Secondary

[MARK123]

If I use about 7-8 lbs of extract on a 4 gallon batch.....how long should I wait to put in secondary???

[YamahaXS]

A week should be sufficient. If you had a real vigorous ferment and things have slowed down after 4-5 days then you can transfer a little early.

Just take care not to splash the beer as you trasfer it over.

[MARK123]

Is it ok to use 5 gallon buckets with 4 gallon batches...or maybe even 4 1/2 gallon batches???
Have you ever heard of adding beeno to reduce carbs???

[unkle bik]

Originally posted by MARK123
Have you ever heard of adding beeno to reduce carbs???

You may be on to something, fartless beer, perhaps?

[fretlessman71]

Hey... you've got this post on here twice! Maybe we need to get a moderator to combine them so we don't get confused. I'll report it here, and the moderator has my permission to remove this post when he's done!
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Fret - I moved your post from the other mis-placed thread onto here. I'll get somebody to bash the other one.

-Eddy
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Generally, you want to wait until there's almost no activity in your airlock before you rack to secondary regardless of how much of whatever you put in your brew. Although there's a board member who has taken to racking to 2ndary just two days after fermentation begins (can't remember who - speak up if it's you!) to get the beer off the yeast cake ASAP. He says it makes certain he doesn't get any off flavors in his beer. I might try it myself on the next batch!

Follow the directions below and you'll be just fine...

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[fuji6100]

Generally, you want to wait until there's almost no activity in your airlock

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say "almost no activity." You can have a beer bubbling away for weeks, especially with active yeasts like hefe.

I always thought the benchmark was to rack after high-krausen falls. Seems like everybody does it at different times anyway, but the general concenscous is that you want to get it off the yeast cake sooner rather than later.

[toneyc]

Fuji, I would like to know more about your experiences with long ferments. I have a friend here that has had a beer bubbling for 3 months now. Not a big beer, either, it's og was about 1.045 or so.

:)
Toney.

[fuji6100]

My beers usually ferment pretty quickly since I use dry yeast (I'll upgrade eventually) and I pitch a starter, but I've had a few just carry on and on.

One was a simple honey/amber ale (only used 2# of honey) that just kept bubbling for like 2 weeks after I transferred it to secondary. The temp was about 68-72 so its not like it was cold or anything. It just had a few nucleation sites on the bottom that sent very fine patches of bubbles to the top of the carboy for almost 2 weeks straight. When those few spots went away, I bottled.

The other was a peach-wheat ale. I added peach extract to secondary so maybe those extra fermentables boosted my ferment time, but it bubbled away for over 2 weeks. Again, the temps were fairly warm around 70F so it just had a slow and steady secondary.

I do pretty much the same thing every time I brew. My last brew was a fairly big ale (1.063) that involved honey also (1#) Primary fermentation was done in 4 days and the secondary stopped bubbling entirely after just 2-3 days! I plan on just leaving it for a full 2 weeks to be sure and then I'll keg.

I can't really find a rhyme or reason as to why some just keep chugging and others sprint to a quick finish ::shrugs::

[Moondoggy]

I was told that as long as you don't leave the beer (Ales) on top of the cake of yeast longer than 3-weeks no off flavors will come through. Meaning that secondary fermentaton is not necessary. Any thurth to this?

[MARK123]

How hard is the kegging thing??...How big are the kegs???...I have only done about 10--- 5 galloners so far..Is it time for me to try it????

[Jughead]

Originally posted by MARK123
How hard is the kegging thing??...How big are the kegs???...I have only done about 10--- 5 galloners so far..Is it time for me to try it????

Yes, it is time to try it :)

The kegs most home brewers use are 19 liters ( I think that's 5 US gallons).

As for how hard, the setup does take some effort, and you may have to fiddle around with it to get it working just right. But once it works just right, you'll never look back. There is an investment of time and money up front, but the pay back is good.

There are other ways to go, such as the tap a draft mini kegs. Less work up front and likely less money. They've been covered by other threads here.

[fuji6100]

How hard is the kegging thing??...How big are the kegs???...I have only done about 10--- 5 galloners so far..Is it time for me to try it????

How hard? Not hard at all. It just takes a little bit of minor trouble shooting up front (mainly checking your system for air leaks...) and once you get it tweaked, it is very convienant, impressive to guests, and makes drinking my brew even more pleasureable. I went with all new equpitment from scratch, and my total cost (new freezer, temp controller, co2 tank, reconditioned kegs, tubing, clamps, hoses, faucets, misc supplies) was around $400 to get rolling. That sounds like a lot, but I spent it a piece at a time over about 4 months until I put it together. I save a lot of time and even a little money over bottling so I feel that it is well worth it. My setup is 2 5-gallon corney's and 2 taps. That's all the space I had. You could probably get a bigger freezer used for what I paid new, and corneys aren't very expensive either. You could easily have a bigger setup than I have for the same cost if you buy some of the parts used.

[mmmBeer...]

I tend to have long primary fermentations. 8-10 days from pitching is very normal…with a starter I may knock 1 day off. I have a batch going now that was blowing foam within 36 hours that I pitched a week ago Monday (now 9 days in the primary) and could only remove the blowoff tube after a week. There is still foam on the top. I anticipate that I will go to secondary on Saturday or Sunday.

I aerate the wort really well, monitor the temperature at pitching time and during fermentation, but it is always the same. And the Hefes last even longer!

Kegging is sooo easy! I am glad I am doing it. I save so much time kegging that I have more available for drinking! Think about it…you only have to clean and sanitize one (big) bottle. The beer is always cold and fresh…what more can I say!

[beertester]

Originally posted by Moondoggy
I was told that as long as you don't leave the beer (Ales) on top of the cake of yeast longer than 3-weeks no off flavors will come through. Meaning that secondary fermentaton is not necessary. Any thurth to this?

Secondary fermentation is necessary if you are bottle conditioning your beers. Using a 2nd fermentation vessel is not necessary. I don't think commercial breweries do it unless they are storing the beer for a long time. The advantage to using a secondary fermenter is that it aids in reducing the sediment. Breweries use a filter to reduce sediment. If you are bottle conditioning your beers, you will always have some sediment. However, if decanted properly it will not be in your glass.

There are potential risks to using a second fermenter. There is an increased risk of infection and risk of oxidation when transfering.

Most be beers will settle out within 1 week after fermentation is complete and can be bottled then without going to a secondary fermenter. Secondary fermentation occurs in the bottle. That is how the beer is naturally carbonated.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by beertester
Secondary fermentation is necessary if you are bottle conditioning your beers. Using a 2nd fermentation vessel is not necessary. I don't think commercial breweries do it unless they are storing the beer for a long time. The advantage to using a secondary fermenter is that it aids in reducing the sediment. Breweries use a filter to reduce sediment. If you are bottle conditioning your beers, you will always have some sediment. However, if decanted properly it will not be in your glass.

There are potential risks to using a second fermenter. There is an increased risk of infection and risk of oxidation when transfering.

Most be beers will settle out within 1 week after fermentation is complete and can be bottled then without going to a secondary fermenter. Secondary fermentation occurs in the bottle. That is how the beer is naturally carbonated.

There is much truth to what beertester says....

Secondary fermenter is really a mis-nomer. It's really a conditioning/maturation tank. If the gravity of your beer hasn't changed for a few days - it's done fermenting.

The chance of the "potential risks" are slim to none assuming you're not grossly negligent.

[MARK123]

I do believe the whole conditioning is great on top of the bottle conditioning....IfI I had an OG of1.080......Do I wait for 1.015 to secondary it...Or 25% of OG???..Or after a week???..This batch was 1.080 OG...after a week in the primary I went to the secondary..The gravity yesterday after a week in the secondary was 1.027....Will it drop more???.Or is all the fermentation basically done in the first 4 days??

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
There is much truth to what beertester says....

Secondary fermenter is really a mis-nomer. It's really a conditioning/maturation tank. If the gravity of your beer hasn't changed for a few days - it's done fermenting.

The chance of the "potential risks" are slim to none assuming you're not grossly negligent.

I should clarify more - secondary fermenter is a mis-nomer if your beer has hit terminal gravity. High gravity beers(somewhere are 14P+) should probably be removed from the trub(primary) before they hit terminal gravity because they will usually take much longer and you don't want to leave it sitting on trub for weeks at a time.

MARK123 - a 1.080 beer will almost never be done in 4 days(assuming a reasonable amount of fermentables) - least I've never heard tale of it.

I've had 1.080 beers go down much lower than 1.027 - but it's hard to be sure where it's going to stop because of a number of factors.

[MARK123]

I think I'll let it sit in the secondary for a month then bottle it...What if I brewed a 1.080, went to the primary for 4 days....Went to a secondary (and pitched again) for 4 days...then to a third fermentor..(Would that be a thirdary) ..for a few weeks..Would that be any good???

[Bruno_78]

So since secondary is actually a conditioning, should I not be alarmed if there is no activity? I thought there woud be some activity after transfer. Is there a point when all yeast will settle and there won't be any left for carbonation?

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by Bruno_78
So since secondary is actually a conditioning, should I not be alarmed if there is no activity? I thought there woud be some activity after transfer. Is there a point when all yeast will settle and there won't be any left for carbonation?

No you should not be alarmed. Yes there is a point - but it would take a long while and you'll disturb the yeast enough when you transfer for bottling that you still probably wouldn't have to worry unless it's a real hard flocc'er. The "not enough yeast to worry phase" would almost certainly be outside of 4 weeks.

Did you check the gravity of the beer when you transfered to secondary? This is your best indicator of what has transpired.

[Bruno_78]

gravity at transfer was 1.023

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by Bruno_78
gravity at transfer was 1.023

What was the original gravity? How long was it in primary?

It's likely you'll lose a 3-5 more points before all is said and done.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by MARK123
I think I'll let it sit in the secondary for a month then bottle it...What if I brewed a 1.080, went to the primary for 4 days....Went to a secondary (and pitched again) for 4 days...then to a third fermentor..(Would that be a thirdary) ..for a few weeks..Would that be any good???
Do you really need to pitch again? There should be MORE than enough yeast in there after just 4 days in primary.

BTW, it goes like this: Primary, Secondary, Teritary. I don't know what you'd call a FOURTH fermentation....

[Bruno_78]

Watch your spelling on tertiary Fret,

The sequence continues with quaternary, quinary, senary, septenary, octonary, nonary, denary. Words also exist for `twelfth order' (duodenary) and `twentieth order' (vigenary).

[fretlessman71]

Thanks for the correction... I had never heard it, and only seen it once or twice. TerTIary.... GOT IT.

I thought a vigenary was someone who had new and interesting ideas.... ;)

[paul84043]

MARK123,

Even the biggest of beers is not going to have a primary much longer than a regular beer. Typically people describe primary as over when the foamy kreusen has "fallen" back into the beer. This will rarely take longer than a week, sometimes only a few days, though most people wait a full week anyway.
Transferring it off the yeast cake allows you to wait the amount of time required for your full fermentation to complete.
Take a gravity reading at transfer, nine times out of ten you will be very close to your final gravity at that point. Letting it sit another week (or two, or three...) is conditioning time anyway so it's not wasted any way you look at it.

That being said, there is always one weirdo beer that just keeps going for whatever reason. I had one big Belgian Ale that just kept bubbling for nearly 6 weeks, even though the gravity was not doing a whole lot. I finally broke down and bottled it anyway. It turned out just fine.
Hefe's seem to take a few extra days to finish primary, I have been known to let one of them sit another week in the primary before I get around to transferring it.

I made a "Steamroller Stout" kit from AHS last week it had an OG of 1.074. When I transferred it last night, it's gravity was 1.020. Almost completely done in a week. I'll let it sit for two in the secondary just because it's a pretty big beer and it could use the extra conditioning time.

After a while you start to not worry so much about your beers and things just seem to take care of themselves.

[Bruno_78]

Close Fret, I think that's a "visionary", but nice try.