Lager vs. ale temp

[joejoe]

I would like tt brew a light lager or pilsner but do not have the capabilty of cold fermentation. (No refrigerator and my basement is only around 65 degrees...) has anyone had any luck with brewing/fermenting a lager at temps higher than 65? I have used LME/DME kits and do not want to move onto full grain yet.
Any ideas on this?

I have been brewing my own ales and buying my lagers at the store...
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[danno]

Do you like Anchor Steam? What you're talking about doing is the essence of the "California Common" style, a lager fermented at ale temps.... It does work just fine...

[CaptHook]

Originally posted by danno
Do you like Anchor Steam? What you're talking about doing is the essence of the "California Common" style, a lager fermented at ale temps.... It does work just fine...
Is that with lager yeast?

[tony]

You should try using a "steam yeast strain" also called a california common lager yeast. It is a hybred yeast that will give you lager charachter at ale fermentation temps. I use the san francisco strain available from white labs, in my four and ten barrel commercial brewhouses. not only will you still get lager flavor profiles but the warmer ferment will speed up the over all fermentation time, also you can condition the beer much like an ale so you don't have to wait so long to enjoy the fruits of your labor. hope this helps.

tony...

[joejoe]

IT is a Wyeast 2112 pitchable lager yeast that supposedly will ferment at ale temeratures around 70 degrees. My concern is that by fermenting at this high temp will not give me a lager beer, rather it will give me an ale.
I guess my another way to ask my question is:
Is it the yeast or the temperature that makes a lager a lager?
My feeling is that a lager yeast fermenting at a high temp will give me an ale.
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[tony]

the yeast strain is what is going to give you the lager flavors. the white labs and probably the wyeast products for that matter will give you a clean crisp lager beer. the strain just has the capability of fermenting at a warmer temp. you also don't have to ferment at 70 degrees the strains work as low as 55 degrees. the one I use I start at 68 then after the yeast has started I will drop down to 65. still giving a very distictive lager flavor profile.

tony...

[joejoe]

Tony,
You have been a great help.
Thanks for the great info.
One more question for Tony and all:
Now that I have racked two different batches to secondary.
One Peak Pale Ale with an ale yeast and one California Common with a lager strain I have moved both to my basement which is 62-64 degrees. There has been no activity in either carboy for 3 days. Is this normal? Is there still secondary fermentation going on even though I cannot see it? Should I leave them at the 62-64 temp or move them back to 70+?

thanks again for all your feedback.
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[YamahaXS]

sounds way too cold for the ale yeast. what range did the yeast instructions give you?

I dunno about the lager. BUT for some reason i thought they were slower to start.

BTW, keep my beer in my basement at similar temps. I use a heater belt, and sometimes if it is real cold, I will wrap the carboy with a towel. So basically my beer gets an electric blankie.

edit: i just use Ale yeasts

[BucksBrew]

If it helps, I used a lager yeast and it took almost 2 days to start bubbling. I made a Pilsner Urquell clone. I sweating bullets thinking I blew it. The pitchable tube tells you one thing, the guy at the beer stoore tells you another and what you read is different as well. I combine all the info and use it as guidelines to what can and could happen.

[L.H.H.H.Brown]

Have had some batches take 2 or 3 days to begin to ferment. Secondary shouldn't take so long but... check the specific gravity. That'll tell ya if there's any more to ferment.

[paul84043]

How long was the primary on the Ale yeast batch? Was it active? and at what temp?
Secondaries can be very low in activity, sometimes so little that you won't see any. Are you using a carboy? If so can you see bubbles in the beer? If not, can you see any bubbles on the surface that would indicate continuing fermentation?
What is your hydrometer reading?

I would check those things before doing anything else. Your beer may be done.

[BucksBrew]

Related Topic on Temp:

I have my 2nd batch ever in the garage, it got too warm in the coldest part of my house. It has been cold the last two days and the temp I think is down to around 42-45 degrees. This is based on a tub filled with TSP/Water/Bottles for label removal just above carboy. I took a digital reading with a BBQ fork with a thermometer on one of the prongs. I put (don't laugh) a navy peacoat around the carboy to help insulate it from the cold. Will remove when it gets warmer tomorrow.

What effect will this drop have on my brew? Anyone? The krausen has all but disappeared and burping is minimal at best.

It is a Bass clone with liquid lager yeast.

Thanks.

[paul84043]

The yeast won't like the quick change in temp, but if it's still going, then things should be okay. you worry about shocking the yeast into inactivity. The colder the ferment, the lower the activity level, so don't expect the same amount as the warmer ones.

[BucksBrew]

It was about a 10-12 degree swing over 1-2 days.

When it warms back up will it resume a normal fermenting process?

Thanks

Joe

[PCaravan]

Just currious about the lager vs ale yeast part at the beginning of this thread. I too do not have a means of cold conditioning my beer at any point but I do enjoy some lagers. I've used White Labs German Ale/Kolsch (I believe it's WPL029) in place of a lager yeast for my lager styles and was satisfied with the results. However, would I be better served if I used a lager yeast at these warmer temps. The lowest I can get it this time of year is around 65F. Of course in the summer it's worse.

[paul84043]

California Commons (Steam) are made with lager yeasts at ale temps and are quite tasty. They still retain alot of the Lager character, but have some estery, ale type flavors as well.
If you don't have the ability to cold ferment, then it's really your only option, but it does work out nicely.

[PCaravan]

Thanks for the quick reply. I guess I'll use the California Common yeast on my next "lager". I've got a Classic American Pilsner planned in about two weeks.