Vienna lager Recipe

[Fred Cam]

Does anyone know of a good Vienna lager recipe (extract w/grains) ??
Here is what I was thinking, 1 can Breiss Munich / 1 can Breiss light
1 pd. of German Vienna Grains / pd of German Pilsner Grains steep in water 148 degress for 45 minutes. Maybe some carafoam for head ret.
Hops ?? maybe Hallt. or Tettang or German Spat.
Yeast thinking of Wyeast Bohm. Pilsner (Lager Strain)
Any thoughts or sugg.

[vance71975]

Here ya go, this is a partial mash version, trust me you can do it no problem. Just follow what it says. Add the grains to a pot that has 6.25 quarts of water that is 165.9 degrees mix it up real well, throw a lid on it and let it set for an hour, Strain the water into your boil pot and Rinse the grains with a couple gallons of water that is about 150. then proceed with the boil as you would for an extract batch.Its easy.This one is spot on other than gravity,which is a fuzz over for a normal Vienna lager. Also i left yeast Choice up to you, we all have our favorite yeast.

Vienna Lager

Type: Partial Mash
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 8.00 gal
Boil Time: 60 min


Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 lb Amber Dry Extract (12.5 SRM) Dry Extract 37.50 %
3.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 37.50 %
1.00 lb Pale Malt (6 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 12.50 %
0.50 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 6.25 %
0.50 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 6.25 %
0.50 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 17.0 IBU
1.00 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] (20 min) Hops 10.9 IBU



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.053 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.09 %
Bitterness: 28.0 IBU
Est Color: 10.9 SRM


Mash Profile

Single Infusion, Medium Body
60 min Mash In Add 6.25 qt of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 3.50 qt of water at 196.6 F 168.0 F

[BrewDog]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT USE AMBER MALT EXTRACT IN A VIENNA LAGER!!!!!

IT MUST be made from Vienna and Munich malt (with a possible addition of Pilsner malt/malt extract).

If you can get Munich Extract, perfect (I know that Northern Brewer sells or at least USED to sell it. Otherwise, go with Pilsner extract and do a mini-mash (ie, steep at 150F) of Munich & Vienna malt.

Crystal malt has no place in a Vienna (or Oktoberfest) and you will NOT get the flavor profile you are seeking if you use Amber malt extract or any crystal malt, which includes Caramunich.

HTH-

[Fred Cam]

Ok thanks guys
Breiss does indeed make a Munich Malt Extract, I have used it before.
Also I have done patrial mashes there is no problem here

Again Thanks

[vance71975]

Ok thanks guys
Breiss does indeed make a Munich Malt Extract, I have used it before.
Also I have done patrial mashes there is no problem here

Again Thanks

In that case most definitely use Munich Malt extract in place of the amber!The only reason i suggested amber is that Munich isnt listed in the program i use. As far as Crystal goes, no it isn't a typical addition to a Vienna lager, it was more for color and a lil bit of sweetness, If you are trying to produce a Vienna Strictly by the BJCP guideline's then by all means don't add it. However i have made a Vienna "Faux Lager" with crystal and Nottingham yeast fermented at about 58 that was VERY tasty.Since your New to the forum, i think it best to tell you that I have an Odd Style of brewing that doesn't suit everyone. What i do, is look at the style By the numbers,IE Gravity,IBU,Color etc, and i formulate a recipe to get there using non-standard grains,Yeast,adjuncts and Hops. Which is why i Made the Choice to use Caramunich And Aromatic Malt. There is Crystal in the Amber extract.

However i will say if you want as close to an Exact Copy of the style as you can get, Listen to B'dawg, He knows what he is talking about when it comes to brewing and knows the styles inside and out as well as anyone i know!!!

[vance71975]

Ok Since My First Post was A very Non-standard interpretation of the Vienna Lager Style, Here is an Up Dated Version that is Much Closer to a true Vienna Lager, Please do note that the Munich 20L IS NOT a crystal Malt, it is simply a darker Munich, used to bring the color up to where it should be, Also note that i did find as much info as i could on Munich Malt Extract,and i do know that the Color rating for it is right, But i could not find an SG rating for 1lb in 1 gallon of water so when i added it to my brewing program i used the default SG of 1.035 which should be close for an extract but you may come in a bit under or a bit over the projected SG.

If your after a more True to style Vienna Lager, you may also consider adding a teaspoon or two of Baking Soda to raise the Carbonate Level In your Mini Mash and Boil water to match closer to the water normally used in the classic example of this style which is high in carbonate.I am a Tad Unsure on the Lager Yeast i picked,As i do not do lagers, and am not similar with Lager Yeasts in general.But im sure if it is wrong B'dawg can point you to a better choice, and i hope he will jump in and correct it if i Chose the wrong one! :D

The 1 lb of Pilsner (2 Row) German is there strictly to provide a boost in enzymes for the mash,and a slight gravity boost And to up the traditional German flavor a bit..I am unsure of the Diastatic Power Of the Vienna and Munich 20L so i added to to ensure conversion.Hope this helps give you a Basis to work off of!


Close To True Vienna Lager



Type: Partial Mash
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 8.00 gal
Boil Time: 60 min

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 lb Briess Munich Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 33.33 %
3.00 lb Munich 20L (Briess) (20.0 SRM) Grain 33.33 %
2.00 lb Vienna Malt (Briess) (3.5 SRM) Grain 22.22 %
1.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 11.11 %
1.00 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 19.3 IBU
0.50 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] (20 min) Hops 5.5 IBU
1.00 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs Bohemian Lager (Wyeast Labs #2124) Yeast-Lager



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.052 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.91 %
Bitterness: 24.8 IBU
Est Color: 11.1 SRM


Mash Profile

Single Infusion, Medium Body
60 min Mash In Add 7.50 qt of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 4.20 qt of water at 196.6 F 168.0 F

[BrewDog]

Much better, Vance-

I would suggest a German Lager yeast, not a Bohemian yeast. The Bohemian yeast will leave a touch of diacetyl that is inappropriate in this beer.

As far as water adjustments, everyone's water is different and what is the proper adjustment for one person is NOT the proper adjustment for another.

Take a look at this great post by AJ DeLange, a true water "guru".
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

Otherwise, looks good!

[vance71975]

Much better, Vance-

I would suggest a German Lager yeast, not a Bohemian yeast. The Bohemian yeast will leave a touch of diacetyl that is inappropriate in this beer.

As far as water adjustments, everyone's water is different and what is the proper adjustment for one person is NOT the proper adjustment for another.

Take a look at this great post by AJ DeLange, a true water "guru".
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

Otherwise, looks good!

Very True i should have noted that you should know your water profile before adding any "water enhancement additives". Unless you want to go with the hassle of Starting with a Base of Distilled water and create the profile your looking for which is not for the inexperienced brewer to attempt.

So yes before adding anything make sure to get a Local Water report, I do believe that ALL Cities will give you this info for free OR you can prolly find it on your cities municipal Utilities water quality web page, Make sure you know what you will raise and what your starting point is, otherwise it is best just to stick with your water as it comes from the tap Boiling it to remove Chlorine Or Treating to remove Chloramine(if your city treats with this chemical).

Sorry B'dawg sometimes i forget that most places don't have as good a water profile for brewing as You and I do.:D

[Mikegobrew]

Since your New to the forum, i think it best to tell you...

You do realize he joined 2 years before you did, but just doesn't post as much as you do, right? He may lurk often and know your odd ball approach already. JAT

[Fred Cam]

Thanks for all the info guys, I think i will try the partial mash recipe. I have yet not made a batch from all grains. I know that sounds like a rookie but i have been making beer from extract and grains for years. I will indeed use a german lager yeast (Wyeast) for this brew. I have a fridge that i can use to keep my carboy in so I can do a true lager. One questions I have always used steeping bags for my grains should I not use them i have been thinking of not using them. I have several brew pots so volume of water is no issue here. Should I use irish moss in this brew also ?

[Tronathon]

I think in general, clarity is always a valued characteristic of lagers...
so fining agents would probably be recommended. A good crash chilling to try and precipitate out as much proteins and yeasties as possible would also help. But it won't change the flavor of the beer if you don't try and clarify it...

[sully626]

I could be completely wrong on this, but isn't Irish moss for chill haze? If so, then yes I would think you would use that and cold crash it(which is what you do when you are lagering, right?). I just tried an IPA without Irish moss and there was a noticeable haze to the beer even thow it was clear from everything else. It was great to see how much a tsp of Irish moss effects your final product.

[BrewDog]

No worries, Vance.
I know you are a very friendly and helpful guy. Don't let that change. Your brewing experience has grown tremendously in the short time you have been brewing. You just have this tendency to jump in and give the first advice you can think of, which may or sometimes not be quite the right thing. That's ok. We'll keep you straight and I know you soak up all the info like a sponge. :D

Believe me, I'm really not trying to be a jerk. I really just want to make sure that everyone (newbies or old hands) can TRUST all of the info on this forum.

[vance71975]

No worries, Vance.
I know you are a very friendly and helpful guy. Don't let that change. Your brewing experience has grown tremendously in the short time you have been brewing. You just have this tendency to jump in and give the first advice you can think of, which may or sometimes not be quite the right thing. That's ok. We'll keep you straight and I know you soak up all the info like a sponge. :D

Believe me, I'm really not trying to be a jerk. I really just want to make sure that everyone (newbies or old hands) can TRUST all of the info on this forum.

Oh i know B'dawg, your never a jerk nor do you ever come off as one! No worries buddy. I am sure that anyone that has read my post knows my approach is far from standard, so i tend to give a non-standard recipe,unless someone specifies that they want true to style, i can and will do that too.

Your right tho sometimes i don't think about the fact that we odd ball brewers are few and far between lol And i owe all i have learned to you and the other great brewers here on this forum!:D