worldwide stout or 120 minute IPA

[Caffinehog]

Anyone have any approximate clones to these? I know they're strong and tough to brew, but hey, I just gotta try.

[GunNut76]

Don't think you will find a WWS clone...as for the 120, take a IPA recipe and double the hops.

[fretlessman71]

...and maybe double the boil time, too....?

[GunNut76]

From what I've heard doubling the boil time does nothing for the bittering...a 45 min boil will isomerize all the AA of the hops and the extra boil time is just to add flavor/caramelization to the wort.

[sallad]

i think your biggest problem will be getting your brew to ferment down far enough without tasting like gasoline or something.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by GunNut76
From what I've heard doubling the boil time does nothing for the bittering...a 45 min boil will isomerize all the AA of the hops and the extra boil time is just to add flavor/caramelization to the wort.

This is not 100% accurate - there is a pretty steep drop off in the amount of AA that is isomerized as the boil lengthens but it doesn't go to zero utilitization. Also, you'll never isomerize 100% of the AA.

[GunNut76]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
This is not 100% accurate - there is a pretty steep drop off in the amount of AA that is isomerized as the boil lengthens but it doesn't go to zero utilitization. Also, you'll never isomerize 100% of the AA.

I didn't mean ALL the AA as I wrote it...I meant "all the AA that can be utilized" I was under the impression that once all of the AA that can be utilized have been there is no reason to continue the boil except to add aroma/flavoring hops and to reduce the volume of the wort.

[brewmonkey]

The most utilization that you will get from hops is about 30% depending on who you believe when reading Rager, Tinseth, Daniels etc. and it is at 60 minutes and above that you will achieve this. So if you boil your hops for 60 minutes or longer the most you can expect is 30%. I am a big fan of first wort hopping and calculate it for 31% and it goes in as soon as the first runnings hit the kettle. Using a method like this I can generally get some aroma from the hops, but I have found for some reason the bitterness is not as harsh like this when using higher co-humulone hops.

For a 120 Minute IPA clone you will need to do more then double the hops. The 120 comes in at 21% ABV so you will need some serious malt for this. If this is an all grain you are doing you may need to do several mashes to achieve the gravity or suppliment the mash with DME/LME to achieve the gravity. You will also need to use a yeast that will tolerate the alcohol. White Labs has one, but you can start with any yeast you want and when the alcohol sends it to it's death you can pitch a different strain to finish it off.

[Caffinehog]

As practice, I'm already well into the process of brewing a stout-based barleywine with an OG of 1.125. I started with wyeast 1098, and when that slowed down, I pitched a gallon starter of the same OG of the super high gravity ale yeast from white labs.
My gravity is already down to 1.05, and I'm not sure how much lower I should expect it to go. The stuff is quite sweet, but I'd expect that even with a finished beer with the same malt.

Advice?

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by Caffinehog
As practice, I'm already well into the process of brewing a stout-based barleywine with an OG of 1.125. I started with wyeast 1098, and when that slowed down, I pitched a gallon starter of the same OG of the super high gravity ale yeast from white labs.
My gravity is already down to 1.05, and I'm not sure how much lower I should expect it to go. The stuff is quite sweet, but I'd expect that even with a finished beer with the same malt.

Advice?

If you want it to go lower you can always consider pitching a champagne yeast.

[Caffinehog]

Well, the super-high gravity stuff is supposed to go to 24% alcohol. Wouldn't that pretty much cancel out any need for champagne yeast?

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by Caffinehog
Well, the super-high gravity stuff is supposed to go to 24% alcohol. Wouldn't that pretty much cancel out any need for champagne yeast?

Not necessarily - if the WLP099 is leaving it at 1.050(around 10% abv) and you want it to go lower then champagne yeast is another alternative.

While poking around I found some suggestions for the White Labs WLP099(quoted from the White Labs site below):


Most fermentations will stop between 12-16% ABV unless these high gravity tips are performed:

Aerate very heavily, 4 times as much as with a normal gravity beer. Less oxygen dissolves into solution at high gravity.
Pitch 3-4 times as much yeast as normal.
Consider aerating intermittently during the first 5 days of fermentation. This will help yeast cells during a very difficult fermentation. Aerate with oxygen for 30 seconds or air for 5-10 minutes.
Higher nutrient levels can allow yeast to tolerate higher alcohol levels. Use 2 times the normal nutrient level. This is especially important when using WLP099 to make wine and mead, which have almost no nutrient level to begin with.
Do not start with the entire wort sugar at once. Begin fermentation with a wort that would produce a 6-8% beer, and add wort (it can be concentrated) each day during the first 5 days. This can be done together with aeration. This is mandatory if the reported 25% ABV is to be achieved.