Ale yeast for Lager results.

[barley ben]

Does anyone know what ale yeast strain would create the closest to lager results. I want to make a lager type brew but don't have the refrideration for it. I figured I will find a Lager recipe I like and use an ale strain that will finish the dryest and crispest without too much fruitiness. I know it won't be the same but maybe similar.

[Caffinehog]

If you can find a cool area of your house, (maybe 65 degrees) try a Kolsch ale yeast or a california common yeast.

Also, give a lager yeast a try at room temperature. I've tried a couple beers made this way, and they're pretty doggone good.

[toneyc]

I've used Kolsch yeast at about 70*F several times and it turns out great! It is the yeast for AHS Texas Blonde Shiner Blonde clone.

:)
Toney.

[barley ben]

Tne room I keep my beer in hold it at about 66-68 degrees. Gets kinda tricky while primary is going on though. The fermentation warms itself up for a day or two. The room is still cool but the carboy is at 70-72. Once it calms down the temp drops back to 66-68. Do ya think that will be too high for this?

[secur8eguy]

Give Danstar Nottingham a try. It's cheaper(than liquid) and can even brew down to 14c(57f).

[kgaugler]

Try Wyeast #2112 California Lager. It is the yeast I use for my Anchor Steam Clone. It maintains lager-like fermentation up to 68F (or at least that's what Wyeast says). I typically am in the 60-62 range and it comes out great. The temperature you are worried about is the room (or ambient) temperature, it is normal to have some heat generated by the fermentation itself.

[barley ben]

I went with the White Labs california lager. Didn't get to make a starter though. Wanted to brew it last night so I went to the store and did it. No time for a starter which I always do with White Labs. Now I'm sitting here waiting for some sort of activity. Pitched it at 10:00 last night and now it's 1:00 in the afternoon. Hope I get something soon, I can't stand long lag times. I usually get activity within 4-8 hours. It's been 15 hours and the sanitizer in the airlock is still sitting even.

[barley ben]

Oh yean, and I did what they said. I pitched at 75 and now it's sitting at 64 degrees.

[kgaugler]

I find the White Labs yeasts take a bit of time to get started. Just be a bit patient...

[barley ben]

Patients? Whats that!!!

So its been like 40 minutes since my last post and I'm horrible with patients. I've checked it like 10 times since then and it's is showing first sighs of activity. No bubbles yet but the sanitizer in the airlock it starting to push.

I love short lag times. I always brew in the evening and wake up to bubbles galor! This is the first time I didn't wake up to any. Lokks like it's starting to happen though.

One more thing. What kinda activity should I expect? This is the first bottom fermenting stain I have ever used. Ales swirl around and get thick krausen on top. Will this just sit there and do nothing but bubble the airlock or will it still swirl and foam? Keep in mind it at the high end of the temp(low 60's).

[barley ben]

I went back to the store and bought some dry Nottingham. I was wrong about it starting and still nothing. How long should I be patient before I pitch this in. Unless someone tells me different, I'm going out to dinner and then if there is still nothing when I get back, I'm pitching the dry yeast in. It will be 24 hours almost. How long is long enough?

[kgaugler]

Is there any pressure building at all? Is the upside-down cup in the airlock lifted off the tube? If it is, give it some more time. I've had some not start actually bubbling for up to 36 hours. How long was the yeast out of the fridge before you pitched it? Did you let it warm up?

Anyone else, if I'm off base here, please step in.

[barley ben]

The cap on the air-lock is how it is supposed to be and no, there isn't any pressure building what so ever. I actually checked the whole air-lock. I know it's hard to have a pressure leak on a carboy but I checked anyway. I've re-aggitated twice today just for the heck of it. Shook the carboy once and stirred it with the skinny end of my spoon for boiling once. Still not a sign of life.

The yeast was warmed to room temp(out of the fridge for like 6 hours before pitching).

[Caffinehog]

White labs seems to take a few days to really go, but there should be activity within 48 hours... if it's just a bit of fizz when you stir it. Wyeast seems to take even longer for me.

Patience is important... and white labs yeast produces a lot better beer than the nottingham, even though the nottingham is faster. Just be patient, and next time try making a starter beforehand or using the old yeast cake if you want a faster start.

[barley ben]

I almost aways use starters but it was just one of those times it didn't fit into the schedule. Found out I didn't have to work so decided to brew. No time for a starter. Just bought the stuff, came home and brewed. I am pretty sanitary about my brewing so how long do you think it is safe till some other bacteria takes over. Let's face it, there is still bacteria/wild yeast in the air. Just seems like a long time for the air in the heaspace to be sitting on my beer with no CO2 to push it out. I'll give it till tomorrow.

Thanks for helping my patients!! If it wasn't for all of you, I would have dumped for yeast in this afternoon. I'll let ya's know what happened.

As far as the different yeast times. I have found dry is the quickest but so neutral. It is my back-up for this case. Wyeast is pretty quick if you activate it the day before and aerate. As far as White Labs, I usually get activity in less than 8 hours with a starter. This is the first time I used it without one. I can't give my actual times since as I said previously in this thread, I brew in the evening and always wake up to a bubbling carboy.

[Caffinehog]

What was the expiration date on that yeast? The closer you are to that, or the further past it you are, the longer it will take. Plus, this is a lager yeast, so it may act differently than an ale yeast. Don't expect any yeast on the surface for one thing.

If you still have doubts, sanitize a long spoon and give it a stir, watching for fizz.

[barley ben]

Even though it doesn't matter anymore, it is Feb. 8,2004. After 36 hours it finally took off. Damn that's a long time. How much time does lager yeast usually take with a starter and decent aeration?

And it deffinately is not as fun to watch. The airlock is going good and there is a big layer of WHITE foam on top. Not the usual sludgey foam. The only swirling is a bit at the bottom that is all in small clumps.

One other concern is I can't get it under 68-70. The yeast says it maintains lager characteristics up to 65. It was down there but warmed itself up a bit now that it fermenting. I have a shirt over it dipped in water but it is still showing 69. I know when it calms down it will drop back into the lower 60's again. Do you think it's going take still keep it's lager style at that temp?

[fretlessman71]

Did you add ice to the water at the bottom? Just a thought....

[barley ben]

I have the shirt in ice water but I don't have anything big enough to sit the carboy in to give it a mild ice bath. Guess I could go to the dollar store and get a aluminum turkey pan. Maybe I'll do that and just add a bit of ice to it so I can maintain the temp through primary. After that the temp should drop back into the proper range. Then again I could keep an eye on it throughout the whole thing and try icing it to an even lower temp. Maybe 60 degrees.

[fretlessman71]

Go to Wal Mart and get one of those huge buckets with the rope handles - that'll hold it!

[kgaugler]

Hey Barley, 36 hours is about what I average with the Wyeast. What temperature is the room? It's normal for the fermentation to generate heat. It is my understanding the important thing is the AMBIENT temperature.

[barley ben]

The room is about 65 since every thermometer in there says that. That was about the temp of the wort before the yeast started. Then it warmed itself up to 70. I have it in a mild ice bath and it's down to 66-68. That's about as far down as I'm gonna take it today. I don't want to shock the yeast with a drastic change. I'm off work for the next two days so I think I'mn just going to use the ice bath to control the temp till it calms down and drops temp by itself.

[barley ben]

I thought of another question for ya's.

So it's the fifth day of active fermentation and the airlock is showing signs of slowing. It's been at 65 degrees the whole time. Once it's ready to go to secondary, how long should I keep it there before kegging. My ales usually sit for 2 weeks in secondary. Because it's at ale temps, do you think that is good or should I give it a few more weeks since it is a lager strain? Seems with the temperature it should be ready after a couple weeks in the secondary.