Suggested beers to go with a particular menu

[aquarius]

I'm putting together a menu for a dinner for five people -- three men, two women -- and I'd like to serve beer instead of wine through the meal. I've found some general tips around the web as to how to match beers with food, but I'd appreciate any further suggestions as to the best beer to match with each course. We're in the UK, so we may not be able to obtain speciality American beers before the meal (which is in just over a month).

The menu

Starter
White stilton on a toasted bread roundel, drizzled with warmed apple sauce

Main course
Beef Wellington (a rib of beef en croute, with mushroom stuffing), new potatoes, and vegetables

Dessert
Monk's Lust (a very sweet and rich dessert based around double cream and natural yoghurt, with pineapple chunks and heavy muscovado sugar)

Cheese and biscuits

Any thoughts gratefully accepted.

sil

[brewmonkey]

You might check out this site (http://www.beercook.com/beercheese/pairingbeercheese.htm) for some info.


For the Stilton I would look at something like a bitter or an IPA, or something else with hops.

For the Beef Wellington, I would think something like a brown or an amber. The brown sounds better to me, go with something like a Nut Brown. Goose Island, if you can get it makes a decent nut brown.

For the desert I am not sure, as you have pineapples in it and I cannot think of anything that might match that.

For the final beer of the evening I would get some Imperial Stout or Barleywine and give everyone a small (6-8oz) snifter of it to sit over well your meal starts to digest.

[aquarius]

I thought about the bitter or something hoppy, after reading up somewhat, to go with the Stilton. What concerns me there is that I'm using white stilton, rather than blue -- the flavour's a bit more subtle and undertoned, and it's mitigated further by the sweetness of the apple sauce, so I worry that something like a bitter or well-hopped IPA might overwhelm it slightly.
The nut brown to go with the Wellington sounds like a great suggestion to me; I don't know Goose Island but I'll look out for it!
Like you, I'm a bit unclear what to put with the dessert; it's really seriously sweet, and I'm worried about not being able to find anything to match it.
Thanks also for the final beer suggestion; I was planning on brandy with cigars, but I see no reason why a good heavy Imperial Stout wouldn't do an admirable job in the same place!

[steveh]

I was going to suggest Lucy Saunders site as well, thanks to Brewmonkey for finding it.

I'll take a stab at how I'd set up some pairing...

Originally posted by aquarius
The menu

Starter
White stilton on a toasted bread roundel, drizzled with warmed apple sauce

A nice pale ale would do well here. Brew suggested an IPA, and the English IPAs are a bit less hoppy than the American rendition, so a Young's might be nice, if not a little assertive over the stilton.

Main course
Beef Wellington (a rib of beef en croute, with mushroom stuffing), new potatoes, and vegetables

Cropton Monkman's Slaughter, a strong ESB, would be a nice hearty ale to compliment the beef and vegetables. Fullers ESB would be a good alternative, or even a second. As Brew said, a nut brown would be good, but I just tried the Sam Smith Nut Brown for the first time in a few years and was a little disappointed - it was a bit lackluster in flavor. A porter would also do well with this course.

Dessert
Monk's Lust (a very sweet and rich dessert based around double cream and natural yoghurt, with pineapple chunks and heavy muscovado sugar)

As this is a very sweet dish, perhaps a nice dry stout would compliment by contrast. Even Guinness Extra Stout, with its roasty bitterness, would make a nice contrast to the sweetness of the dessert.

Cheese and biscuits

Hmm, will these be served as a finish to the dinner, or just as noshes throughout the evening? Also, what cheeses will be available? A nice light lager (Spaten, Paulaner, even Harp) might prove a subtle drink for washing down the flavors of a good sharp cheddar, or a Swiss. Perhaps a good bitter or mild too.

I like Brewmonkey's idea of topping the evening with a good sipping beer and will add Fuller's Vintage ale to the list.

Michael Jackson's book, Ultimate Beer has terrific pairing suggestions to food and would be worth seeking out for more reference.

S.

[aquarius]

Thanks for the suggestions, steveh. I'm building up quite a library of ideas here!
As this is a very sweet dish, perhaps a nice dry stout would compliment by contrast. Even Guinness Extra Stout, with its roasty bitterness, would make a nice contrast to the sweetness of the dessert.
Really? I'd have thought that it'd taste appalling, having tried drinking beer after very sweet food in the past. I'll give it a shot and report back.
(cheese and biscuits) Hmm, will these be served as a finish to the dinner, or just as noshes throughout the evening? Also, what cheeses will be available?
We tend to go a bundle on cheeses, picking ones that we haven't tried before and providing a reasonably full board. There's therefore likely to be a full complement, ranging from a soft blue like Dolcelatte through Bavarian smoked and Jarlsberg to your sharp Cheddars and the like. I do like the idea of finishing the whole meal on the sipping beer (in the same way you might use port or brandy in a wine-based cuisine), and I'd say you want something reasonably full-flavoured to go with the variety of cheeses, but not enough to drown them out. I've looked at Lucy Saunders' site, but it's nice to hear extra endorsements of what it has to say!
Thanks again for the suggestions.

[steveh]

Originally posted by aquarius
Really? I'd have thought that it'd taste appalling, having tried drinking beer after very sweet food in the past. I'll give it a shot and report back.

I've posted elsewhere of my discovery that Guinness Extra and Oreo cookies are an amazingly delicious pair! Looking at Jackson's book (Ultimate Beer), he also suggests sweet beers to pair with sweet desserts - I'm afraid it would be too much sweetness for me.

We tend to go a bundle on cheeses, picking ones that we haven't tried before and providing a reasonably full board. There's therefore likely to be a full complement, ranging from a soft blue like Dolcelatte through Bavarian smoked and Jarlsberg to your sharp Cheddars and the like.

In looking through Jackson's book last night, he also pairs a few Belgian beers with cheese; Chimay being an obvious choice (though not to my poor memory) because the brotherhood also makes gourmet cheeses.

I do like the idea of finishing the whole meal on the sipping beer (in the same way you might use port or brandy in a wine-based cuisine), and I'd say you want something reasonably full-flavoured to go with the variety of cheeses, but not enough to drown them out.

Please write us a follow-up on the dinner, it will be interesting to hear the menu and diners' impressions.

S.

[aquarius]

I have every intention of writing a followup -- you chaps have been thoroughly helpful! It's not for a month or so, though, so you have to wait a little.
I think I will *try* stout with a sweet dessert first before giving it to guests, especially since two of the guests are women who aren't beer drinkers!

[steveh]

A month away, you have plenty of time for experimentation! Hmm, 2 non-beer drinkers - you may want to have back-ups. Some Belgian Lambics may surprise beer skeptics.

S.

[brewmonkey]

I can get Chimay cheese here in KC and if you have not had it, IT IS DAMNED GOOD!

[steveh]

Hmm, I wonder if I can find it near me anywhere... Time to hunt!

S.

[MeridianFC]

Just to throw some more wood on the fire:

Starter
White stilton on a toasted bread roundel, drizzled with warmed apple sauce

I'd guess you'd want to go for something dry and aperitief like. I'd normally recommend a moderate Gueze, like the Cuvee Renee, but it doesn't seem like it would match this very well. Maybe something simple like Brooklyn Pilsner. Any other beer that has a dash of hop, but is restrained enough to let the milder flavor of the white stilton come through.

Main course
Beef Wellington (a rib of beef en croute, with mushroom stuffing), new potatoes, and vegetables

A dark lager of some stripe might be good here. Hearty beer for hearty meat. If you can find a good dunkel that might be yer man, I find they go very good with meat. Ayinger Altbairisch Dunkel perhaps?

Dessert
Monk's Lust (a very sweet and rich dessert based around double cream and natural yoghurt, with pineapple chunks and heavy muscovado sugar)

This is the tough one. The only thing I can think of that might work is Fantome, a Waloonian saison. There's essence of passoin fruit (or somesuch) and it would either be a perfect match or aweful (the beer is great no worries there). You've got some time before hand, get to the research!

Cheese and biscuits

Definitely some stripe of barley wine or old ale as has been suggested above. Depending on the cheese, JW Lees Moonraker or Anchor's Old Foghorn. They're both on the lower end of gravity for barley wines, but have nice flavors that should make for a nice post meal measure. The Moonraker has a bit more of roast character, the Foghorn a bit more of the hop.

[steveh]

Another alternative guideline discovered, from Stephen Beaumont, no less:

http://www.beertown.org/education/pairing.html

S.

[hopjack13]

i don't think stephen knows what he's talking about .......i didn't see oreos and stouts anywhere on that list! :p

[fretlessman71]

Beware of the Oreo and Guinness XS combo... it's certainly an acquired taste! ;)

[studentofbeer]

do you dip the oreos in the beer? :p

for dessert i was thinking perhaps chimay blue? or a sweet/milk stout like dragons milk?

or maybe that's the wrong tack... how about going with a fruit flavored beer? grant's new mandarin hefeweizen, tho i found it to be more fruit and less beer, might be a good idea. or pyramid's apricot ale. all are sweet and easy to drink and may go well with the pineapple if you can find them.

[newportstorm]

For dessert, I'd go sweet/sweet or sweet/sour. I saw someone mentioned lambics. That would be my suggestion as well. At Thanksgiving I paired a fresh lemon meringue pie with Dogfish Head Festina Lente (peach lambic) and it was great. Go for an authentic fruit lambic such as Cantillon Rose de Gambrinus or Kriek. If you want to stay sweeter, Lindeman's lambics would work (though they're not my favorite). Hope everything tastes great.

Cheers!

[steveh]

Originally posted by hopjack13
i don't think stephen knows what he's talking about .......i didn't see oreos and stouts anywhere on that list! :p

He he he he - I'll send him a note!

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Beware of the Oreo and Guinness XS combo... it's certainly an acquired taste!

Easily acquired, that is. ;)

S.

Ever had a nice flourless chocolate cake with a hearty zinfandel or port for dessert? Same concept.

[steveh]

Originally posted by studentofbeer
do you dip the oreos in the beer? :p

Well, sometimes!

S.

[hopjack13]

yeah, sometimes ;)
depends on how much beer you've had...and it all comes out the same anyway....

[steveh]

Originally posted by hopjack13
yeah, sometimes
depends on how much beer you've had...

Naw, you have to dip it just to say you tried, but not after a bite outta the cookie, no crumbs in the pint bottom! What are you suggesting anyway? It doesn't take fermented courage to make me crazy! ;)

S.

[Herb Ninja]

Don't forget the lambic?(kinda expensive) ;) Go with Cantillion, maybe the framboise or gueuze. Peace, HN-

[stronk]

OK (if you're still reading this thread): as I'm also in the UK, I can suggest beers you can actually find here without resorting to praying to oracles at full moon.

You want to get the women on your side, so maybe a lambic (they do actually brew and sell these in England) in reserve for the stilton is a good idea (I can't think of anything else sweet enough to surprise beer-phobics, but light enough to have with a light cheese).

A bitter for the more seasoned beer drinkers (Old Speckled Hen, or you could try Woodeforde's Wherry or Hop Back Summer Lightning).

With the main course, Adnam's Broadside.

With desert, Young's Double Chocolate Stout

After the meal: Durham Temptation (you can get it in Durham and Newcastle) or Worthington White Shield (Museum Brewing Company).

If you're interested, I can tell you roughly where to find all these.

Where exactly in England are you?

[steveh]

Originally posted by stronk
OK (if you're still reading this thread): as I'm also in the UK, I can suggest beers you can actually find here without resorting to praying to oracles at full moon.

Young's, Cropton, and Guinness aren't available in the UK any more? Say it ain't so!! ;)

S.

[hopjack13]

Originally posted by steveh
What are you suggesting anyway? It doesn't take fermented courage to make me crazy!

that if i had too much , the cookie could accedentaly fall in to my beer! not one to waste beer or an oreo, i would naturally have to make do as best i could ;)

[BluesHarp]

New Years Eve I had Dogfish WW Stout and chocolate chip cookies...kind of weird, but kind of good....

[aquarius]

OK (if you're still reading this thread): as I'm also in the UK, I can suggest beers you can actually find here without resorting to praying to oracles at full moon.
I appreciate these things. Having said this, my local Sainsbury's has a pretty neat selection; there was something from the Brooklyn Brewery there, for example, so it is enturely possible to get plenty of foreign stuff, just not necessarily specifically named foreign stuff, heh. I certainly am still reading the thread; I'm shortly going to grab some beers for a pre-big-meal trial run.
You want to get the women on your side, so maybe a lambic (they do actually brew and sell these in England) in reserve for the stilton is a good idea (I can't think of anything else sweet enough to surprise beer-phobics, but light enough to have with a light cheese).A bitter for the more seasoned beer drinkers (Old Speckled Hen, or you could try Woodeforde's Wherry or Hop Back Summer Lightning).
They're all lovely beers, in my experience. What's a "lambic", specifically?
With the main course, Adnam's Broadside.
I'll go for that.
With dessert, Young's Double Chocolate Stout
Really? It's not a chocolatey dessert; will thw two go together?
After the meal: Durham Temptation (you can get it in Durham and Newcastle) or Worthington White Shield (Museum Brewing Company).
White Shield? Do you still have to pour that carefully to avoid disturbing the sediment? I'm not going to be near Durham before the event, sadly, so I'll go for White Shield.
Where exactly in England are you?
I'm in the Birmingham area, but (except for minority local brews) it's not likely to be a problem getting any of this stuff, I wouldn't have thought.
Thanks!

[Stodbrew]

Another good resource for beer and food pairing is "The Brewmaster's Table" by Garrett Oliver. It looks like its got some great ideas for beer styles with food.

[Herb Ninja]

"They're all lovely beers, in my experience. What's a "lambic", specifically?"

Pulled this from a quick search (http://www.beer-brewing.com/belgium-beer-styles/lambic.htm)

LAMBIC

Tasting Notes
Lambic is a type of wheat beer that has the unique distinction of using unmalted wheat and being spontaneously fermented. The lambic family of beers includes many different substyles, such as gueuze, faro, kriek, and framboise.

Ingredients
This is sour wheat beer made from the wild yeasts of the Senne Valley in Belgium. Although no one is sure of its origin, the most likely explanation is that the name derives from that of Lembeek, a small town southeast of Brussels. Lambic is golden yellow to light amber in color, light- to medium-bodied, almost flat, pungently sour, and has earthy (horsy and mousy) aromas and fruity notes. Some acetic character is acceptable, but excessive amounts are undesirable. The hop bitterness can be undetectable to very low. Lambic begins with a single basic wort. Lambic is sold either when it is young (called "vos" or "foxy" Lambic) or old ("vieux" Lambic). Vos lambics are highly variable products; they are frequently sold straight from the cask in specialized places in Brussels and continue to change from day to day with age. The vos lambic is less than one year old and is usually a hazy, very dry, rusty color, with very little carbonation. It can be quite sharp and lactic. Some brewers no longer sell lambic in this form because there is little or no demand for the product. The vieux lambic is two to three years old and becomes clearer and has very interesting flavors from an earthiness to a wide range of esters. Basically, color is light gold to amber. As long as the beer is in the cask, it is called "lambic." Much of the lambic is not sold "straight," but in a variety of blended forms such as gueuze, framboise, and kriek.

One of the basic requirements of lambic is that at least 30 to 40% of the grain bill be unmalted wheat – usually a soft, white variety. The malt used is usually a mixture of two- and six-row barley. Crystal and specialty malts are not used, but some brewers add proportions of corn, rice, or even rye.

Traditionally, aged hops (from 1 to 3 years) were used to brew lambic in order to reduce the flavor and aroma of hops, as well as the bitterness. Assertive hops flavors do not combine well with the tartness of wheat beers or the intentionally sour notes of lambic beers. Modern lambic brewers use mostly British rather than Belgian hops. Preferred hop varieties are East Kent Goldings, Fuggle, Brewers Gold, Northern Brewer, and Hallertauer.

Brewing Techniques
The boil for lambics can last between 5 and 6 hours because of the thinness of the wort. The hopping rate can be up to 6 times higher than that of conventional beers. After boiling, the wort is run into a coolship at a depth of 20 to 25 cm and allowed to cool overnight.

The coolship is usually situated in a well-ventilated room, to encourage inoculation by wild yeasts. No yeast is added to the wort. Today, the lambic brewing season is typically from the 15th of October to the 15th of May because of the higher concentrations of microorganisms during that period.

After a night in the coolship, the wort is run off the trub and into wooden barrels, which are stored in non-air-conditioned rooms. Old barrels are strongly favored over new ones, and some brewers prefer barrels that have previously been used for port, cherry, and claret.

Some of the microorganisms in the Senne valley that are involved in fermenting lambic beers are enteric bacteria, Kloeckera apiculata, Saccharomyces yeast, pediococci bacteria, and Brettanomyces yeast. Enteric bacteria are the dominant microorganisms involved in the initial stages of fermentation, contributing flavors variously described as celery-like, parsnip-like, mushroom-like, smoky, or moldy.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Stodbrew
Another good resource for beer and food pairing is "The Brewmaster's Table" by Garrett Oliver. It looks like its got some great ideas for beer styles with food.

Garret Oliver will be doing a cheese and beer pairing at the Miami fest next month. And he is pairing using cask ales! I'm there!

[stronk]

In my experience, lambics are sour, but that is masked with sweeteners (usually some type of fruit and sometimes honey). A popular sweetener is cherry. They have a pretty acquired taste, so you might prefer to get a sweet ESB instead (if you're looking for a sweet beer).

I do think Young's Double Chocolate Stout will go with the dessert, even though it's not chocolatey. I love the stout because it is bitter (which will, as mentioned by others, provide a contrast with the sweetness of the food) and yet has a long, long aftertaste of chocolate malt and chocolate. The aftertaste will remind people that they are eating pudding?

Worthington's White Shield has changed hands so many times that I can't really tell you if it's the same as or similar to the one you used to drink. I suggest you get a bottle and try it for yourself (and yes, it is still bottle-conditioned, so you should leave it to stand first and pour it carefully).

[dennis3951]

The best places to look up recipies on the internet are winery web sites. They all give out this same piece of advice , match the wine to the sauce not to the core of the course. The same thing is true for beer. Try to think of a beer that goes well with warmed applesauce (i can't) and one that goes with roasted mushrooms(dry stout maybe) and pineapple (a hoppy pils).

[stronk]

So, how did it go?

[aquarius]

So, we did the following:

pre-meal beer: Lowenbrau

starter: Lancashire cheese on a toasted roundel of bread with warmed apple sauce
beer: Marston's Old Empire

main course: Beef Wellington with small vegetables and herbed potatoes
beer: Adnams' Broadside

dessert: Monks' Lust (rich and sweet natural yoghurt, double cream, dark muscovade sugar, and pineapple)
beer: Kriek

Cheese and biscuits
beer: Chimay

The Lowenbrau was a nice starter beer; light and quite fizzy, got you in the mood for a drink. Went down well.

The Old Empire, a light IPA, was popular all round; it complemented the starter excellently, and was liked by even the two ladies at the meal.

The Broadside wasn't liked by the ladies. Despite how it complemented the weight of the Beef Wellington, it "tasted too much like beer". I don't know how to avoid this; anything that didn't have a strong flavour would be overwhelmed by the main course.

The Kriek went excellently with the dessert; the fruit in it meant that it neatly avoided the awful taste of the first mouthful of beer after a sweet pudding, and it was well-liked by all diners.

The Chimay fell foul of the "tastes too much like beer" trap again, despite how it went well with the (fairly strongly-flavoured) cheeses.

Overall, the idea of pairing beer with foods was a success. We also didn't end up quite as smashed as we would have done with wines; I served about the same quantity of beer as I would wine (1-2 glasses per course) since otherwise you'd have had more than a pint per course each, and that's a lot of fluid! I am not clear whether the relative sobriety at the end of the meal was a good or a bad thing. :-)

Thanks for all your help in making the meal a success! Best of luck with your own pairings.

[newportstorm]

Thanks for the update. "Too much like beer" huh? Well, I guess you can't please everyone. Seems like a success overall, though. Glad we all could help you out - lots o' beer knowledge here. Though experimenting can be fun too. :D

Cheers!

[Beaver]

Very cool idea!