons), so I suppose you could say Miller owns Urquell - in a round about way.

Where are you getting your info on Urquell's recipe? The only thing I've heard changed in the last 15 years or so (even before SAB bought them) was a switch from oak lagering tanks to stainless steel - a considerable change to the beer's flavor, to be sure. But the Saaz character in Urquell is most significant, if any other hops are being used it's not to any detriment of the Saaz.

If I have a taste for a mellower Pils, I turn to my house beer, Dinkel-Acker. And while I appreciate the history behind Budvar, I find it pales (no pun) compared to Urquell. On the other hand, Golden Pheasant from the Slovak Rep. is outstanding on a hot summer day -- on the green, listening to the symphony...

S.

[steveh]

In a sort of FAQ section:

What basic materials are used in the production of Pilsner Urquell?
The four key raw materials are soft Pilsner water, Zatec (Czech for Saaz - Saaz is the German word), malt and yeast.

S.

[hopjack13]

Proof that evolution CAN go in reverse!
i think he's a few peas short of a casserole,
this guy is all foam and no beer!
i pay $4.99 a six pack here, and with all the great microbrews availabel to me i still find a time an place for the original pils.
gotta love that saaz! but wtf, im a hophead anyways :rolleyes:

[Fast_Eddy]

Probably what happened is some guy drinking PU stole his girlfriend - so he's lashing out - LOL

[hopjack13]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
Probably what happened is some guy drinking PU stole his girlfriend - so he's lashing out - LOL
lmao, and he was probably a yuppie who drove a bmw as well!

[threecb]

To quote the great B. Bunny,
"What an idjit! What a Maroon! What a Ta-Ra-Ra-Goon-De-Ay!"

While this board has proven that not everyone loves PU, it is still a respectable beer. And the domestic macros pale in comparison!

[lubricated]

Originally posted by steveh
In a sort of FAQ section:

What basic materials are used in the production of Pilsner Urquell?
The four key raw materials are soft Pilsner water, Zatec (Czech for Saaz - Saaz is the German word), malt and yeast.

S.

those are the key raw materials, not the only raw materials.

In the Volume 26 no 5 issue of Zymurgy on page 69-70. It is claimed that there was a Brew your own article where it flat out stated that PU uses cluster hops for bittering. I don't have that issue of byo so I can't verify. Also "Clearly to both you and me the Pilsenser Urquell of legendary fame is no longer available. It is a different beer than it used to be -- for better or for worse, depending on your perspective. "

I think it would be naive to think that miller wouldn't have messed with Urquell, and Urquell never claims to use the original recipe. When listing their ingredients they make sure to use the quantifier "key ingredients" so as to not lie about any other ingredients that may be used.

While non of this is absolute proof that they are different from what they used to be. I believe they are more likely than not to have changed their recipe. Now if you are drinking Urquell for the taste and not the history thats a different story, altogether. I am just arguing that you shouldn't fold to the marketing hype about the Original.

[steveh]

Originally posted by lubricated
those are the key raw materials, not the only raw materials.

I won't vouch for a poor translation (materials = ingredients?)

In the Volume 26 no 5 issue of Zymurgy on page 69-70. It is claimed that there was a Brew your own article where it flat out stated that PU uses cluster hops for bittering. I don't have that issue of byo so I can't verify.

I'll see if I can dig that up somewhere for clarification, but who's to say the original recipe called strictly for Saaz, and nothing else? The Saaz still dominate the nose in P.U. (next to the Pilsner malt, that is).

I think it would be naive to think that miller wouldn't have messed with Urquell,

Hmm, I think just the opposite - it's silly to think Miller would actually care, or that the P.U. staff would even let them in on the works. Stranger things can happen, but just as has been discussed here in the past, A/B has no hand in the recipe or brewing of Redhook. I think the marketing arm would take over and say why mess with a good thing that's selling?

Besides, as said - it seems to be more South African Brewing as the overall management than Miller.

While non of this is absolute proof that they are different from what they used to be.

I wouldn't disagree (and see my note about their lagering), but I'd still say it's a far, far site better than any macro-swill from this side of the world.

S.

[lubricated]

Originally posted by steveh

but I'd still say it's a far, far site better than any macro-swill from this side of the world.

S. [/B]

It's far better than any macro-swill from any side of the world.

on a related note.

I still remember the first time I tried Urquell. I was just starting to try various beers. For the most part I had drank a very select few local beers and tended to stick to them. I've always thought of the macro's as only good for getting you drunk and still less efficient and crappier than vodka. Urquell was the first Pilsener that I trully enjoyed drinking. I was taking notes on every new beer I drank then. Looking back it says "So much flavor for such a light beer". That was the extent of my notes at the time. These days I can be alot more descriptive.

These days I found Pilsners that I like better. I find that for me Pilsner is a prefered style only for lunch.

[steveh]

Much as many fall back on a standard American Pale Ale (such as Sierra Nevada) as their every day, gettin' home from a long day at work, quenching a hearty thirst, gee I want a beer - beer, I alternate 12 packs of Spaten Helles, Dinkel-Acker Pils, and Pilsner Urquell in my fridge.

I enjoy the majority of all (good) beers, but these 3 tend to be my grab-a-beer picks.

S.

[Brownbeard]

I have had PU on tap, and it is a good alternative to American macr brewed lagers. I would not say it was anything special. But I rarely think a pilsner is special. But when I have had it in the bottle, all I can think is "PU! Who let the skunk in". Not much different from a Heinekin in the bottle. I generally skip pilsners. They bore me, and PU is no exception. If I am going to buy a light colored lager, not a lite lager mind you, I will go with Leinenkugels.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Brownbeard
But when I have had it in the bottle, all I can think is "PU! Who let the skunk in".

And we've discussed this subject into the ground as well, and I still contend that you guys are gettin' old Urquell. I've been buying the 12 packs alternately, for over a year, from my local paint store and have yet to get any skunked bottles.

Too cold a serve of Urquell (or Heieneken, for that matter) can also bring out a skunk smell.

S.

[hopjack13]

as steveh said "we've discussed this subject into the ground "
but i have never had a skunky urquell, ever. not that i drink it on a regular basis(i prefer my i.p.a.'s and double i.p.a.'s) however on a hot day when there's work to be done, i'll reach for a nice cold urquell or bridgeport ipa. both light bodied and low in alcohol and the main thing "HOPPY" and i guess thats what im getting at, i can't help but think that when people say skunky , im thinkin they mean hoppy....?:confused:
the saaz are a far cry from the cascade or chinook.
noble hops vs. north western hops.....hmmmm
i think i'll make it a movie!

[steveh]

Originally posted by hopjack13
... i can't help but think that when people say skunky , im thinkin they mean hoppy....?:confused:

See, I've tasted skunky beer before (the aforementioned too cold Heineken for one), and I know what people are talking about. But I've never had a skunky Urquell.

There's another local paint store that carries the green bomber bottles of Urquell, and they sit out on a shelf... Maybe it's time for another experiment.

S.

[lubricated]

Originally posted by steveh But I've never had a skunky Urquell.
S. [/B]

Easy. Buy some urquell preferably in a 12 pack because that means it has never been exposed to light. Split it between two glasses and put one out in the sun for a half hour to an hour. Do the same with the other one but cover it. You want equal temps. It's a fun experiment. If you can't taste the difference you can't taste skunk.

I can't stand Heineken. It's as bad as any us swill IMO.

[Brownbeard]

Urquell is only available in the six packs here. So, the bottles are not surrounded by cardboard. And in Iowa, micros and imports spend a little more time on the shelf. Like I said, on tap, teh skunk flavor was not there and it was a decent pilsner, I just find pilsners rather boring. I do not think Urquell is a hoppy brew. I think the only lagers I really care for are Oktoberfests and Bocks. I am sure there are other styles that would please me as well, as soon as I get around to them.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Brownbeard
I just find pilsners rather boring. I do not think Urquell is a hoppy brew.

Pilsners are more sublime than most beers, especially micro ales, that are out there. Urquell is real hoppy, just not hopped with the same hops (or amount of them, probably) as you may be used to. There's significant difference between Cascades or Chinooks and Saaz or Hallertauer - but they're still hops (a far cry? No, just different character), Saaz being about the "spiciest" of the European noble hops.

I even went so far as to suggest in another thread that P.U. and S.N.P.A. have more in common, style-wise, than many may think. Try one of each (non light-struck, of course) side-by-side - it's a very interesting experiment in aroma, flavor, and body.

And Lube - I certainly know how to deliberately skunk a beer, done it by accident with home-brew too. I just want to sample an Urquell that has been, to the most extent, treated as all other beers on the shelf and see how bad it may get. I always buy Urquell in fully-covered 12 packs.

S.

[lubricated]

Originally posted by Brownbeard
I think the only lagers I really care for are Oktoberfests and Bocks.

Sounds like me a while ago.

I think szwartzbier is a really good style to try if you haven't had it before. My favorite is Einbecker Szwarz. If you haven't tried it before it is quite good. BTW don't drink lagers too cold, to many flavors get lost.

I really started liking some lagers with this beer. Anchor steam is another good lager(sort of a lager).

Reissdorf Kolsch is also good to try because it's an ale but you won't believe it.

Those are some beers I would recomend drinking to experiment with lagers.

I like ales myself even for a thirst quencher I'd take a geuze, or berliner weisse over a pils any day of the week. And as a homebrewer I can, otherwise it would be too expensive.

[steveh]

Originally posted by lubricated
I really started liking some lagers with this beer. Anchor steam is another good lager(sort of a lager).

Brewed with lager yeast and fermented at ale temps.

Reissdorf Kolsch is also good to try because it's an ale but you won't believe it.

Brewed with a top-fermenting yeast and lagered at cold temps. Funny how those styles both worked out so well.

Brownbeard, you've said that the Goose Island beers are getting out your way. Keep an eye out for their Summer beer (which is out in my area), it's a German Kolsch style as discussed above and a very good rendition of the style.

S.

[Brownbeard]

I am picking up a sixer tonight on the way home, I may try one of those, if I can find one. I am getting in a serious APA rutt. Not that I am burned out on them, right now, nothing else seems to appeal to me.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by steveh

....
And Lube - I certainly know how to deliberately skunk a beer, done it by accident with home-brew too. I just want to sample an Urquell that has been, to the most extent, treated as all other beers on the shelf and see how bad it may get. I always buy Urquell in fully-covered 12 packs.

S.

I, for the first time last week, found a 6-er of PU that wasn't skunked. I've never been happier than when I found two places that have PU in the closed in 12 packs.

Trust me Steve - it gets pretty bad even when treated like the other beers. As you know, it has a very high hopping rate and it becomes uber-skunked, seemingly proportionally to that hopping rate.

[hopjack13]

i've never had an urquell that i thought was "skunky" and god willing i never will. it just goes against my grain to intentionally skunk one, so i'll just keep on going like i have been. with any luck i'll stay in the clear.

[steveh]

So, I picked me up a green bomber bottle of Urquell yesterday for experimental purposes. I capped it and was turning from the kitchen counter to throw the cap away and the bottle opener back in the drawer - uh-oh, I can smell skunk from here.

Nonplussed, I poured the big bottle into my nice P.U. 1/2 liter glass, let the head settle in a little and took a big whiff. Hmm, some skunkiness, but not as much as I'd expected from what emanated from the bottle - Saaz were more dominant.

After a few drinks from the glass, and the beer having the chance to "breathe" some, there was no longer any hint of skunk at all.

On the other hand, the Pils wasn't quite right - not exactly fresh and had some harsh metallic, phenol flavors that I never find in the 12 oz. bottles from a 12 pack.

Conclusions? Yeah, there's some skunkiness due to the green bottle, as well as other maladies that can probably be traced to the same source. I'll have to experiment some more... right after I finish the 24 oz. bottle of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale I found at the same paint store! ;)

S.

PS - when you're able to drink 24 oz. of SNPA from one glass (okay, a glass +) and allow ample warming and mellowing time, the malts in the beer really become apparent -- then again, I'd just been drinking Saaz hopped pils.

[ratman03]

I'm with Lubricated on this one. I will bet you anything that SABMiller has changed some things (besides nixing the oak aging). The big brewers always want to do it cheaper if they can get away with it, and most of the time they can. I
guarantee if we could do a blind taste test of 'new' vs. 'old' that a discerning palate would be able to taste the difference.

Personally, I don't mind PU, It hits the spot sometimes. I think Pilsners are generally overlooked in America, and since I'm at present a bit burned out out on American pale ales, I'm going to start looking for some real Pils...

[hopjack13]

ya took one for the team ,way to go steveh ! you're a far better man then i ;) pilsner urquell is a fine beer! an interesting review i might add. makes me wana go out and grab one for myself...well maybe not a light struck one but you know what i mean...it's all about the hops i say!!!!

[steveh]

Originally posted by ratman03
I'm with Lubricated on this one. I will bet you anything that SABMiller has changed some things (besides nixing the oak aging). The big brewers always want to do it cheaper...

But I still say that would be blame to put on top management of SAB, the money guys, not the lowly brewery guys in Milwaukee who could give a rip about Bohemia these days, and probably aren't even asked for their opinion about P.U. If those management guys have any sense, they're listening to their research guys who should be telling them to not monkey with a good thing.

And to reiterate: The barrel aging was discontinued long before SAB bought Urquell - a decision made right at the brewery.

Personally, I don't mind PU, It hits the spot sometimes. I think Pilsners are generally overlooked in America, and since I'm at present a bit burned out out on American pale ales, I'm going to start looking for some real Pils...

You sound like me a few years back - had a long run of APAs from a beer-of-the-month club and wanted something different. Too many bandwagon pale ales out there. But I'll admit, I've gotten back to SNPA for a re-acquaintance and I'm likin' it once and a while.

There are some great Pils from micros out there, Goose Island and Sam Adams' for a couple - Capital and New Glarus from Wisconsin too.

S.

And Hop - that wasn't really takin' one for the team, it was all pleasure! Now, don't ask for a review of a quart of Bud - that would be near sacrifice for the cause! ;)

[threecb]

...or Victory Prima Pils or Troegs Sunshine Pils or Brooklyn Pilsner or...:p

I'm there with ya on the pils! Though I can't deny a good APA/IPA...

[chazwicke]

I have visited the brewery in Pilsn and the brewery where Budvar is brewed as well (Which unlike Steveh I do like better). Both are very fine beers. I recall when the change was made from wood to steel and the discussions at that time about how the beer would not be as good. It is, just a little different. I have had skunked PU and fresh PU and there is a huge difference. PU is a wonderful and I would say delicate beer. All of you home brewers are probably aware of how difficult it is to brew a precision Pils. You can't cover things like you can in a stout. Anyway, I occasionally drink it on tap at restraunts and I did have one suspicious glass from a keg That I thought was skunked. I was baffled by that. I now suspect that the waitress told me it was draught but It was actually from a bottle. All in all PU is a wonderful beer when in optimum condition and I recommend it. just my 2 cents.

[hopjack13]

Originally posted by steveh
Now, don't ask for a review of a quart of Bud - that would be near sacrifice for the cause!

wouldn't dream of it my man ;)