I need some advice

[gardenallyear]

I've made my first two batches of homebrew, a hefeweizen and a continental light. They both seem to have the same thing wrong with them but I can't figure out what it is. They have a sour, tart, almost citrus taste that is noticeable in both batches. They are drinkable but I want to figure out where I am going wrong before spending more money on another kit. I am brewing from extract kits and using c brite sanitizer.

The only things I can think of our contamination, but I have tried to be really careful and complete. Could it result from a poorly aerated wort? Could it result from a high temp fermentation?

Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks!

[b3s]

check out howtobrew (http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html), john palmer's online book for common problems and their solutions.

[danno]

where are you getting your kits from, and how much sugar are you using? too much sugar can cause a cidery flavor....

[paul84043]

The "Sour and or Tart" flavor sounds like the textbook definition of a bacterial infection.
What types of sanitation measures to you take, what do you use to sanitize?
How do you treat your breing water?
Where do you live, meaning what's your climate like? (Is there alot of dust or possibility of alot of airborne wild yeast?)
What is your brewing area, is it too busy with people and kids to ever actually get clean? (my house gets that way from time to time)
There are literally hundreds of ways to contaminate your brew, I think that most of us just get lucky alot of the time.
A little more info would go a long way towards better answering your question.

[gardenallyear]

I use c-brite which is a one step no rinse sanitizer, our well water is really gross so I use "drinking water" in the 2.5 gallon jugs from walmart to brew with. I live in Illinois, out in the woods, dust is a problem in the summer but not so much now. I guess wild yeast would still be around.

I usually fill the fermenter with 4 gallons of water and use two c-brite packs as directed to make my sanitizing solution. I throw in the airlock, spoons, yeast starter jar, measuring cups and everything else into the fermenter and soak it for awhile. After that I take everything out and set it on clean paper towels until I use it.

I wash and rinse everything first with ivory and well water.

I do the basically the same thing when bottling.

My first batch I boiled all 5 gallons of water for the wort, the second batch I only boiled the 2.5-3 gallons used to boil the malt/hops and then added it to the fermenter with water straight out of the jugs. I think this is okay??

I buy my kits off of the internet from www.home-brew.com, they seem to be good kits with quality ingredients.

Thanks for the responses!

[mcarlson74]

It could be that you used too much sugar and you are getting a cidery taste. If you don't feel that that is the case and you think that you are getting contamination do what I do and use bleach. Just get yourself some regular Clorox (not the smell good kind) and dilute it with water. Granted I haven't been homebrewing long (about 6 mo.) but I haven't had a problem yet. Knock on wood. :D

[paul84043]

It really sounds like you're doing things right, I don't understand what's going on...
Do you ferment in buckets or a carboy?
Maybe switch to another sanitizer, bleach works, but you have to rinse it very well, then you get into the quandry of needing sterile rinse water, and lots of it. I'd stick to a no rinse sinitizer. I use Star San, I haven't seen c-brite here in Utah anywhere.
Using the water straight out of the jugs "should" be fine, but just to make sure, since you are having problems, I'd boil it for at least 10 to 15 minutes.

The other suggestion was a strong possibility, could you be mistaking a sour flavor for a strong cidery flavor? That's an entirely different problem.
Since you have had the same thing happen to 2 batches, there's got to be something going on....Do you know anyone else that brews that can help and give a second opinion on your whole process? That helps alot sometimes to get someone elses point of view.

Also, to address one of your initial questions, a higher temp fermentation can give you fruity, or off flavors, depending on how high you're talking about. What temp do you ferment at?
Were your kits Ales, or Lagers? I don't know enough about all the different types yet...

How long did you let them sit in the primary? letting the beer sit on the wort for too long will also impart off flavors. Were talking in excess of three weeks though...

I feel really bad for you, that sucks big time. I have done several batches and I know I made a few mistakes, but mine have been turning out really good. There's got to be a reason hidden in there somewhere for your problems.

Hang in there and don't give up, it's worth it.

[gardenallyear]

I am fermenting in a plastic bucket, the first batch I could only stand to wait 7 days before bottling. I waited 10 days on the second batch.

I had a friend who made a batch with a mr. beer kit, those kits have you add sugar to each bottle and then fill with beer to carbonate. He didn't add enough beer to his bottles and it turned our really cidery. Mine doesn't have that same taste, thats the only reason I don't think it is excess sugar. These bottles have a harsher taste and leave a bad aftertaste. I am using 3/4 cup corn sugar for bottling.

My first fermentation started out a little hotter than recommended. The yeast was probably pitched into wort that was at a temperature of between 80-85. It then cooled down to 70-72 in the closet for seven days. My second batch was cooled down to about 76 before pitching the yeast and then fermented at 70-72 for 10 days in the closet.

These two kits were both ales.

I think I will try again using a different sanitizer and really go overboard on the cleaning/sanitizing. I'm also going to ferment in the basement to keep it a little cooler.


My buddies are making really great homebrew using these cheap mr. beer kits. I wanted to show them how to REALLY do it but I am looking like a fool right now.


Thanks

[danno]

well, it's also possible your plastic bucket is harboring some nasties. Plastic can scratch, and bacteria can get inside the scratches and never really ever get cleaned out. If it's a viable option, try another fermentation vessel, either another bucket, or use a glass carboy...

[YamahaXS]

are you using any hops?

i don't know what the problem is... sounds like you are sanitizing sufficiently, though it also sounds like you have some bugs in the beer. However, I wouldn't say flat out that your beer got some bacteria in it.

was all your equipment NEW? if you bottles are used, AND htey have chunks of crud stuck to teh bottem of them then that might be a problem the C-brite can't fix. If you beer is uniformly tasting bad regardless of which bottle you are using then it isn't your bottle/ or bottling process.

Don't rush your beer. You might be tasting some immature properties in the beer. Also if you bottle too soon, you might get some exploding bottles.

Invest in a glass carboy and handle... and if you want, come on up to Madison and brew a batch with me :D

[paul84043]

Good advice there....examine your gear closely and consider going to a glass carboy instead of the plastic bucket.

My guess would be that since the exact same thing has happened to two batches, it's something in your equipment or process.

Are you basing your beer's completion on Hydrometer readings?
That's a must. Nobody can say for sure how long a given batch should take to finish, the Specific Gravity reading stabilizing is the real indicator.

[blevfamily]

Hi Garden,

Sanitize......Try using laundry detergent. If your using a plastic bucket for your primary put some laundry detergent in and fill with water & let it soak. Rinse well & Brew. Another thing...when you clean your primary if it is a plastic bucket don't use anything abrasive, it will scratch your bucket. Scratches can contain bacteria & that's not good.

P.S. Don't rush your beer

Later......Blev

[gardenallyear]

I'm beginning to believe that its contamination. I just opened another bottle and although it wasn't a gusher out of the bottle, after pouring it really started to bubble excessively. I think this is another sign of contamination?? I only used 3/4 cup priming sugar to bottle with on both 5 gallon batches.

I am using a pastic bucket to ferment in and will try using a different sanitizer on my next batch. I'm going to try one more batch before buying a glass carboy, I wish I would have known a little more before buying all plastic to start with.

Thanks for the responses and I'll let you know how the next batch turns out!

[YamahaXS]

Originally posted by gardenallyear
I'm beginning to believe that its contamination. I just opened another bottle and although it wasn't a gusher out of the bottle, after pouring it really started to bubble excessively. I think this is another sign of contamination?? I only used 3/4 cup priming sugar to bottle with on both 5 gallon batches.

I am using a pastic bucket to ferment in and will try using a different sanitizer on my next batch. I'm going to try one more batch before buying a glass carboy, I wish I would have known a little more before buying all plastic to start with.

Thanks for the responses and I'll let you know how the next batch turns out!


Actually this might be good news, depending on how you look at it. I don't think you have a contamination problem at all. I think you have bottled your beer too soon.

Excessive foaming = excessive carbonation = excessive sugar.

I am pretty sure you bottled your beer TOO SOON. If this is the case, you will have exploding bottles sooner or later. This could account for the off-flavors of your beer too....basically yeast are still very much in the middle of it and hence, have not settled out of your beer.

My advice is too start over....In fact, while I hate saying it, I think you should ditch the beer now. If you wait, I am almost certain you will have exploding bottles. At the very least, you will have a geyser each time you open a beer. You should either dump your beer or move your beer to a location that doesn't get hot, and that will be easy to clean. BE VERY CAREFUL... bottles can explode with a goodly amount of force, spraying slivers of glass everywhere. Trust me, I HAVE DONE IT (my first batch of beer in fact).

[paul84043]

I have to agree with Yamaha.....
I knew there was a clue in there that we were missing somewhere!!
The gushers are definitely signs of over carbonation and or bottling too soon...

The hydrometer readings need to be stable for a minimun of 5 days, or 3 consecutive readings 2 days apart (approx).

My brother in law did the exact same thing and it's what turned him off of making his own beer for quite a while.
Now that he realizes what his problem was, he's back into it again.

Like Yamaha said, it's not all bad news. At least we can say with a fair degree of confidence that we know what the problem is....that's still alot better than not knowing.

[gardenallyear]

Thanks for the education, I didn't use a hydrometer at all on my first batch and my second I only measured once after pitching the yeast. The reading was close to what the kit instructions said the final gravity should be so I bottled. It was a few points higher I think. Its hard to wait on these first few batches when starting out!