temperature control

[b3s]

as i posted in this thread (http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=249), i just got my first batch of homebrew started.

i'm having a hell of a time with temperature control, though. i can't seem to keep the fermenter in the correct temperature range. outside is too cold, and inside is too hot. i should also note that i don't have the heat on, but i do live on the top floor of an apartment complex. there is one window (bedroom) and one balcony door. it is not quite warm enough for a/c.

last night i kept the fermenter by the balcony door and left the door open. it has been indicated to me that this will not be tolerated going forward ;)

i'm open to suggestions.

[Tweek]

what are the temperatures? diferent yeast strains have diferent temperature tolerances. I have fermented ale yeasts as low as 60, this takes forever and as high as 75 you can get off flavors this way. both circumstances actually worked out for me. If you have a spot in that range somewhere just set it there and leave it. big temperature swings almost never work in your favor as far as the finished product is concerned. If you are using a lager yeast you can go even lower, but outside is tricky because usually the temperature swings too much during the course of a night and after time that will take its toll.
How about a closet in the middle of your apartment?

[paul84043]

That was going to be my suggestion....

Keeping things warm is easy indoors, but keeping them cool is another story, and the last thing you want to do is run the cooler 24/7 to keep your beer cool.

An apartment is probably the worst case scenario...there's always the small used refrigerator or chest freezer with a temp controller on it. (Used ones are cheap, if you ask the right person, they may well give one to you.) Then you can do both ales and lagers.

[b3s]

well, it was bubbling away this morning at a lower temperature, so i moved the fermenter along an exterior wall out of sunlight.

actually, it's even worse than being in an apartment. i'm on the top floor of a 3-story apartment, but i'm also an interior apartment so there is no corner. all of my closets butt up against another apartment.

i find this ironic, though. my plan was to store the fermenter in the closet where the hot water heater was because i envisioned an issue keeping the brew at a high enough temp...i didn't even think about keeping it cool enough.

anyway, the yeast strain is nottingham ale yeast. this morning the brew was as low as 60F and bubbling about 1-2 times a minute. last night i was having a hell of a time keeping it under 78F indoors (at which point it started sucking air IN, which caused me no end of concern).

and yeah, i'm quite concerned about the temp swings, hence my question :) when letting bread rise i like the ambient air to be around 80F and a touch moist. i suppose i'll figure out the right ambiance for brewing eventually.

[paul84043]

I think an on the edge-constant temp would be better than the large temp swings, I hear that those can shock your yeast into inactivity or they just may all go into the light...
You may want to think keeping wetted towels draped over it, that may help keep it cool, though you would have to tend to it quite often.

[b3s]

didn't think about cold towels. probably could put also put the fermenter in a cold water bath as well.

like i said, i was prepared to keep it warm, but the thought of having to cool it off totally caught me by surprise :)

[daveyP]

The water bath may be the trick. Worked for me last year when I was living in Mississippi, it was ugly hot. Now I'm out of the heat and i can keep the temp pretty constant in the exrta bedroom, door closed, vent closed.
Good luck with this one.....

[paul84043]

It would be easy enough to change the temp only a few degrees and the volume of water should hold the temp very well...

[b3s]

now the question is...why didn't i think of that 16 hours ago? :/

[paul84043]

STRESS.....those first couple of batches are a real nerve-wracking experience!

[spankymac]

If you put the carboy in a washtub, you can put cold water in the tub; then fasten a towel around the carboy (with a safety pin...kinda like superman's cape when you were a tot) and dangle the end in the water. The water will 'wick' its way up the towel, and the evaporation will cool the carboy quite nicely.

[b3s]

well, i'm letting it set where it currently is. i'm getting a perc through the air lock once ever 5-6 seconds (11-12 per minute), so i assume things are going ok.

[spankymac]

Originally posted by b3s
well, i'm letting it set where it currently is. i'm getting a perc through the air lock once ever 5-6 seconds (11-12 per minute), so i assume things are going ok.

Sounds like a good, steady pace...as long as the temp stays below 75 or so, I think it will be fine. But you might keep the towel/tub trick in mind for the summer...I lived in GA for several years, and it worked like a charm on those Hot-Lanta days.

[paul84043]

Has it been more active than that yet? Maybe the temp swings have slowed things down a tad....just keep an eye on it and as long as it keeps doing something, let it be!!!

[b3s]

no, but it's now up to 1 burp every 4 seconds. slow and steady.

[YamahaXS]

Do you have a basement storage closet? A basement is perfect; its dark, its always the same temperature, AND it keeps your beer out of your honey's line of sight!

Now, your basement MIGHT be a bit cold, especially for an Ale. If so, then buy a heater belt, and insulate the carboy with one fo the old ratty towels your wife has been trying to get you to throw away.

:)

If you are carrying your carboys around much, I highly recommend a handle. They are keep and make it quite easy to lift and carry your beer without 1) sloshing 2) busting up your back or 3) dropping it and severing tendons in your middle finger.

[b3s]

even indoors the temp is holding steady at 74F. hmmm, maybe i just needed to chill the wort faster or something?

my basement is a u-stor-it two miles away. moderately inconvenient, especially given my desire to sit and watch the brew ferment whilst surfing :D

yep, i think the problem was getting the wort cold enough fast enough. *sigh*

[spankymac]

Originally posted by b3s
yep, i think the problem was getting the wort cold enough fast enough. *sigh*

I bought a set of Phil's Phittings (http://www.listermann.com/Store/Details.asp?ID=438) and made my own counterflow wort chiller; you can also make an immersion chiller. The counterflow types cool faster, but they can be tedious to clean. Either one will speed up the process of getting to pitching temperature more quickly.

[b3s]

i think for my third brew (which will be a steeped grain) i'll definitely get a secondary fermenter, but possibly a wort chiller as well if i don't get that ice thing working on the 2nd batch. if the ice starts working, i think i'll get two secondaries so that i can brew another batch as soon as i rack :)

[paul84043]

74 is accpetable, it's on the high side, but it will work just fine.
The thing you worry about with the temp swings is shocking or killing the yeast off, since you have activity going on, you obviously haven't hurt anything yet.

Mine have hit 74 a couple of times, I have considered moving things into the basement, but right now that's actually too cold and I don't have a heater. I also worry about hoking up a heater, and them having things warm up too much...
The best setup is a refrigerator (or freezer) with a 2 stage controller running both a small 100W space heater and the refrigerator. Then you're set no matter what the outside temp does....
I picked up a single stage controller, but I think I'll go back and get the 2 stage as well...

[b3s]

well, i must not have shocked the yeast too much. last night i had to pull the airlock and setup a hose and bucket because of the violence of the nearly continuous reaction. now this morning it was pretty non-violent, but a nice steady bubble every second...and some waste inthe bucket.

*whew*

[Tweek]

make sure you put a bleach solution or some other sterile solution in that bucket. Once your ferment slows it can suck air back in bringing in some wild yeasts.

[b3s]

heh...thought about that this morning and put a teaspoon of bleach in there...but thanks for the reminder! i thought about that because i sanitized the hose, but then this morning i was thinking about the bucket itself.