My first all grain with thanks to Sunriver

[Moondoggy]

9-lbs 2 row malt
½ lb 20l crystal malt
1oz. Galena hops (70 Min.)
.5 oz. Cascade hops (20 Min.)
1 – Tab whirlfloc (20 Min.)
Yeast - English Ale WLP #002

1/2 lb light DME
1/2 lb amber DME

This is my first time doing an all grain and I used my new cooler contraption for batch sparging.

4.5 gallons of strike water @ 178 degrees racked with a ½ inch siphon tube to all the grain. This added the water very quickly without any splashing. When the kettle had about a gallon or so left I picked it up and poured the rest of the water in.

I took temp readings at 5, 20, 45 and 60 minutes and the grain bed stayed at a constant temp between 158-160 degrees.

I started my run off after 60 minutes and it produced exactly 3 gallons of wort.

I then added 3 gallons more strike water @ 180 degrees.

I stirred the grain bed well and took a temp reading and the grain bed was @ 163 degrees.

I waited 10 minutes and ran off the wort to my brew kettle and I ended up with about 6.25 gallons of wort. Go figure!


Here is where I think I did something really brainless.

I took and OG reading of the 6.25 gallons of wort and it was 1.028.

I thought that this was really low and I did not remember that I am going to boil off 1.25 gallons of water during my boil and it would increase my OG.

So, in all my wisdom I raided my supplies and found that I had a ½ pound of light DME and ½ pound of amber DME and I added them to the boil.

The OG when finished was @ 1.048

My concern is that when I tasted the wort it was very bitter and I was wondering if my water temps during mashing caused the bitterness or my mix of light and amber DME created the bitterness.

Or, is this normal for these ingredients?

Any chance the bitterness will mellow out during fermentation?

[Fast_Eddy]

When you took the OG - did you adjust for temp? 1.028 at 150 F is (off the top of my head) around actually 1.045.

160 F is definitely on the high side for a mash - beta amylase is nearly completely inactive at that temp. This will lead to a less fermentable wort but probably not an excessively bitter wort. You may have a higher terminal gravity than you expect.

Almost all bitterness will mellow with time, though.

[Moondoggy]

1.028 @ 100 F

and 1.048 @ 70 F

So, next time I need to mash at approx. what degrees?

[Sunriver]

Your ideal temprature should be between the following

150-154 for a drier, more acloholic beer
155-158 for a bigger bodied beer.

I doubt it but it is possible you extracted some tannins from the grain.

As for mellowing out. Definatly, Age should mellow that out alot.

[Sunriver]

BTW the bitterness is the hops. I just looked at my own recipe and relized what you brewed. It should mellow out well. I just finished a keg of it myself.

[Moondoggy]

For the 60 min. period the temp 158 degrees pretty much the whole time.

Where the temp really spiked is the last three gallons of strike water.

I got caught working on other things and the water was at 180 degrees when I added it bringing the grain bed to 163 degrees for 10 minutes.

I also cautioned on the hot side thinking the cooler temp would drop drastically.

Next time I'll just add cold water to adjust the grain bed temp.

Good to hear that the hops are bitter.

By the way, I already have activity in the fermentor after 3.5 hours.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by Moondoggy
1.028 @ 100 F

and 1.048 @ 70 F

So, next time I need to mash at approx. what degrees?

ProMash gives a 1.028@100F@6.25 gallons an adjusted gravity of 1.041@70F@5 gallons (or 1.033@70F@6.25 gallons) . I'm not sure how the wort could've only been 100F(when you took the wort gravity before boiling) when you were sparging at 163F. To get a 1.041(@5 gallons) from 9.5 lbs of grain you have an extract efficiency of 60%.

If you really wound up with that low extract then you must've nuked the amylases(Beta that is - and beta does a lot of the conversion work too) one way or the other - assuming the grain was ok. Things to consider for next time - lower mash pH, lower mash temp, be very careful to break up all dough balls.

You want your mash to be around (148F-)150F and in general not more than 152F - unless you know why you're doing it.

[Moondoggy]

Fast_Eddy,

I took a sample of the hot wort via a turkey baster and added it to my test tube for specific gravity.

I then started to bring the wort up to temp, cleaned some things up, ect. . .

After 10 minutes or so I then took a temp reading of the test wort and a specific gravity reading. (Thinking that I did not have a problem)

That is when I noticed that was @ 100 degrees and @ 1.028 OG.

The one thing that I have not mentioned was that this grain was milled almost a month ago.

I could not get to brew this one as soon as I wanted to so it has been sitting in plastic bags.

Could the fact that the grain was milled that long ago relate to poor extract efficiency?

This one bothers me, I was hoping for at least 70-75% efficiency.

[Sunriver]

You want your mash to be around (148F-)150F and in general not more than 152F - unless you know why you're doing it.

I am going to agree with fast eddy for the most part on this. The higher the temp the more likely you are to burn out the enzymes. I would cauton you on the lower side of the scale.

I brew at 154F for almost all my AG brewering.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by Sunriver
You want your mash to be around (148F-)150F and in general not more than 152F - unless you know why you're doing it.
...
I brew at 154F for almost all my AG brewering.

I guess you understand that I was aiming that statement at all grain newbies.

154F is a good temp - it's just on the end of the scale for beta but beta shouldn't shouldn't denature at that temp.

If I were going to mash at 160 F I would probably step it to 160 F with a 15-20 minute stand somewhere in the beta activity range.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by Moondoggy
Fast_Eddy,
...
Could the fact that the grain was milled that long ago relate to poor extract efficiency?
...


Oh absolutely - you should use grain no more than 2-3 days after it's millled.

[Moondoggy]

I cut the deal with my wife. Grain mill for me cash for her!

[Caffinehog]

Did you correct the hydrometer reading for higher temperature?
1.028 on the hydrometer at 158F would actually be about 1.049
Assuming it cooled to 150F when you sparged it, it would correspond to 1.046, which sounds about right. But WATCH THOSE MASH TEMPERATURES! at 158F, you should get an extremely thick, full bodied beer. You should still get most of the conversion due to higher reaction rates, but it your enzymes will be toast in about 20 minutes. Go much higher, and your enzymes will be gone before you convert much of anything.
Some people mash as low as 145F, though that will take two hours.

[Moondoggy]

Another purchase will be a Hydrometer with a built in thermometer so I can adjust for OG at the corresponding temp.

I do like buying toys!

[Doug95624]

Use a Refractometer for your wort... If your liquid doesn't contain alchohol (your wort shouldn't), an ATC (automatic temperature control) Refractormeter will give an accurate BRIX reading that can easily be converted to Specific Gravity... It's a VERY useful tool for measuring your runoff for Gravity as you go. You can measure your specific gravity with a drop of two of hot liguid, without having to adjust for temperature... One of my best $60 investments...

[Moondoggy]

Well, I am already drinking this one.

I racked it to the keg after 8 days. The Fg was 1.013.

It taste good although a little bitter but I am hoping it will mellow a bit in a week or so.

[Moondoggy]

By the way, I mis-read my calendar when I racked to the keg this last weekend.

I wanted to wait 2 weeks before racking.

I guess I'll drink this one young.

[Tweek]

Originally posted by Doug95624
Use a Refractometer for your wort... If your liquid doesn't contain alchohol (your wort shouldn't), an ATC (automatic temperature control) Refractormeter will give an accurate BRIX reading that can easily be converted to Specific Gravity... It's a VERY useful tool for measuring your runoff for Gravity as you go. You can measure your specific gravity with a drop of two of hot liguid, without having to adjust for temperature... One of my best $60 investments...

That one is definately on my wish list. Though the ones I have seen that looked like they were of quality were considerably more than 60 bucks, whered you get yours?


BTW- grats on the All grain brew Moondoggy!

[Moondoggy]

It has been nearly a month and this one is still very bitter.

Will this one calm down with time or is this the nature of the hops used?

By the way, it looks great in the glass.