Band aid taste in several batches?

[barley ben]

So a while back i made a rauchbier and I sanitized my carboys with bleach for the first time. I rinsed about a million times with hot water.(I posted about this when it happened). That batch came out really medicinal/band-aid tasting. I have brewed several times since then and since then I keep noticing that taste. It's not strong like the first time, but it's still there. I just transfered a dry stout tonight and tasted the beer. I can still taste band-aid... There is no way there is still bleach residue in the carboys. Is there anything else that could give off that after taste that you know of? It is starting to get old having every batch with this off flavor. I scrub the crap out of them and sanitize, sanitize, sanitize but it is still there. The first one was my mistake. Iguess I should have rinsed a million and one times, but this is the fourth batch with the after taste. I'm about to trow out everything and buy all new. I'm stumped and need some advise if anybody has a clue what could be doing this.

[Brownbeard]

Don't use bleach. I would get starsan. It is cheap, reusable (to a point), and no rinse. It has made brewing so much quicker. I recommend a spray bottle too.

[fidcastro]

OK, so this won't help you at all, but my wife thinks Orval tastes like bandaids.

[Tweek]

bretanomyeces (spelling?) can sometimes taste like band aid. you prob have a bret infection in your system somewhere. without knowing your system I couldnt give you any tips on wher I would think the culprit spots would be.

[Stodbrew]

Do you use city water to brew with? If so, is it chlorinated? That could be your problem. Without an activated charcoal filter to filter out chlorine, it could show up as a chlorophenol (band-aid) flavor or aroma in the finshed product.

[fretlessman71]

Plastic and bleach don't mix! Tell your friends!

(This is why I'm telling you now. :) )

Even though it doesn't look or feel like there's a scratch, there can be a scratch or a seam somewhere where stuff smaller than water molecules can get in and wreak havoc. I have water bottles that I used for several months and washed and rinsed, and after awhile there's an odor you just can't get rid of, and it's time to pitch them. I would imagine the same is true in the brewing world.

[barley ben]

Brownbeard...
I only used bleach that one time and all I can say is never again.

Fidcastro...
No that doesn't help but it is quite interesting!! Maybe I should try some Belgium styles.

Tweek...
It is a simple extract system. Glass and tubes. I think I'll try buying all not tubes. If that doesn't help, I'll buy new glass. If that doesn't help, I'll quit brewing and buy all my beer at the store!!! OK, no I won't.

Stodbrew...
Yes I do and yes it is. I boil all the chlorine out of it except for my saintizer. Do you think it could be from my sanitizing solution?

Fret...
I don't use plastic except for my tube. I didn't bleach them, just my carboys once. I think the tubing is the first thing I'll replace though.

[fretlessman71]

Don'tcha wish you could just tell us all to shut up once in a while? ;)

[barley ben]

Nah, then I wouldn't find out why my beer tastes like poop!!!!

[Stodbrew]

You'd definitely think boiling would drive off all of the chlorine, but, surprisingly, it doesn't. It's some pesky stuff. And it only takes a little bit in your beer to be perceptible. I do find it strange, though, that it wasn't happening before. Maybe it is your sanitizer, but I'm still thinking its the water.

[fidcastro]

Originally posted by barley ben
Nah, then I wouldn't find out why my beer tastes like poop!!!!

That would be the dog relieving himself while you aren't watching.

[barley ben]

Wouldn't suprise me. They don't make dogs like they used to. Man's best friend,HUH?

[Asahikun]

I use a plastic brewing bucket, a plastic spoon for stirring, a plastic tube for my blow-off, a plastic airlock, a plastic racking cane etc. I disinfect everything with regular kitchen bleach and I'm really curious to know why plastic and bleach don't mix.

I have had the "bandaid" problem only once out of about 12 brews. The time it happened to me I think it might have been the honey I put in the beer but that's just a theory. Trust me, it's not the bleach.

So, why don't plastic and bleach mix coz I sure haven't had a problem???

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by Stodbrew
You'd definitely think boiling would drive off all of the chlorine, but, surprisingly, it doesn't. It's some pesky stuff. And it only takes a little bit in your beer to be perceptible. I do find it strange, though, that it wasn't happening before. Maybe it is your sanitizer, but I'm still thinking its the water.

I think Stod is going the right way probably. Try a batch using purified water just for the helluva it and see if the taste goes away.

Are you using the same yeast strain for the last few batches? Have you been harvesting it?

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Asahikun
I use a plastic brewing bucket, a plastic spoon for stirring, a plastic tube for my blow-off, a plastic airlock, a plastic racking cane etc. I disinfect everything with regular kitchen bleach and I'm really curious to know why plastic and bleach don't mix.

I have had the "bandaid" problem only once out of about 12 brews. The time it happened to me I think it might have been the honey I put in the beer but that's just a theory. Trust me, it's not the bleach.

So, why don't plastic and bleach mix coz I sure haven't had a problem???

At the beginning, if you're careful, you won't have a problem. But all it takes is one little nick or scratch and all of a sudden it's an issue. One little failure to get all of the bleach out and it's an issue. That one time it was the honey? Are you SURE it was the honey?

[Tweek]

I think stodbrew prob nailed this one. I dont know how common bret infections are in beer. You hear about it and taste it way more in wine.

[YamahaXS]

my 3 cents:

if you are sure its not bleach, and it doens't sound like bleach too me, then maybe your city water changed or had a spike int he chlorine levels of the water. I don't think bleach was the problem with your rauchbeir either....

could be an infection somewhere in your system.... your bottling right? soak clean flush all tubes, replace if you got the cash. I don't think you need to replace your glass carboys.

are you over boiling your grains? phenols can be exacted from husks at too high temperatures.... describe how you are steeping yoru speciality grains.

[barley ben]

I do have a high chlorine level in the tap water here. The only water I don't boil is the sanitizer water and if is a no rinse it's probably leaving a bit of chlorine residue in my equipment. I am starting to think that could be my problem. After all, I sanitze everything so by the time I'm done, there could be enough chlorine to throw a bit of that off flavor into it. It's not horrible but it's still there. You can taste it in the back of your tounge, almost as if you're smelling the taste more than tasting the taste.

[YamahaXS]

Originally posted by barley ben
I do have a high chlorine level in the tap water here. The only water I don't boil is the sanitizer water and if is a no rinse it's probably leaving a bit of chlorine residue in my equipment. I am starting to think that could be my problem. After all, I sanitze everything so by the time I'm done, there could be enough chlorine to throw a bit of that off flavor into it. It's not horrible but it's still there. You can taste it in the back of your tounge, almost as if you're smelling the taste more than tasting the taste.
brew your next batch with bottled water and see if the problem goes away.

[barley ben]

And yeah, I bottle but I'm getting the off flavors before that. I just racked to secondary last night and it was already there in my primary. If it's chlorine, I have to be picking it up from my sanitizing water.

[barley ben]

Hopefully that is it. I'll try the bottled water thing and if that fixes it, maybe I'll pick up a carbon activated filter and try removing it with that. If it comes back then, I'll just use bottled water forever.

[danno]

OK, here's a nit to pick, Chlorine will boil off. Chloramines, which are becoming more common in public utility water, will not boil off. Could be your issue, check your city water report.

Also, didn't see it mentioned, but one of the most common places to pick up an infection is the plastic spigot on your bucket. just rinsing bleach or sanitizer through it isn't enough, you need to disassemble and soak....

bleach and stainless steel don't mix, but bleach and plastic should be fine. my anti-bleach stance is because you have to rinse after you use it, which increases the likelyhood of reintroducing an infection...

[barley ben]

I'm definately going with the tap water after talking to all of you. Out of all the feed back, my problem keeps matching that.

The problem is happening before the bottling bucket and I use glass primary and secondary. I always take apart my equipment to clean. Do think I'm going to replace the syphon tubes though. They are cheap and it won't hurt. Except for my blow-off tube, they are all almost a year old i think.

[Asahikun]

You may have thought of this yourself but.....
How about getting a water filter that fits on the end of your tap. You can really smell the chlorine from the tap water here, but not when I run it through the filter. Even if you got the most expensive model, it would be cheaper than using bottled water. You could also rinse with the filtered water but you generally can't run very hot water through them - at least not with the model I use.

[toneyc]

I've been thinking about this one:

http://www.morebeer.com/index.html?page=detail.php3&pid=FIL32

It is inexpensive, $36 USD, and has an 800 gallon lifespan. A heck of a lot cheaper than the Brita/Pur units at Wal-Mart.

:)
Toney.

[brewmonkey]

If you are not using bleach as a sani agent, what are you using? If it is iodophor, that needs to go away just like anything chlorine based. They are both infamous for their ability to impart phenolics into beer, just like nasty city water can. Phenols are just nasty (and I reason I do not like Hefeweizens) but sani agents are not the only place you will find them causing problems. Some higher kilned malts and most smoked, especially peated malt used in high proportions will cause a phenolic/medicinal taste in your beers.

For those using ANY plastic, please read below.


Phenolics are more prominent as an off-aroma, but also are imparted in the flavor of beer. It is described as medicinal, band-aid-like, smokey, clove-like, and plastic-like. Except in certain styles where small amounts are appropriate, phenols are hugely unacceptable. There are many sources of contamination:
Chlorophenols exist in municipal water supplies and residue from chlorine-based sanitizers. They can affect beer in parts-per-billion (ppb)! Avoidance of both should be given; find a substitute water supply and avoid chlorine-based sanitizers altogether.
Phenols extracted from malt during the mash and sparge are polyphenols, also called tannins. They interact with proteins to form chill or permanent haze. If oxidized through hot-side aeration, they create oxidized fusel alcohols. Proper sparging, and avoidance of excessive sparging can reduce the phenolic production. Also, sparge water should be low in alkalinity, and not in excess of 167°F. Likewise, extract brewers should avoid boiling grains.
Phenols are also derived from certain yeast strains that produce aromatic alcohols. Bavarian wheat beers produce acceptable levels of phenols by creating 4-vinyl guaiacol that results in a pleasing clovelike phenolic tone under the correct conditions. Careful selection of yeast can eliminate undesired affects.
Wild yeast contamination can harbor within plastic-based equipment, such as polyethylene fermenters and plastic hoses. These materials as soft and permeable, hence difficult to clean. Wild yeasts such as S. diatatius produce minor wort phenols that impart medicinal off-flavors. Migration to glass and stainless replacements are the best solution. Also check for defective bottle caps.
Smokey phenols are a byproduct of smoked malts, such as in Rauchbier, and Scotch ales. Low amounts are appropriate, but excess use of malt can be overbearing.

[fretlessman71]

For $36 I'm very curious as to just how well they work at getting rid of the chlorine (I know they say it does, but I've tried others that say the same thing that failed), or the chloramides, or whatever. I guess you could just send it back if it didn't work!

[barley ben]

Everytime I think I got it, someone else has another good idea of what it is. So anyway, yeah I use Iodophor for sanitizing.1 capful per 2.5 gallons of water. I have read that this is the proper amount and shouldn't impart any off flavors though. And I use glass so the only plastic I use is the tubes, which I'm replacing just to eliminate that possibility.

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by barley ben
Everytime I think I got it, someone else has another good idea of what it is. So anyway, yeah I use Iodophor for sanitizing.1 capful per 2.5 gallons of water. I have read that this is the proper amount and shouldn't impart any off flavors though. And I use glass so the only plastic I use is the tubes, which I'm replacing just to eliminate that possibility.

But that is what this board is all about. Helping each other learn and identify potential problems and solutions to them is a great learning tool for all. I like this board as it is what I like to call a "Virtual Roundtable" discussion. Level headed individuals throwing out ideas and then others expand on them. No flaming No egos.

[barley ben]

I couldn't have said it any better myself. I have said before that I don't know anyone that brews. I pretty much learned from a few books and while they are a great starting point, there is nothing better than discussing it with real people that have had the same problems or know of the problems. I have said before, thanks for all of your help that you have all given!!