Secondary Fermenter

[Shooter]

First-time brewer here looking for some advice. . . .

I have a batch fermenting now and was wondering whether or not I should use a secondary fermenter. I've been told that it improves clarity by reducing some of the sediment, but I'm wondering if I will lose anything in the taste and body of the beer.

Basically, I was wondering if someone could give me some advantages and disadvantages for doing this?

I would appreciate any feedback.

[b3s]

hey, me too :)

i'm a first timer as well, and my plan was to forgo racking on my first two beers. i was reading john palmer's online book at howtobrew.com and his recommendation is to not rack at first, even though he apparently is all for racking in general because of the clarity issue (heh, and i suppose then your primary is available for your next beer!).

basically, before i spend the bucks i'm gonna see if i'm serious about this home brewing thing. if i am, then i might just skip the hole glass carboy thing and go right to conical fermenters (no need to rack again).

so if there is indeed a really compelling reason for me to go and get another plastic bucket for a secondary fermentor, i'd love to hear about it as well.

[YamahaXS]

I always rack to a carboy so i think it is worth the effort, which really isn't that much. a glass carboy doesn't cost too much and You should go ahead and buy a rubberized handle to facilitate moving it and washing it.

Plastic supposedly can impart flavors into your beer. The trub that is left over after the initial fermentation can leave protiens in your beer that will cause your beer to be hazy. Perhaps even a little off flavor.


Chances are, you won't notice any of these things for your first few batches.

[b3s]

is that true with those conical fermenters as well? should one rack from those? just wondering.

[YamahaXS]

i haven't used a conical... they are super nice tho because you just empty the trub without having to move the beer. they are pricey tho! a lot more pricey than a carboy.

[b3s]

would it be appropriate to use the bottling bucket as the secondary fermenter, then? i mean, given no drips, etc.

[Shooter]

My biggest concern is whether or not I need to leave the majority of the sediment/yeast in the primary fermenter to achieve the best results for the rest of the fermentation process. I guess that I am unsure as to how active the remaining yeast will be for the second week.

[YamahaXS]

Originally posted by b3s
would it be appropriate to use the bottling bucket as the secondary fermenter, then? i mean, given no drips, etc.

i don't think that would work as the bottling bucket I have has a good .5-1" between the spigot and the bottom of the bucket.

You wouldn't be able to pull all the trub out of there.

[YamahaXS]

Originally posted by Shooter
My biggest concern is whether or not I need to leave the majority of the sediment/yeast in the primary fermenter to achieve the best results for the rest of the fermentation process. I guess that I am unsure as to how active the remaining yeast will be for the second week.

the nice thing about beer is that you really have to do very little.

I don' t know for sure on the conicals, but I suspect that no matter how you remove the trub, whether racking to a carboy, or by dumping from a conical, there will still be enough yeast floating around to maintain secondary carbination. I know for a fact that If you rack to a carboy, you don't have to worry about it at all.

[mountain beer]

I think you should rack to a secondary. The 5 gal carboy's are only $12 to $15. After your first couple of batches you will want to see more clarity in your brew. I would agree that you might not want to use a secondary for your first 1 or 2 brews. When I first starated, I could not wait to start drinking my own creation. The quicker I could drink it the better. Once you have some beer stashed away, you are going to want to make the best beer possible.

[Moboy]

Personally, I would never use a plastic fermenter/bottling bucket for a secondary fermenter. Although it is food grade plastic, some gases can still penetrate it after extended periods of time. Go ahead and spend the $15, it is well worth it and you can view your beer while it is conditioning.

[CaptHook]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shooter
[B]First-time brewer here looking for some advice. . . .

Basically, I was wondering if someone could give me some advantages and disadvantages for doing this?

I won"t bore you right now, when you get a chance read Charlies
or John Palmers book for the details.
The first 3 to 7 days is the heavy ferment and dropping out the
nasty stuff. If you take a reading you will see that it has dropped
about 3/4 of it's total points. By transfering at this point, you now have clean yeast and beer in a clean container. It then can condition as long as you like. 5 to 7 days is normal. If you had to, you could leave it for a month! Yes this period is needed for the yeast to complete their active cycle(1 week is good). When you prime for bottling(or keg) you start a 2nd ferment.The small amount of sugar gives you the gas you want in the container.
without blowing the caps off. The bounus you get is very clean yeast in the 2nd carboy, this can be saved and reused.
and it's Free!!! You do know the story about the young bull and the old one, don't you?

[CaptHook]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shooter
[B]First-time brewer here looking for some advice. . . .

Basically, I was wondering if someone could give me some advantages and disadvantages for doing this?

I won"t bore you right now, when you get a chance read Charlies
or John Palmers book for the details.
The first 3 to 7 days is the heavy ferment and dropping out the
nasty stuff. If you take a reading you will see that it has dropped
about 3/4 of it's total points. By transfering at this point, you now have clean yeast and beer in a clean container. It then can condition as long as you like. 5 to 7 days is normal. If you had to, you could leave it for a month! Yes this period is needed for the yeast to complete their active cycle(1 week is good). When you prime for bottling(or keg) you start a 2nd ferment.The small amount of sugar gives you the gas you want in the container.
without blowing the caps off. The bounus you get is very clean yeast in the 2nd carboy, this can be saved and reused.
and it's Free!!! You do know the story about the young bull and the old one, don't you?

[spankymac]

I always do the primary fermentation in a 6.5-gallon glass carboy. If I'm brewing from grain, or using a grain and extract blend, then I use a 5-gallon carboy for the secondary. If I'm making a quick brew from extract only, then it isn't worth the trouble to siphon it off into another tank before bottling. If there's grain in the recipe, I've had better success with the two-step process; there seem to be more solids to settle out. The only time I'd use a bottling bucket is when I'm bottling; plastic absorbs flavors from one batch to the next, and the longer the brew stays in plastic, the greater chance that something left from last time will seep into this time.

[paul84043]

I had always heard that the biggest reason to rack to a secondary is to get the beer off of the trub. (dead and settled yeast, solidified protiens and other goodies that have fallen out of suspension)
The yeast begins to break down after only a short period of time, this will cause sour and or off flavors.

There is enough yeast still in suspension to continue it's work and to carbonate.

I use a conical (actually two of them now) and have noticed absolutely no "plasticky" flavors, or any other off flavor for that matter....but I am pretty serious about cleaning it out GOOD when I'm done with a batch. I will only scrub it once, but will soak it with a bleach solution until the beer smell is gone. Then it gets rinsed until the Bleach smell is gone, then sanitized. Then sanitized again before re-use.
So far so good.

As for the original question...yes, I would defnintely rack to a secondary!

[Shooter]

I appreciate the advice of all who have responded. As former first-timer yourselves, you can imagine my anxiety for my first batch. I am hopeful that it turns out successful, but there is that element of doubt that creeps in.

Although I've only begun to learn about homebrewing, it is quickly becoming an obsession. This forum is exactly what I needed to find as an awesome source of information.

At any rate, I just moved my batch into a secondary fermenter. It looked like beer and smelled like beer, so it was good for my confidence. Unfortunately, all I have is plastic for the moment, but I may have to remedy that after this first batch.

Thanks for the help! I'm sure I'll have many more questions down the road. . . . .

[CaptHook]

Something to look forward to,I consume 5 gals (2 cases,1 keg)
per week. At present the inventory is 20 kegs, 16 Ales and 4 Lagers. Now I can relaxe and go back to 5 gal experiments.

[spankymac]

Originally posted by paul84043
The yeast begins to break down after only a short period of time, this will cause sour and or off flavors.

Regarding a secondary fermentation: I seem to remember Papazian writing that two or three weeks in the primary tank wouldn't degrade the finished product, but I think I'd say a week or ten days. In any case, its a good habit to develop, I think.

[paul84043]

I have never attempted to find out how long it takes to ruin a batch of beer! I think I'll just stick to what works and keep the nasty stuff out of the mixture...I had heard that it was quite a bit faster than that, but I can't seem to remember where I heard it.

[b3s]

ok, now i'm getting concerned.

why is it that the two references i've used for beginners (john palmer and charlie papazian) both say that your first couple of batches can sit in the primary for the 2-3 weeks?

by ruin do you mean "really bad beer...may as well have had a natural light" or by ruin do you mean "once you start racking you'll understand, grasshopper"

[paul84043]

Naw, probably not enough of a difference that you would be able to tell with your first couple of batches. I think that it's still going to be far better than what you can buy at the store! I guess that they don't want to overburden beginners, just let them make a couple of batches and see that it can be done! If you feel confident and capable, I'd transfer. You're going to have to tackle it sooner or later.

[b3s]

i will now resume not worrying :) i think my first two batches will involve a single fermenter, then i'll get a 5-gallon glass carboy for a secondary (hmmm, maybe two...that way when i rack the first batch i can start the second one right away....hmmmm)

[spankymac]

Originally posted by b3s
by ruin do you mean "really bad beer...may as well have had a natural light" or by ruin do you mean "once you start racking you'll understand, grasshopper"

This is just my opinion, based only on my own experience and not any scientific research: Papazian and Palmer are both writing for the beginning homebrewer, and they take into account the fact that, excepting a batch that has soured or become otherwise contaminated, just about any homebrew tastes better than American mass-produced domestic lager, so 'slightly off' wouldn't be considered 'ruined.' I have been brewing for only ten years or so, and not in the same league with many of the others who post here, so my experience is limited to 30 or so batches. I think an extract-only brew can sit in the primary for 10 days to 2 weeks without serious degradation, and perhaps even longer. Ingredients, equipment, fermenting temps and sanitation habits could vary the time significantly. Papazian, as I recall, says in several places (I paraphrase), you can do thus-and-so, but your brew will be at its best if you do such-and-such.

In other words, if conditions are good, you could leave your extract-only beer in the primary for 3 or 4 weeks, and still have a result that is worth drinking...but it wouldn't be 'at its best.'

[toneyc]

I haven't noticed any of the plasticky flavors mentioned above, my primary reason for racking the beer is clarity. Now, by clarity in this case, I do not mean to get crystal clear beer. The few batches that I have let sit in the primary bucket for 2-4 weeks and then kegged have all been kinda chunky and racking the beer halfway seems to get rid of the chunks. And they had a little harsher taste than I expected, as well.

Y'all got me thinking about getting a 6.5 gallon carboy for a primary, though. A little paranoia never hurt anyone.

:) Toney.

[Tweek]

Everyone who brews on a regular basis, or that wants to brew the best that they can should move to glass or stainless fermenters. Plastic absorbs flavors and after time will impart something into your beers, no matter how clean you keep it. Glass is just as inexpensive as plastic. Make the move you wont regret it.

[yonkersbrewer]

Another reason for getting a carboy and racking over to secondary is the ability to reuse the yeast and make a second batch right on top of the first.

I often do this since I have only room for a half batch sized fermenter etc. So I might buy a kit, split it in half, ferment the first half and then rack off to the seconary then scoop most of the trub off out of the primary and install another batch right on top of the trub. I have done this several times and get a killer fermentation and good results from this method. Yes, I know that I did not sterilize between batches but the massive pitching of yeast seems and the care between racking and installing the second batch seems to have protected me.