The V-vessel is here!! Wooohoooo

[ray m]

I was pleased to see, when I came home from work last night, my newly arrived V-vessel from morebeer.com. Just in time for my brew day on Monday.

It looks like a very simple set-up and I think (& hope) will make my brewing life somewhat easier.

My next question is for anyone who may have one of these. I think I recall reading somewhere that Payson does. Are you satisfied with the purchase/results?? Is yeast harvesting from this device as easy & trouble-free as morebeer makes it sound? When is the best time, during the fermentation, to start harvesting the yeast?

Thanks in advance for any help!!

[Beaver]

So what is a V-vessel? Please inform the unenlightened among us? :)

[Payson]

I'm super pleased with mine. (The "V-Vessel" is a plastic conical fermentor with a bulb attached that allows for easy yeast harvesting. It also funnels away the dead yeast so a secondary becomes unnecessary. Additionally, when it comes time to bottle or keg you dont have to transfer to a bottling bucket.) As far as harvesting the yeast, I waited about a week and it was as easy as advertised. One hint that seemed to work great was the following: When you re-attach the clean bulb for the "secondary", purge it first with CO2. (assuming you have a tank) Likewise, purge your keg or TAD or even bottles if your so inclined. That way, it never comes into contact with oxygen at all. Beautiful!! Not to mention, the thing really is neat looking. You may need a blow off tube initially though. Good luck!

[ray m]

Thank you very much for the input, Payson. Two more questions about harvesting yeast from this: How often do you recommend taking the yeast ball off to collect the yeast, and how much yeast can I expect to get from the time one starts harvesting until one is ready to bottle. I'm really jazzed about this yeast harvesting thing!!

Beaver....if you want to read more about the V-vessel, check morebeer.com, or do a web search under "v-vessel". With the search, you'll find a couple of lengthy testimonials extolling the vessel's virtues.

I thought it was a nice, inexpensive alternative to a stainless conical, which costs several hundred $$ more, depending on what you want, size, etc. I paid $149 for mine. I will be sure to post my thoughts after it completes its maiden fermentation voyage.

[Beaver]

Thanks for the info!

[Payson]

To be vague I'd have to say the harvestable yeast is hugely dependant on the strain. As far as frequency of switching the bulb goes, I was told do it initially after roughly 7 days. I switched it as if it was a normal switch to the secondary. In other words, when the activity had subsided in the airlock to a point that I would normally switch to the secondary, I emptied the bulb. It was about 3/4 full of pure yeast. Plenty to re-use. In fact, it could be used to make multiple starters. As for the yeast in the bulb after the initial collection, I'm not so sure I'd use it for 2 reasons: 1) You will already have quite a bit. 2) It's viability may be an issue. It might be quite active and fine, I've just never quite trusted it. I'm happy to say that no yeast was clinging to the side of the conical neck either.

[kgaugler]

My only concern about the v-vessel is that it is still plastic. Plastic allows some air vapor to pass through over a period of time. Isn't this one of the other reasons for doing secondary (and I do primary) fermentation in glass? I know one of the reasons is to get the fermenting beer off the trub, but isn't the permeabilty of plastic an issue too?

[ray m]

So, Payson, if I understand you correctly, you wait until the "primary" is done (@ 7 days), remove the bulb and discard what is in there. Then, after a few more days (when 2ndary is done), you remove the bulb again & harvest everything in there(?). Then you bottle, I guess??

Kgaugler.....this device is made of extremely thick plastic. It looks to be, as Payson said in another thread, extremely well constructed. I asked someone from morebeer.com about the plastic=oxidation issue, and he replied that the beer is never in there long enough (plus the fact the plastic is so damned thick) for this to be a concern. I would say, though, that if you're going to brew a lager or something hardcore like a barleywine or an imperial stout that's gonna require a pretty long 2ndary, it would probably be best to switch over to a glass secondary (or get a stainless conical).

Since I brew mainly medium-bodied/gravity ales, this probably is not going to be an issue for me.

[Payson]

Ray M
I harvest out of the bulb initially and discard the secondary bulb yeast. I'm not worried about oxidation for the reasons previously mentioned.

[ray m]

I understand now....I wasn't reading your thread right, I guess.

Thanks again for the insight, Payson!

[fuji6100]

Plastic allows some air vapor to pass through over a period of time

I don't know why this is such a big myth/concern. Is there hard evidence that enough oxygen diffuses through plastic to make an iota of difference in the beer?

I have a hard time believing that beer sitting in a sealed plastic container could let even a fraction of the oxygen that racking, bottling, or even kegging exposes the beer too.

[barley ben]

Also, aren't they thick walled? This would allow even less oxygen to pass through. I can't see it being a problem but I'm no expert in plastics.

[ray m]

Fuji & Ben.....I have no personal experience with the plastic=oxygen debacle myself. I have only gone by the numerous things I've read about the issue. I started out, like the rest of us have, with fermenting in the standard-issue food grade plastic bucket and never had a problem. I guess I switched to glass more for the sake of "upgrading" and so I could watch my fermentation going, not because of an "oxygen scare".

After buying the V, and seeing its mutantly thick-walled construction, I must say that I am not a damned bit worried about the matter. As I see it, the only time that the beer is going to be exposed to O2 is when I aerate it, and when I drain it into the bottling bucket at bottling time. I am confident that I could leave my brew in the V for at least a month with nary a concern.

[barley ben]

If you are occasionally extracting the yeast from the bottom, can't you just add the priming solution to the Vessel and bottle directly from it?

[tubetek]

Howdy All-
The only thing keeping me from one of these puppies is the little matter of building a cabin while unemployed!!!
Anyway, If you're worried about the plastic/O2 issue be advised that beer in plastic is already being test-marketed in certain areas now. I bet that within about 2 years, most macros are in PET or soft Mylar packaging. Seems stupid from an environmental standpoint, but WTF??
Just keep collecting the crown-cap bottles and get into kegging...
Enjoy!!
TT

[Payson]

Ray M-
They do make an attachment that fits in place of the bulb for bottling. It's basically a barbed fitting that you attach a piece of tubing to. It eliminates the need to shift it into a bottling bucket. Did yours come with one? It actually allows for an oxygen free transfer to bottles or keg. (purged with co2).

[ray m]

Payson:

Yes, a barbed attachment and vinyl tubing came with the "V". I think it would rock if I did not have to transfer my brew to a bottling bucket at bottling time, but I think the tubing that came with the "V" is too big for my "Phil's Pfiller". Any suggestions, Payson?? (Maybe the key is that a bottling wand is not needed?---that would be risky and require a steady hand, no?)

[Payson]

Here's what I did: I had a "Phils psyphon" thingie that had a small piece of tubing that fits over standard syphon tubing. I'm not sure what its outer diameter was but it was a perfect, snug fit on the inside of the tube supplied with the v vessel and the standard tubing fit perfectly inside of it. It effectively created a coupler that allowed me to attach standard tubing to the larger tubing. Another option I plan on checking into is looking at Lowes to see if they have a brass or even PVC barbed reduction fitting. Lowes does have alot of tubing so I'm sure you can find a piece that'll allow you to fit it inside the larger and outside the smaller. Good luck!

[ray m]

I was thinking a little more about this tonite and was wondering the same thing, Payson....I have some errands to run tomorrow and I think Lowe's is one place where I will go. I am sure I can come up with something, if I do, I will let you know. I used to have a Phil's Psyphon Pstarter, but threw it out a couple years ago because I never used it....oh, well.

I was also wondering something else about the "V": the wort that initally gets into the yeast collection bulb prior to fermentation----does this eventually get displaced back up into the main fermenter body as the yeast falls out of suspension into the bulb? I'm also curious as to where all the break material I'm seeing in the lower half of the cone will end up. Thanks!!!! So far, so good, though.....it started fermenting @ 4 hours after I added my yeast starter:)

[Payson]

Ray-
The wort does seem to get displaced as the heavier yeast drops into it. I've noticed very little loss when all was said and done. The bulb will basically fill up with sludgey yeast. Regarding all of the "break material", I poured all of my wort through a fine sieve prior to the "V". That seemed to eliminate the vast majority of trub prior to fermentation. Alot settled out due to irish moss initially as well. If you have alot, I would smack the side of the "V" periodically to encourage it down into the bulb. Keep an eye on the fermentation too, you may need to switch to a blow off tube.

[ray m]

Again, Payson, many thanks for your advice. So far, the fermentation is going nicely----it looks like I have a 2" thick krausen layer on top, and the airlock is bubbling like hell (using White Labs London Ale yeast). It appears I have plenty of headspace left, so it looks like a blow-off will not be necessary.

I really hate to be pestering you about the V, but I have noticed already that the bulb does have some sediment in it (after not even 24 hours). It's about 1/5 full right now. Dunno if it's yeast or break material (I can't imagine it's yeast already). I pour my beer through a strainer, too on its way into the fermenter. When I was doing so, I did not get a lot of gloopy stuff in it this time, and there was hardly any at the bottom of the pot as the last of the wort went in. Did you also notice the same doings going on?

[Payson]

Mine was pretty seperated when I poured it through the strainer...to the point that the goop made somewhat of a filter bed. I used a good deal of grain so that may have played a role. Also, Irish Moss. My strainer is super fine too. Worst case scenario, you'll lose a litte beer emptying your bulb but I wouldn't worry. Next batch you could add a little extra to compensate for it.

[ray m]

Cool. I think all I'll do is just take your original advice, harvest the yeast out of the bulb after 7 or so days and move on. I didn't really want to do anything radically different than what I've been doing for the last couple years, so I think all will be good.:)

I did the usual addition of Irish moss, etc., etc. I'm not at all concerned about losing a little beer. I am already convinced this thing is going to save me a significant amount of time & trouble.

[Payson]

I feel the same way about it. I'm already wishing I had another. Let me know if you find good coupler thigamajig for the racking tube/cane at the hardware store!

[ray m]

I went to Lowe's this morning and I could not locate one. I think the tubing that came with the V is 5/8" o.d.(?). Standard transfer tubing is, I think, 3/8". They did not have a 3/8 x 5/8 barbed coupler. My quest continues.

Speaking of this, have you bottled the 1st batch out of your V yet, and did you do it straight from the vessel?? If so, did you have any problems with stirring up a lot of excess leftover sediment back into the beer when you added priming sugar? This issue would be the only one that would stop me from bottling directly out of the V. After this Payson, I promise no more questions!

[Payson]

I'm on a quest as well for a coupler. I'll let you know if I find anything suitable. I have bottled and kegged directly out of it with great success. This past weekend I bottled about a dozen 12 oz'ers using "carbonation drops" and then put the rest in the keg for force carbonation and instant gratification. So, I haven't had the opportunity to prime directly in it yet put I figure I'll try that soon. I plan on emptying the bulb a 2nd or a 3rd time and then adding the priming sugar in solution into the top. I figure since it'll already be dissolved it shouldn't take much if any agitation to get it evenly distributed. Hopefully just gentle rocking. That's just a guess though so we'll see. Keep me posted and I'll do the same. As for the questions, keep 'em coming and we'll both soon have the whole process ironed out!

[ray m]

I am going to try it, I think.....emptying the bulb again before bottling would be a good idea---not gonna lose that much beer. I am confident I'll find a coupler. If I do, I'll let you know. I've got a couple weeks to try to find one. Thanks!

[HarkJohnny]

a question for V owners:

how big is the unit and how heavy does this thing get when full? and where do you have yours mounted?

I'm becoming super interested in this because of all the great feedback from everyone, but thinking I'll have to resort to building something to use it. Not that it's a big deal, might even give me a reason to start finishing off the basement!

[Payson]

When full it's about as heavy as a bottling bucket w/ 5 gallons in it. Mine is mounted to a 1 x 8 that I mounted to a single wall stud. It's not as unwieldy as you might think. With the bulb removed it fits or can be braced in a standard fermenting bucket making it easy to pour the wort into. Its a fine investment!

[Caffinehog]

I'm going to build a stand for mine with 2x4's when I get it. Easy, portable, and not permanent.

[ray m]

I have mine mounted onto 2 pieces of 2x4, one on top of another, which are then mounted onto 2 wall studs in my laboratory. Very, very little space is taken up with this. If I win the lottery, I'll buy V-vessel's for everybody!!!:)

[kujo]

I just discovered this thread after finding a thread asking about the v-vessel in the "in general" forum --> http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14593

I had never heard of the v-vessel, and it's really exciting! My question, though, is this: after a little over three years since this thread started, do the original posters still own their v-vessels? Are you still using them? Have you run into any issues? Have you had to replace any parts? Have you figured out the tubing/bottling conundrum described in this thread?

I'd love to know how it's going and if you're still happy with the v-vessel, because, like a lot of folks, I could never justify $500+ for a SS conical :-/

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by kujo

I'd love to know how it's going and if you're still happy with the v-vessel, because, like a lot of folks, I could never justify $500+ for a SS conical :-/

check out minibrew.com

I have the 8 gallon model

[kujo]

I dunno that I'd want to go this route, really. One thing I like about the v-vessel is its size/price ratio compared to the conicals I've seen. It's a good $65 less than the equivalent sized minibrew. I also like the yeast collection idea, because it means I don't have to hack a solution together to do the same thing with the conical (for the extra money I shouldn't have to hack it at all).

At $135 for ~6.5 gallons, I can add one when I get around to moving to a 10-gallon batch size.... but I still have the flexibility of doing multiple 6.5 gallons with the same setup, or splitting a batch to test the effects of different yeast on the same batch of beer.

From the reviews I saw early on, people seemed to like the v-vessels - I just wonder if they've held up.

[hooky]

Do you hang this thing on the wall?

[Payson]

From the reviews I saw early on, people seemed to like the v-vessels - I just wonder if they've held up.
Brew is in mine as we speak. Love it! Looks as new as the day I got it.
Do you hang this thing on the wall?
You can, it comes with a bracket.

[kujo]

Thanks a lot - that really says a good deal about this piece of equipment. Now I just have to build the case to get funding! ;-)

[raedan]

I have two and only used one at the moment but what I see as a problem is how to heat them. I used a heat belt but it didn't really do the job. Do you have any suggestions? The brew was fine and only bottled it yesterday. It took longer than normal as it fermented slower because it was a lower temperature sometimes as low as 10 C
Cheers Danny.:D

[Drnk_McDermott]

That's quite an interesting idea. With the intermission of a few months since this thread started here are some more questions:
Has anyone with two of the V-Vessels tried pulling the yeast from one, attaching it to the other, and just racking fresh wort on top of it? (I suppose if I ever did two brews close together, I could just dump the yeast into my old trusty Ale Pail)
What about temperatures? One could build an enclosure around it to maintain warmth for ales, I suppose, but has anyone successfully lagered with one?
Hey, what if someone just adapted one of those bulbous collection vessels to a regular conical fermenter?

It's a pretty cool looking device. Hope to be able to expand brewing operations at a new house soon.

[Old CW4]

I've done three batches of beer in my V and currently have six gallons of red wine in it doing a secondary of 30 days and perhaps another globe dump and 30 more after that. I'm not the least concerned about oxidation and have seen no evidence of it.

I haven't harvested any yeast and can't comment on that. However, I do like the the ridiculous ease of going from primary to secondary by just dumping the sediment from the globe, cleaing it, and putting it back. I'm even considering getting a second V.

[Old CW4]

Bottling from the V vessel is duck soup. The various types of tubing fit inside each other and form a leak proof "splice." I have about three inches of the big tubing over the V attachment spout, a foot of small diameter tubing slipped into that, and my bottling cane on the end. I sit there on a folding chair and zip, zip, it's done.

As for priming sugar, I pour that in the top, then use the long handled stirring gizmo to twirl it around a bit to form a vortex. I let that settle down a half hour or so and then bottle.

[Test_Engineer]

Looks like a great idea. For me, money on brewing equipment is not that big of a deal(I love beer too damn much to go cheap), so my question to those that are using it is: Is the $80 difference compared to the MiniBrew Conical just a pure financial decision or does it actually work just as good. One thing I like about the MiniBrew Conical is the large opening at the top for dry hopping, fixing small scratches in the plastic, and even cleaning it for that matter seems easier with the MiniBrew. I realize I could have 3 fermenters going instead of 2 for the same price, but I'm not completely sold on the V-Vessel just yet.

And as for the collection vessel being a selling point, you can do the same thing with the MiniBrew by attaching a length of large tubing to the bottom valve.