Can you use too much yeast?

[Gekko4321]

I am still brewing with Mr. Beer because it is what I am familiar with and I like the size. I am learning alot here though and about to step up my game soon. Recently I read some advice on here that said to improve my Mr. Beer quality I should use a better yeast like Nottingham and to use corn sugar instead of table sugar. I assume I simply swap out the sugar keeping same amount for carbonation but was wondering about the yeast. The packet I got was for a 5gallon size. The packet says for 1 to 6 US gallons so do I just pour it all in?? Thanks for any advice!

[beerking]

First, welcome to the board, and the hobby (aka "the addiction" ;) ).
Second, corn sugar or table sugar, FOR PRIMING, doesn't really make a difference. As long as you measure be weight, not volume, the two are virtually identical.
Third, yes, you can add too much yeast, but not in the volume you are talking about. You could do 2 packs of Nottingham in a Mr. Beer without problems. Homebrewers are much more likely to add too little rather than too much yeast.
Fourth, to add the yeast, rehydrate it first in ~100*F water, preferably distilled or de-ionized water, but definitely chlorine free water. Let it sit for 15-20 minutes, and stir GENTLY before adding to the wort.
Even better, your next step should be following full proper rehydration technique:
http://www.morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/whydra.pdf
(It is about wine yeast, but you can make the conversions)
Finally, for a Mr. Beer, you would do great adding one vial of White Labs or one smack pack of Wyeast directly to your wort.

[Gekko4321]

Thank you for the great information Beer King! That is good stuff. I have a two follow up questions though if you do not mind. 1) You refer to weight vs. volume in priming dosages. Mr. Beer has a volume indicator for priming only. I do notice corn sugar is lighter than table sugar. Without weighing equipment, is there a good guideline or rule as to how much to use? 2) You mention rehydrating yeasts at around 100 degrees before introducing to wort. I read the PDF doc as well. Mr. Beer states that if you add yeast to wort directly that is above 80 degrees you could kill the yeast. Is that a rule for their type of yeast or am I missing something? Under your methodology would I also add wort to yeast prep to bring temps in sync before pitching? Thanks again for the advice!

[vance71975]

Thank you for the great information Beer King! That is good stuff. I have a two follow up questions though if you do not mind. 1) You refer to weight vs. volume in priming dosages. Mr. Beer has a volume indicator for priming only. I do notice corn sugar is lighter than table sugar. Without weighing equipment, is there a good guideline or rule as to how much to use? 2) You mention rehydrating yeasts at around 100 degrees before introducing to wort. I read the PDF doc as well. Mr. Beer states that if you add yeast to wort directly that is above 80 degrees you could kill the yeast. Is that a rule for their type of yeast or am I missing something? Under your methodology would I also add wort to yeast prep to bring temps in sync before pitching? Thanks again for the advice!

i would do between 1/4 and 1/2 cup for a 2 gallon batch, i used either 3/4 cup corn sugar or 1 1/4 cup dry malt extract for a 5 gallon batch. Dry yeast, is made to be Rehydrate in water BEFORE pitching, the Sugars in the wort causes problems if you do not rehydrate it first. Mr.Beer is a Great introduction to the hobby and a brief stepping stone, but they are not the most reliable source of info, asking hear will get you farther! Welcome to your new addiction!

[Gekko4321]

Thanks Vance for the info. Unfortunately Mr. Beer has us carbonate by bottle using a specific measuring device. I was just wondering if it is as simple as swapping cane for corn sugar volume wise. It is 2.5 teaspoons per 1 liter bottle according to Mr. Beer btw. Beer King said that weight was key, not volume which is all I know. I just want to make sure so I do not ruin the beer at this end stage. Does anyone else use Mr. Beer and have made the change sugar wise? Also could someone verify the process of adding the yeast via the rec'ed temps and process of pitching? It would be appreciated. I do recognize Mr. Beer is a starting point. It is actually a bit embarrassing to even mention it on boards like these! But I do have some supplies to use up, before advancing, and also I am still learning and making mistakes. These simple adjustments to make Mr. Beer better I figure will carry me into the next level and start me off a better, smarter brewer! Thanks for the advice.

[vance71975]

Thanks Vance for the info. Unfortunately Mr. Beer has us carbonate by bottle using a specific measuring device. I was just wondering if it is as simple as swapping cane for corn sugar volume wise. It is 2.5 teaspoons per 1 liter bottle according to Mr. Beer btw. Beer King said that weight was key, not volume which is all I know. I just want to make sure so I do not ruin the beer at this end stage. Does anyone else use Mr. Beer and have made the change sugar wise? Also could someone verify the process of adding the yeast via the rec'ed temps and process of pitching? It would be appreciated. I do recognize Mr. Beer is a starting point. It is actually a bit embarrassing to even mention it on boards like these! But I do have some supplies to use up, before advancing, and also I am still learning and making mistakes. These simple adjustments to make Mr. Beer better I figure will carry me into the next level and start me off a better, smarter brewer! Thanks for the advice.

Yes if you have the mister beer measuring spoon for priming bottles just use it with the corn sugar.

[corkybstewart]

I think Brewdog started with Mr. Beer, maybe he'll chime in.

[cul8rv8]

somewhere there's a whole thread started by Brewdog on how to make better beer with Mr. Beer. I can't seem to find it, though.

[BrewDog]

Here ya go:

http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=16954&highlight=Booster

The issue with carbonation in the PET bottles is that they are plastic and expand a little more as pressure builds up. This means that you need to add more priming sugar than you would use if you use glass.

Table sugar yields a bit more co2 than corn sugar when compred side by side.
If you go to corn sugar in a liter PET bottle, you probably want to go with a tablespoon per bottle. Yes, I know that sounds like a LOT to the other guys on the board, but trust me, that was about right when I did it.

There are 2 ways to add it:
1) add the tablespoon to each bottle directly
2) boil up a cup of water with the total volume of sugar and then add that to the beer before bottling.

I'd go with #2.

You should get about 8 liters out of 1 Mr. Beer kit batch. So, that would be 8 tablespoons as a first try. Then, if you find that your bottles are overcarbonated, then you can cut back until you like the results that you get.

HTH-
BrewDog

[Gekko4321]

Hi BrewDog. Thanks for the link and the advice! Great reading! I have 4 questions for you, if you do not mind. 1) You stated a tablespoon of corn sugar to each bottle. The Mr. Beer measuring device (2.5 teaspoons) is specifically aimed at the PET plastic liter bottles. You made a reference like Mr. Beer advises 2.5 tspns for glass, but Mr. Beer does state it is for the plastic liters. We are only talking about an extra 1/2 teaspoon in the end. Do you still rec a tablespoon for each bottle? 2) Mr. Beer says if I drop their dry yeast into water above 80 degrees I could kill it. It is why they have us bring the wort temp under 80 before adding. Is it that the name brand yeasts can handle hotter temps like 90 plus? I will do exactly what you say, but wanted to check. 3) My wort is usually 76 without the ice bath. Is that too high to pitch into or can I do it there without the extra ice bath? 4) My next beer is a mexican beer calling for booster. What UME from Mr. Beer should I use in place of the booster? Just one UME? Thanks alot for helping us rookies out! Once I clear my supplies, I will try to step up to the next level!

[corkybstewart]

I can help you with the yeast questions. Yeast can survive up to around 110F, but when using yeast to brew beer it works best under 65F. As the temp rises the yeast produce chemicals like fusel alcohols and esters. These create off-flavors in the beer and so beer needs to be kept cooler than 80F, with some notable exceptions. And since fermentation creates heat the temperature inside the fermenter can be 5-8 degrees warmer than outside temp.

[Gekko4321]

Hi Corky. Thanks for the reply. So if I combine what you and BrewDog are saying it is now my understanding that the yeast 'wakes up' best at 90-100 degrees and 'operates' best under 80 degrees. Is that about right? Can I still pitch into 76 degree wort or should I ice it down to 70 as BD suggested? Thanks!

[corkybstewart]

I'm kind of fanatical, I col my wort to around 60F, pitch the yeast and then let it warm back up to 62-64F wort temp. That's tough to do if you're brewing with minimal equipment so get it as cool as possible.
Until about 4 years ago I never worried about temp, I brewed at room temp and loved my beer, so did my friends, but I've seen how much better it is fermented much cooler.

[Gekko4321]

Another anomoly I notice is that with Mr. Beer they state that you need to keep the keg temp above 68 degrees for the yeast to work. Anything below and the fermentation stops. Is that specific with their dry yeast? Do these better yeasts allow colder fermentations? Thanks again.

[vance71975]

Another anomoly I notice is that with Mr. Beer they state that you need to keep the keg temp above 68 degrees for the yeast to work. Anything below and the fermentation stops. Is that specific with their dry yeast? Do these better yeasts allow colder fermentations? Thanks again.

Yeast Does its work faster at warmer temperatures and considering the turn around time Mr beer advertises this is why they want it "above 68" and for some ale strains 68 is a fine working temp, a lot of ale strains don't like to be warmer than 72, The following site list the ideal temp ranges for many of the yeast we commonly use as home brewers so it can be useful, you can also buy from them should you desire to.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/brewing-ingredients/yeast

To answer some of your other questions, the extra 1/2 teaspoon isn't going to hurt at all or create bottle bombs no worries. You can pitch at 76, it is still on the warm side, but i highly doubt it will kill your yeast, if your buying a better yeast to use than what comes with Mr beer i know it wont, but an ice bath would help reduce esters. With a Mexican Beer, i would use either a second can of the "Mexican beer" or an can Of Unhopped Pilsner extract.You could also experiment a bit if you so desire and add a can of unhopped wheat extract,Or Unhopped Golden Extract, the sky is the limit with home brewing, just remember the only guidelines you have to follow are those about cleaning and Sanitation the rest is purely a matter of what tastes good to you, Unless you plan on competing.

[BrewDog]

In my experience, the yeast under the lid of the Mr. Beer kits is a very fruity, weak strain that tends to leave a lot of off flavors. It also will floc out if the temp drops below around 67F. This is a poor yeast, IMO.

The majority of ale yeasts will produce off-flavors at high temps (ie, > 70F).
These off flavors include excessive fruity esters, some clovy phenols, and often they will produce harsh fusel alcohols.
The only exceptions are some of the Belgian strains which not only can go high, but some (such as the Saison strain) REQUIRE temps as high as the mid 80's. Again, those are the exceptions to the rule, though.

In general, for most decent ale yeasts, 68F or lower will help create a smooth tasting, clean beer with very few off flavors. The weak Mr. Beer yeast just wants to flocculate out at the low temps that would help drive down the ester profile. This is why I suggest that you use a better yeast such as SafAle US-O5 or Nottingham.

When you pitch warm, the yeast throws these off flavors in abundence. As the beer cools, the yeast will produce fewer of them, but they will stay in your beer, as there will be more in the beer than the yeast will be able to re-process. This reprocessing of the by products happens at the end of primary fermentation.
When you pitch cold, the yeast will produce less of these off flavors, and the yeast will be able to post process most if not all of them, leaving you with a much cleaner beer.


I agree with the notion that you should add another can of unhopped extract to your Mr. Beer batches. Once you get away from booster, and use some of the tricks I outlined in the other thread, you can actually get some decent beer out of it.

HTH-

[Gekko4321]

Hi BrewDog. I asked this before and I am still unclear. Are you saying that yeasts must be rehydrated at a higher temp and pitched into a lower temp wort? This is the sum of what I am getting out of your advice (and others) and want to make sure this is correct. I am using a Nottingham yeast and I believe you are saying I should rehydrate it at 90 degrees and then pitch into, say, a 70 degree wort? Is this correct? I have not been able to bring these two seperate points together yet and just want to make sure I understand you. The package of yeast I have is 11 grams and is made for 6 US gallon batches, is it okay to put the whole thing in? Also the package says to add wort to the rehydrating yeast every 5 minutes to bring temps together (before pitching), which further begs the question of rehydration temp versus wort temp. Please help me resolve this remaining point. Also, I plan on replacing the Booster with UME now, any reason I should still add maybe half the Booster to increase alcohol content or do you think I risk funkifying the brew? Thanks!

[BrewDog]

I am using a Nottingham yeast and I believe you are saying I should rehydrate it at 90 degrees and then pitch into, say, a 70 degree wort? Is this correct?

Yes. Exactly. rehydrate warm, and pitch it into a 68F wort. Go ahead and use the whole 11 gram packet. That's just fine. (But don't add any more than that to such a small batch).

Also, go ahead and use up your booster in small increments. Just don't rely on it for a significant portion of the fermentables. 1 can of hopped extract + 1 pack of booster => 1/2 your fermentables come from the booster. 2 cans of extract + 1/2 a pack of booster is ok.

[Gekko4321]

Absolutely solid! Thanks BrewDog and others for the helpful advice. I feel like I just doubled my beer education in this one post! I am looking forward to using all of these tips to increase the quality of my beer. Thanks again!