first time kegger

[batkins]

Do you fill your kegs with co2 (not pressurized) before filling with beer? I read somewhere about creating a co2 blanket in the keg, to avoid oxidation. Thanks, Bill

[gjr3]

Yes, I always have CO2 in kegs before racking; I usually charge them up after sanitizing and leave about 5 PSI... You can tell if it's full (probably doesn't have to be full) by placing a lit match over the opening- it should go out.

Just as important, I use a blow gun to flush carboys before transferring from primary- remember, CO2 is heavier than air; once the beer starts flowing it will push the gas up and be under that blanket.

I also use CO2 for helping to keep hops (homegrown and commercial) fresher by displacing the air in the containers...

CO2 is very useful!

G

[Richard English]

You will see from other posts that there are two schools of thought about this.

I belong to the one that suggests that commercially-produced carbon dioxide should stay in its cylinders - or be used only to pressurise A-B Budweiser or other sodas!

Carbon dioxide is useful, yes, but not to the brewers of Real Ale!

I have been brewing beers and wines for over thirty years and have never used extraneous carbon dioxide; a secondary fermentation produces all the carbon dioxide I need.

[toneyc]

Originally posted by Richard English
I have been brewing beers and wines for over thirty years and have never used extraneous carbon dioxide; a secondary fermentation produces all the carbon dioxide I need.

How do you dispense your beer without CO2? I would be interested in seeing some pictures of your dispensing setup, if possible.

:) Toney.

[Richard English]

Hello Toney,

Usually I bottle my beer, since I'm the only one in the house that drinks it and bottled beer keeps better than cask beer.

However, if I am having a party, I use a "Boots" cask. This is simply a cask with a tap at the bottom and a large screwcap at the top which contains a pressure-release valve.

Whether I'm bottling or using the cask the method is the same. Once the fermentation has finished I rack the beer off the lees and add one small teaspoonful of priming sugar to each pint

Then that goes into the barrel, or individual bottles, and is left to undergo a secondary fermentation - which takes maybe a week.

When the beer has cleared, just open the tap and gravity does the rest. If I am drawing several pints then the carbon dioxide pressure might drop to zero and the beer flow slow to a trickle. Then I need simply to open the valve to admit some air. There is no danger of contamination since there is a blanket of carbon dioxide over the beer.

This is the traditional way of serving beer and it won't of course, allow you to dispense beer stored in a cellar to a bar on the first floor. You either have to walk down the the cellar or do as all the best English pubs do and install a handpump (readily available from brewery suppliers over here).

Remember, I am talking English beers here. English draught beers are not expected to keep for more than a week or so, unlike pasteurised beers. If you must have a Real Ale that keeps for months, then you have to bottle - there's no alternative since and live beer in the cask will deteriorate after a couple of weeks or so.

An extraneously-applied carbon dioxide blanket might help to extend the life a little, but, as I say, if you're not drinking large quantities, either bottle, or brew in quantities comensurate with your consumption. After all, a couple of gallons (even Imperial gallons - 10% bigger than US gallons) will only last for a week at a rate of 2 pints a night!

[Tweek]

I believe waht he is referring to is whether or not to purge his keg before he racks his beer into it.

The answer is yes. Once fermentation begins oxygen becomes the enemy.

Failing to do so will add oxygen to your beer, degrading it. The best method to do this is to set your co2 to a few pounds like 3, and put it on your keg. Wait until you hear your canister stop hissing then pull the pressure realease on the keg, repeat this 3 or so times. As gjr3 mentioned co2 is heavier than oxygen so when you open your keg up to put the beer in the co2 will stay in. This method should be used whether you are force carbonating or using natural fermentation to achieve carbonation.

Cheers

[Richard English]

Maybe I've been lucky, but I have never had a problem with oxidation of beer and I have never bothered to take precautions against it. The home brewing book I bought many years ago (in 1966 and it cost me 5 shillings - that's 25 pence or about 40 cents) actually said something like, "...the fernentation will be so vigorous that oxygen will not spoil the wort..."

This is, of course, quite unlike wine where the use of a fermentation lock is essential as the must s-l-o-w-l-y ferments its way towards its ultimate destiny as wine.

I normally ferment beer in a fermenting bucket (with a lid) and, when the fermenation has more or less stopped, rack into another bucket and bottle or put into cask.

No carbon dioxide, no heading compound, no probem!

[Tweek]

I think a lot of people do not purge their containers before transerring. However, I am sure you can agree just on principle, that it is a best practice method. I whole heartedly agree that you can still make excellent beer without doing it, it is just another precaution.

Richard,
On another note, I am stunned that you are using buckets. I see the fermenting bucket as the tool to use to see if you want to homebrew. Once you decide that you want to homebrew it is time to use glass carboys, or stainless fermenters. I have tasted batches that half were fermented in plastic buckets and half in glass carboys and you can indeed taste the diference.

After 30 years there must be a reason why you are staying with plastic and I am intrigued. care to comment on this please?

[Richard English]

Thank you for this. I use glass for wine - where it has to stay in the container for some time, but I use a bucket for the main fermantation. It is, I would add, a proper fermenting bucket, made for the job from food-grade plastic (as is my cask). I would not consider using an ordinary plastic bucket or bin.

I have not tried a comparative trial and so I'm willing to be persuaded that there is a difference. However, I have never detected any plastic flavours myself and have had no comment from others.

I will admit, incidentally, that I brew less beer these days and more wine. I enjoy both and now, as I can buy bottle-conditioned beers of high quality (as was not the case a few years ago when the only Real Ale was available on draught in the pub) I tend to leave the brewing to Fuller's and Young's.

I still use my equipment occasionally, though, most recently to convert a batch of windfall apples into so very acceptable cider.

[Tweek]

Thanks for the reply. If you ever have to time or interest I would reccomend splitting a batch between glass and plastic and seeing if you can taste the diference. I am betting that you can. Due to the fact that you already have the glass for wine it there wont even be an equipment cost.


Also are you getting your grapes/juice form kits or from vineyards? I have tried some kits and have not been happy with them. I will be getting my first batch of fruit this year. I am hoping to do a barrel of Petite Syrah, but that will really be dictated by what the best fruit I can get is.

[Richard English]

In fact, although I have used grape juice or kits, I also like to make wines from local fruits. It's a lot of fun letting people try them and then asking if they can teel what the fruit is. Few can!

I do grow grapes but the results are not usually good; the south or England is on the borderline for grape cultivation an my garend doesn't get the best of the sun.