Lager v pilsner

[dalehileman]

In the following thread

http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=21133&page=2

the relationship of pilsner to lager is mentioned but I think requires to be explored in a new thread:

A. is it technically literally true that P Urquell is the only true pilsner and if that is so,

....(1) Shouldn't "pilsner" always be capped (no pun intended) and

....(2) what flavor fractions need be present for a brew to artfully so call itself, if indeed there is any such but if not,

B. can we assume what is so often called a pllsner is really just a lager and that its maker is merely trying to put someting over on us

[MeridianFC]

A Pilsner is a beer in the style attributed to style originated in Plzen, Czech Republic. Pilsner Urquell (literally Pilsner from the Original Source) is considered the benchmark for historical reasons, though there are certainly variations on that theme. German Pils is based on the original Czech model but usually has more of a malt profile. Any beer calling itself Pil/Pilsner/Pilsener should be at least acknowledging Svejk's homeland. Pale golden, good malt backbone, but well hopped, ideally with Žatec/Saaz and absolutely bottom fermented with a long lagering.

As noted before all Pilsner are lagers but not all lagers are Pilsners. I'd say even some beers claiming to be Pilsners are not Pilsners.

[Jaimez]

I had this question on my mind for quite some time. Glad i saw this thread.

[BrewDog]

In addition to Meridian's comments, here are a few things that are sort of related.

Some beers have appelations in the same way that sparkling wine can only be called champagne if it comes from the Champagne region of France.

Kolsch, as well as the Trappist Ales (from the 7 Trappist Monastaries) fall into this category. Steam Beer is a trademarked name for California Common by the Anchor Brewery. It is illegal to produce a beer and use those names unless you meet the appropriate criteria to do so. That is a marketing protection.

You are free to say "Kolsch-style" or "Abbey Ale" when marketing your beers of those styles. "Steam-like" would be illegal, because law prohibits marketing products using names that use the Trademarked name even in part.

For whatever reason, Pilsner is NOT protected by the appelation, so anyone can use the term. My guess is that this has largely been due to the popularity of the style, and that it was not historically enforced the way the others were.

HTH-

[Undergradbrewin]

The book "Beer" from editor in Chief Michael Jackson approaches this exact topic as well of the origin on the brew. I've learned a lot from this book and it has honed my interested in the history of styles. I'd suggest atleast a look at that particular section I think it could clear a lot of things up.

[beerking]

Meridian, you have German Pils and Boh Pils backwards. The Boh Pils has more malt profile.
From www.bjcp.org:

German Pils:
"Drier and crisper than a Bohemian Pilsener with a bitterness that tends to linger more in the aftertaste due to higher attenuation and higher-sulfate water. Lighter in body and color, and with higher carbonation than a Bohemian Pilsener."

Boh Pils:
"Uses Moravian malted barley and a decoction mash for rich, malt character. Saaz hops and low sulfate, low carbonate water provide a distinctively soft, rounded hop profile."

Also, note that only Boh Pils is required (or damn near required) to have Saaz, while German Pils may use just about any noble hop (Hallertauer, Tettnanger, Spalter or Hersbrucker in addition to Saaz).

[corkybstewart]

We stopped at a small brewpub in Weinhiem Germany and my wife loved the Golsch-the local name for a beer that is brewed to taste exactly like a Kolsch but they had to change the name.(Excellent beer by any name)

[dalehileman]

I had this question on my mind for quite some time. Glad i saw this thread.

Thank you most kindly Jai, it's rare to accomplish such a plaudit in this digital maelstrom of interpersonal confict and derision

[dalehileman]

The book "Beer" from editor in Chief Michael Jackson approaches this exact topic.......I think it could clear a lot of things up.

You might also consider the BEER LOVER'S RATING GUIDE by Bob Klein, which No.2 Son and I swear by

Incidentally thanks to all you guys--illuminating--and on this account I shall link him to this thread once more so that he may pick up on those additional comments or even--as I keep hoping--he will join as he's also a near expert in these matters