force carb or natural? - effects...

[Redbird Fan]

Question - will our beer "age" and improve in flavor if it is force carbonated or is natural carbonation responsible for the improved flavor in aging? - (thinking in terms of kegging)

I have been unable to find any literature to support ANY ideas on this topic.

Your thoughts?

[Tweek]

o no here it comes.

[Jughead]

Originally posted by Tweek
o no here it comes.

lol

[Stodbrew]

Originally posted by Tweek
o no here it comes.

Classic:D

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by Tweek
o no here it comes.

Yeah - please - just do a search on the board and come to your own conclusions. I don't think we can go through this again :(

[Redbird Fan]

I wasn't intending to start a long-winded thread - it's a legitimate concern I'm having. I just set my first kegging system up, so I'm used to naturally carbonating (so my beer always aged in bottles). Now it seems I need to choose which route to go, forced or natural. I was going to base my decsision on whether the beer will age and improve if I force carbonate. I am assuming it would age as always if I naturally carbonate.

[danno]

ahem.....

well, I have a force carbed Belgian strong golden ale that's been in a keg for over a year now, and it's fabulous. And properly carbonated...

hey Tweek, you were supposed to save us from this whole discussion by experimenting with 5 gal of force carbed beer vs. 5 gal of naturally carbed beer. So basically, it's your fault this isn't settled yet.... :D

[Beerconnoisseur]

Originally posted by danno
hey Tweek, you were supposed to save us from this whole discussion by experimenting with 5 gal of force carbed beer vs. 5 gal of naturally carbed beer. So basically, it's your fault this isn't settled yet....

Blaming a victim before he can weasel out of it! SWEET! :p

[tubetek]

Howdy all-
I force-carb my crowdpleaser APA and it seems good to go in 36-48 hours. I make sure that fermentation is complete and beer has "dropped bright" in the secondary before kegging. That being said, I think the general rules of aging apply to kegging:
Lighter beers need less maturing after dropping bright than Higher gravity beers.
If I keg a beer over 6.0%abv. I let it condition appropriately whether or not I force-carb. (I usually always prime my High-grav beers) YMMV
Enjoy!!
TT

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by Redbird Fan
I wasn't intending to start a long-winded thread - it's a legitimate concern I'm having. I just set my first kegging system up, so I'm used to naturally carbonating (so my beer always aged in bottles). Now it seems I need to choose which route to go, forced or natural. I was going to base my decsision on whether the beer will age and improve if I force carbonate. I am assuming it would age as always if I naturally carbonate.

I was just referring to the fact that this has been a pretty hottly debated notion(more than once) - myself and Tweek have both, at different times, defended the merits of force carbonating against the leading natural carbonation advocate. There really is a pretty good body of discussion about this....

[mmmBeer...]

It certainly is a hot topic…I wonder how many messages are devoted to this?

Thus far I have stayed out of the fray of this topic :) I really think it is just a personal preference thing. I personally can’t tell the difference between my bottles that are naturally carbonated and my force carbonated kegs. And force carbonating is much easier.

[fretlessman71]

If someone wants to send me a keg, I'll brew a 10 gallon batch next time and split it up....:D

[Tweek]

I did do this. I thought I posted on this. my bad.

It took some doing but I finally got my carbonation levels to match. Once I had matched the carbonation levels in both kegs and drew off all the yeast pints out of the primed keg, which took a few btw, this is a real drawback to priming imo. I had 3 guys and myself taste blindly. some guesses were made, but no one was able to pick them out definately.

Now I have heard that if you have a beer with a little diacytel in it that the act of priming it can "scrub" it away.(only a little) The beer I had made was just a session pale type of a beer was very clean going into keg .


Cheers!

[fretlessman71]

Now, if you force carbonate in a keg, can you bottle it from there? How long will it last? (Say I wanted to send some away...)

[Jughead]

Sure you can bottle from the keg.

You can find lots of counter pressure bottle fillers for sale all over the place. These are for filling bottles from kegs.

Or... when I used to make extract beer at a "brew on Premise" place, they used to hook up your finished beer in the back and pump it out to a draft beer faucet which you just put your bottles under and filled and then capped. I've done this at home sometimes too when wanting to send a couple home with someone and been out of bottled beer. I never noticed problems with CO2 levels or air exposure.

I cannot comment on any differences in how long the beer will last doing this.

[YamahaXS]

Originally posted by Tweek
I did do this. I thought I posted on this. my bad.

It took some doing but I finally got my carbonation levels to match. Once I had matched the carbonation levels in both kegs and drew off all the yeast pints out of the primed keg, which took a few btw, this is a real drawback to priming imo. I had 3 guys and myself taste blindly. some guesses were made, but no one was able to pick them out definately.

Now I have heard that if you have a beer with a little diacytel in it that the act of priming it can "scrub" it away.(only a little) The beer I had made was just a session pale type of a beer was very clean going into keg .


Cheers!

Thanks for the feedback. Interstesting comment about the scrubbing effects of priming, but i don't understand how anything can be scrubbed away when its a closed system, as in a keg. In a carboy, sure. gas travels up and out. In a keg, gas travels up into headspace, and eventually will difuse back intot he liquid.

[brewmonkey]

The reason you might see a small reduction in the diacetyl of a bottle conditioned beer over a forced carbonation beer is that if the diacetyl was produced by the yeast and not bacteria, the yeasr will naturally reabsorb some of its by products. This is the reason all beers (not just lagers) should be given a diacetyl rest for 24-48 hours after fermentation is completed.

[Richard English]

I would hate to disappoint all those who have been waiting for my comments...

I would not like to comment about natural versus pressure cabonation IN A KEG unless that keg was being used as a cask.

Once a beer is sealed and stops working then it can develop no further. That is what happens in kegs and, whereas I suspect that there will still be a difference between artificial and natural carbonation, it is probably small.

Cask beer, on the other hand, must be naturally cabonated, otherwise it will not be cask beer. And properly conditioned British cask beer (Real Ale) tastes better than keg beer. No ifs. No buts.

Just come over and try some.

[danno]

aw, c'mon Richard, that was like the last episode of Seinfeld. Nowhere near as entertaining as is should have been...

:D

[croc4]

LOL
________
Laguna Bay Condo (http://pattayaluxurycondos.com)

[fuji6100]

I think Richard would just rather be tossing back a few brews instead of going through all this all over again.

[croc4]

I believe that Richard, made his views quite eloquently in the other post.... argument.....

In all seriousness, I respect Richard for not getting into this again. He made his views quite well.


For the record, I only naturally carbonate, why?.......why not!
________
The Legend Condominium Cosy Beach (http://pattayaluxurycondos.com)

[Richard English]

Quote "...For the record, I only naturally carbonate, why?.......why not!..."

I realise I have never made what is probably the most telling point of all.

Natural carbonation is far, far cheaper than force carbonation. No gas cylinder to buy and replace regularly; no valves and adaptors; no pressure regulators; no pressure vessels - just good beer!

[YamahaXS]

:)



I love this place!

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by YamahaXS




I love this place!

Me too - *biting tongue* ;)

[Beaver]

Hey Fast_Eddy - so what is that beer in your avatar? Looks pretty yummy. :)

[Fast_Eddy]

That is a Helles Bock that I brewed about 3 months ago. I lagered it for almost 6 weeks at 34 F. It is so freakin good that even my wife drinks it. It's tentative name is EVMLI Bock (ie Even My Wife Likes It Bock). Alas - tapping on the side of kegs reveals that it not long for this world :(

I think I have enough left that I'm entering it into a contest at the end of the month.

[Beaver]

A very fine looking brew! Good luck in the competition!