Extract Efficiency

[shibby160]

I read in BYO that extract should be added late in the boil for big beers to improve efficiency. Does anyone have any experience with this practice, and if so, can someone explain the procedure?

[beerking]

For a big beer, you want to add most of the extract late in the boil to improve the efficiency of the extraction of hop oils. As the gravity of the wort rises, the hop oils are more difficult to fully isomerize.

I would add ~25-50% of your extract normally, and add the rest with ~10-15 minutes left in the boil. Boiling the final extract for 10-15 minutes ensures sanitation.

You do not need to worry about forming a good hot break with extract, that has already been done by the manufacturer. You DO want to get a good cold break, after hops have been boiled, and all extract has been heated.

[shibby160]

I assume that means taking the kettle off of the heat, disolving the extract, then bringing back to a boil. So..for a 60 minute boil, I would just "pause" the boil while I add the late extract?

[BrewDog]

Yes, exactly.

[texasliam]

To go even farther with that:
I do a 10 gallon regular strength recipe in a 5 gallon pot by doing this.
steep all grains.
add 1/3 to 1/2 of extract, depending on how much grain was steeped.
stir well and bring to boil
add all bittering hops
boil 50 min
turn off heat, add remaining extract and stir well
return to heat, bring to boil, add flavor hops and boil for 10 minutes, watch for boil over
add aroma hops at flame out.

[shibby160]

To go even farther with that:
I do a 10 gallon regular strength recipe in a 5 gallon pot by doing this.
steep all grains.
add 1/3 to 1/2 of extract, depending on how much grain was steeped.
stir well and bring to boil
add all bittering hops
boil 50 min
turn off heat, add remaining extract and stir well
return to heat, bring to boil, add flavor hops and boil for 10 minutes, watch for boil over
add aroma hops at flame out.
Really...

So you formulate a 10 gallon recipe and only do a 5 gallon boil?? I assume you top off with 5 gallons of water in primary.

[Mill Rat]

Yep, that's called high gravity brewing and that's exactly what the macro brewers do so they can brew in a brew house half the size of what they'd need to brew to target gravity.

[vance71975]

For a big beer, you want to add most of the extract late in the boil to improve the efficiency of the extraction of hop oils. As the gravity of the wort rises, the hop oils are more difficult to fully isomerize.

I would add ~25-50% of your extract normally, and add the rest with ~10-15 minutes left in the boil. Boiling the final extract for 10-15 minutes ensures sanitation.

You do not need to worry about forming a good hot break with extract, that has already been done by the manufacturer. You DO want to get a good cold break, after hops have been boiled, and all extract has been heated.

Might explain why even tho some of my ales used a TON of hops they were never really all that bitter at all.

Would there be anything wrong with say boiling your hops in a gallon of Plain water, straining it, then adding that to your wort and then doing your standard 60 minute wort boil?

[BrewDog]

Remember, it's the boiling action that converts the alpha acids into iso-alpha acids. You would be doing 2 hour boils with that procedure.

I think the variation you are saying you want to try is to add ALL of the extract late, instead of a small amount up front with the rest late.

That is actually an interesting experiment to try. I have heard that the alpha acids need some malt to "bind" into the wort and that boiling in plain water doesn't provide that. I also remember that they tried the experiment on Basic Brewing Radio several years ago, and that the initial impression was that plain water boil gave the most hop presence. They didn't folllow up to show how well that lasted (ie, did the hops stay in better, the same, or worse than the normal wort boil).

Lack of hop pesence could definitely come from high gravity boils. Also, lack of sulfates in your water will contribute to this impression too.

[vance71975]

Remember, it's the boiling action that converts the alpha acids into iso-alpha acids. You would be doing 2 hour boils with that procedure.

I think the variation you are saying you want to try is to add ALL of the extract late, instead of a small amount up front with the rest late.

That is actually an interesting experiment to try. I have heard that the alpha acids need some malt to "bind" into the wort and that boiling in plain water doesn't provide that. I also remember that they tried the experiment on Basic Brewing Radio several years ago, and that the initial impression was that plain water boil gave the most hop presence. They didn't folllow up to show how well that lasted (ie, did the hops stay in better, the same, or worse than the normal wort boil).

Lack of hop pesence could definitely come from high gravity boils. Also, lack of sulfates in your water will contribute to this impression too.

Thanks bdog, as always man you are an Encyclopedia of great knowledge, maybe you should chime in on my other thread :D

http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?p=245269#post245269

[shibby160]

Yep, that's called high gravity brewing and that's exactly what the macro brewers do so they can brew in a brew house half the size of what they'd need to brew to target gravity.
Do I need twice as much yeast?

[BrewDog]

http://www.mrmalty.com/

Then look for the yeast pitching calculator

HTH-