Update: fruit extracts are the way to go

[ray m]

Brethren...I bottled my cherry ale today, and I have mixed thoughts that I would like to share. Bear with me, it may get lengthy....

Since this was my first voyage using real fruit in my brew, I wanted to be careful & not go overboard. I used 6 lbs., (as I mentioned some time ago) and I intentionally made a pretty light beer with a very basic grain bill so the cherry flavor could hopefully come through.

Upon tasting it, there is a barely perceptible hint of "something else" in the flavor of the beer. It's not an off-flavor, and I know it's cherry-related because that's what I think I taste. But, for all the extra work, time and effort required to "do the fruit thing", it sure as hell is not worth it (to me anyway). By extra work & time I mean destemming & pitting the cherries; pasteurizing them before adding them to the 2ndary; and doing a brief tertiary fermentation to let the brew settle out a few extra days after taking them off the fruit. The brew was in contact with the cherries for @ 2 weeks.

To be quite honest, I really think that the biggest effect the cherries had on the beer as a whole was that they merely took a little bit of the hoppiness out of it. I surely did not want a beer that screamed "CHERRIES!!!!!!!!!!", but I expected the kind of pleasant results that I get from using the fruit flavoring extracts. But, alas, it was not to be. Two things are obvious to me here when instituting fruit: You need to use a lot (I probably needed at least 12 lbs. to get the effect I was seeking), and you also need to use a fruit with a bit stronger flavor profile, in its own right, than "mild". I think the dark, sweet cherries I used were just not laden with a lot of flavor in the first place to have a really significant flavor contribution to the beer.

To sum up, I think I spent @ $20 for these cherries, which in the end sucked. I could have used one $5 bottle of cherry flavoring and would have gotten a much, much better result. Plus, the extra 2-1/2 to 3 hours I spent with the fruit was not worth it, when I could have just taken an extra 10 seconds on bottling day to dump a bottle of extract in the bottling bucket.

The beer itself turned out fine, mind you; it's a nice, everyday, refreshing lighter brew. But I have used real fruit for the first, and last, time. Compared to flavoring, fruit costs a lot more money, takes a hell of a lot more time, and gives what can barely be classified as "minimal" results in the end. I would recommend the use of flavorings over the real thing to any of you guys, any day.

Thanks for letting me vent, dudes! Drink hearty!!!!

Ray

[Caffinehog]

I'm going to make a cherry stout with the extract and a blueberry ale with the same, and I'm going to get a can of cherry puree and try to make a kriek. I'm going to see how much of a difference it makes, and I'm definately going to sample it before bottling it. I'll have a bottle of extract on hand in case the fruit doesn't do the trick.

[fuji6100]

i had a disastrous time using real fruit, and a wonderful experience with extract as well. Glad to know I wasn't the only one who thought using real fruit was a PITB

[ray m]

Originally posted by Caffinehog:
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I'm going to make a cherry stout with the extract and a blueberry ale with the same, and I'm going to get a can of cherry puree and try to make a kriek. I'm going to see how much of a difference it makes, and I'm definately going to sample it before bottling it. I'll have a bottle of extract on hand in case the fruit doesn't do the trick.
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Not to discourage you, Caffinehog, but I used a can of puree once, a couple years ago, when I wanted to make a blueberry brown ale. Not impressed with the results at all---I had to use a bottle of extract anyway. End result was a so-so brew at best. It might have had something to do with the fact that I used the puree in the primary. I suggest trying to use your puree in the secondary. Good luck!! I hope you get better results than I did.

[brewmonkey]

Ray don't give up on fruit yet. Next time look for fruit from a company called "Oregon Fruit Products". They are usually available in the canned fruits section or pie filling section of the store and some HBS carry them.

When we did out raspberry wheat we used their stuff (albeit as a special order due to the amount we used).

Using their products we ended up going 7lbs to a Bbl, so for a 5USG batch a little more then a pound should give you a stronger hint of what you are looking for.

[ray m]

Did you use the puree in the 2ndary, Brewmonkey? How long did you keep the beer on the fruit?

[brewmonkey]

We did add it during racking to secondary. As we were looking for the fruit to be part of the beer it all went into serving tanks. Most of the fruit would remian behind in the secondary on racking to serving, but you would still get the flavor and some of the "pulp".

[ray m]

Hmmmm.....maybe next year, I dunno. If I ever get the urge again, I definitely will not use fruit from the store that I have to destem, depit, etc. Maybe I'll give the Oregon product a try, but I think I'm done with fruit & fruit flavor for awhile. I think this will be the year I do some English ales.....:)

[Jughead]

My only experience with fruit was a crab apple wine. I tried to use the crabs from the tree in my front yard. Nothing eats these crabs. They just rot on the front lawn all year long, so I thought I'd try to use them. I bought the basic starter kit and made 5 gallons of wine. I now have about 4.8 gallons of three year old crab apple wine. It's almost undrinkable. I guess I just keep it cause I'm too lazy to throw it out, and it took so much effort to make, what with picking the fruit, stemming, freezing, thawing, mashing, seeding, filtering.....

After the failed wine, I thought I'd put all that equipment to better use and try to make beer instead. :D

[Beerconnoisseur]

Originally posted by ray m
Two things are obvious to me here when instituting fruit: You need to use a lot (I probably needed at least 12 lbs. to get the effect I was seeking), and you also need to use a fruit with a bit stronger flavor profile, in its own right, than "mild". I think the dark, sweet cherries I used were just not laden with a lot of flavor in the first place to have a really significant flavor contribution to the beer.


Yes, if I remember right, the cherry stout mentioned in an earlier issue of Brew Your Own used sour cherries. I may make a cherry beer at some point, but I will be sure to start from a given recipe, and then tweek it until I get what I'm looking for.

Maybe sour cherries, with lactose to balance the sourness, would be one idea... :D

[davesarman]

I've made a few fruit beers before, most successful. I've done raspberry and cranberry without using any extract. I've done apples a few times and have had to add extract to boost the apple flavor as it is a subtle flavored fruit.

Though, I've never worked with cherries before, I'm wondering if you really need to pit and pastuerize them? I think some of the Belgian brewers and New Glarus, if I'm not mistaken, just put whole cherries in the fermenting beer. I would think the pits might give you an earthier, robust flavor.

I've always added my fruits to the secondary fermenter and have never had any problems with contamination. I put the fruit in a fine nylon mesh bag to make removal easy.

That's my experience with fruits. Hopefully you can take some knowlege from that for further fruit beers. I'm not a huge fruit beer fan, but it's fun experimenting with them. Good luck! ;)

(Hey, I think I just made my 200th post!)

[DreamWeaver]

Originally posted by ray m
Brethren...I bottled my cherry ale today, and I have mixed thoughts that I would like to share. Bear with me, it may get lengthy... The beer itself turned out fine, mind you; it's a nice, everyday, refreshing lighter brew. But I have used real fruit for the first, and last, time.
Thanks for letting me vent, dudes! Drink hearty!!!!
Ray


Thanks for the Heads Up Ray M,
I have been thinking about doing an American Wheat Beer, since reading that it goes good with a slice of lemon, but adding lemon extract. Prolly not a good idea huh? Guess I'll just stick with the German -EnglebertHumperdink Act of 1492 :D -DreamWeaver-

[ray m]

Originally posted by Beerconnoisseur:
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Yes, if I remember right, the cherry stout mentioned in an earlier issue of Brew Your Own used sour cherries. I may make a cherry beer at some point, but I will be sure to start from a given recipe, and then tweek it until I get what I'm looking for.

Maybe sour cherries, with lactose to balance the sourness, would be one idea...
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I remember that issue. I wasn't up for making a) a stout, and b) a beer with sour cherries. Since I love Bell's Cherry Stout so much, I MAY, years from now :D make that recipe. This concoction of mine was all off the top of my head: I was in the mood to play & to try using real fruit. I'm just glad it wasn't a disaster---it's very, very drinkable, just the fruit part was a disappointment.

Davesarman: I've read some cautions about pits & stems and the harsh tannins they can add to beer. Dunno if they're accurate or not, but I went with caution and removed those---a BIG pain in the ass!!

I just got a new recipe book "Beer Captured" by the husband & wife brew duo (I'm not gonna try to spell their name!). I've heard Chazwicke rave so much about Conniston Bluebird that I think that will be my first recipe I'll make from that book, probably next month.

[S.F.B.]

I brewed a razzy wheat beer last summer and it came out alright. I used around 6 lbs of fresh berries from my back yard in the primary. The only thing I think I would do different next is making the beer with more malt to offset the tart of the berries. It is improving with age and is really good mixed with stout.

[rossmarp]

Originally posted by brewmonkey
Ray don't give up on fruit yet. Next time look for fruit from a company called "Oregon Fruit Products". They are usually available in the canned fruits section or pie filling section of the store and some HBS carry them.


In an unrelated search, I happened upon the Oregon fruit products available online here: http://www.leeners.com/fruits.html

I'm sure they're available elsewhere as well... I thought it was freaky weird to "happen upon" the mention of these fruit products on the same night during unrelated activities...

Have fun.