grain mill

[chapesh]

alright, so i am looking for a new grain mill. thinking of going with a two roller adjustable. the question i have is about the drive system, can you grind your grain too fast? will it cause the husk to shred or be ripped off completely? i was thinking of the crankenstein, the price is right and it looks like it would last a long time.

[beerking]

Yes, you can mill too fast and shred the husks, which MIGHT lead to some astringence in the beer.
I am getting ready to build a mill table for a small brewpub, and have been told that the Monster Mill is probably the best out there. May cost a bit more, but lasts well. Required for a commercial application.

[kevin]

I have the barely crusher, no complaints. I crank by hand so it can be a real workout.. :rolleyes:

[Mikegobrew]

I have the barely crusher, no complaints. I crank by hand so it can be a real workout.. :rolleyes:

+1. My corded drill smokes from running it at lower RPM's to long and my cordless gets super hot and goes through 2 battery packs then I have to hand crank anyway. So I just hand crank it all now. Takes me awhile to crush the grist for a 10 gallon batch, but I feel great afterward.

[Beer Martin]

+1. My corded drill smokes from running it at lower RPM's to long and my cordless gets super hot and goes through 2 battery packs then I have to hand crank anyway. So I just hand crank it all now. Takes me awhile to crush the grist for a 10 gallon batch, but I feel great afterward.

You should buy a motor before you have to replace 2 drills.
________
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[BignJames]

I've got a barley crusher as well....I use my drill....which is better than hand cranking. I've got a rebuilt windshield wiper motor.....just haven't mounted it yet.

[seafra]

Oh, goody. Another chance to flaunt the GRIM CRUSHER!
1203
1204

--Bodine gear motor: 270 lb/in torque. Final RPM: 120.
--Barley Crusher mill, chews 2.5 lbs per minute.
--Nickel plated drive chain.
--18 inch folding legs.
--Banded in 3/4" brushed aluminum.
--Custom Plexiglas chain guard.
--Ridiculous pimped out design by the Realbeer community members.:cool:
________
Amber trichomes (http://trichomes.org)

[Mikegobrew]

You should buy a motor before you have to replace 2 drills.

Or 1 arm! :D

[kevin]

Oh, goody. Another chance to flaunt the GRIM CRUSHER!
1203
1204

--Bodine gear motor: 270 lb/in torque. Final RPM: 120.
--Barley Crusher mill, chews 2.5 lbs per minute.
--Nickel plated drive chain.
--18 inch folding legs.
--Banded in 3/4" brushed aluminum.
--Custom Plexiglas chain guard.
--Ridiculous pimped out design by the Realbeer community members.:cool:

Nice... That's artwork..

[nelstrodomus]

Oh, goody. Another chance to flaunt the GRIM CRUSHER!
1203
1204

--Bodine gear motor: 270 lb/in torque. Final RPM: 120.
--Barley Crusher mill, chews 2.5 lbs per minute.
--Nickel plated drive chain.
--18 inch folding legs.
--Banded in 3/4" brushed aluminum.
--Custom Plexiglas chain guard.
--Ridiculous pimped out design by the Realbeer community members.:cool:


270 lb/in torque! Love the overkill, and beautiful crusher. Just don't stick your fingers in there because they're toast.

[chapesh]

wow! talk about pimp my grain mill! i love the flaming skull.

[Powhatan]

I use a 3-roller Monster Mill with 1/2" DeWalt drill for my 20 gal batches with no issue - very happy with it.

[Mill Rat]

Yeah, I turn my JSP maltmill with a 1/2" Milwaukee magnum convertible hammer drill (on the no-hammer setting). No problems except trying not to mill so fast I turn it into a powder.

[Mikegobrew]

Ok, so how fast is too fast. If a mill is designed to be turned by hand, how do you know when you went too fast with a drill or motor?

[wortchillergoal]

Or 1 arm! :D

I know I have posted this before, but it seems worth it again here.

When I worked at the restaurant supply house, we sold meant grinders both hand and motorized. One day a gent looking to buy one just before deer season told me why he needed a new one. His buddy had hooked up his drill to the grinder and ended up grinding two finger doen to the knuckle.

[BignJames]

Ok, so how fast is too fast. If a mill is designed to be turned by hand, how do you know when you went too fast with a drill or motor?


For me...by hand I'd be lucky to hit 60 rpm.....I wonder if you could install a pot on a drill to act as a goveror?

[BignJames]

Or a governor?

[beerking]

I have an old Valley Mill, which has a label on the side where the handle (or drill) attaches, which says: "Speed Limit 300 RPM."

[Powhatan]

I also understand 300 to be the limit... I don't know the actual speed I use, but it is a variable speed drill so I keep the mill going at just above stall speed.

[seafra]

Ok, so how fast is too fast. If a mill is designed to be turned by hand, how do you know when you went too fast with a drill or motor?

Unless you're very physically fit, maintaining 60 RPM on a hand turned mill is beyond most of us. As far as how fast is too fast, I think that would vary among different mill designs and then even be different according to spacing of the rollers. My Barley Crusher runs at about 120 RPM and the grist is not noticeably different from when I hand milled (make that, when my kids hand milled for me).

As far as grain mills actually being "designed" to be hand turned, the issues goes beyond just the construction of the mill. Some manufacturers (e.g. Barley Crusher) do not recommend motorizing their mills, and their concerns are also about safety and litigation. As well, they do not want to be replacing mills under warrantee because of poorly designed motorizing systems. While gathering ideas for building my motorized mill, I saw PLENTY of accidents waiting to happen. Manufacturers have to cover their @ss, and saying "don't motorize this thing" is their CYA tactic.

The main design issue with motorizing is side loading the mills' roller bearings. The worst way to torque a mill shaft is with a belt drive system that is under high tension. (Yes, I know many have belt drives that have operated for years, but, in the words of Scotty, "You can not change the laws of physics, Captain.") I opted to build a chain drive system because it creates significantly less side loading. The chain doesn't need to be tensioned like a belt.

One thing that I tried to even further reduce side loading was to mount a block bearing on the mills shaft between the drive sprocket and the mill. THIS FAILED MISERABLY! Any slight distortion (bend, bump, warp, angle) in the shaft will cause the mounted block bearing to become a lathe on the shaft. [I blame my inability to KISS (keep it simple, stupid) on my slight German ancestry: they over engineer everything.]

On last tip, placing your sprocket or sheave closer to the mill on the shaft will reduce side torque resulting from any distortions in the shaft itself.
________
Vapor Genie Vaporizer (http://www.vaporshop.com/vaporgenie-vaporizer.html)

[BignJames]

I'm planning on using a flex coupling of some type.....The wiper motor is a gearmotor w/right angled shaft. The direct drive should limit side loading.....I think.

[chapesh]

is the wiper motor dc? what is the rpm of it? i am still looking into this.

[Mikegobrew]

Wow, thanks for the advice guys. Milling and mowing is about all the working out I do. Maybe I should stick with them. :D

[Mikegobrew]

I know I have posted this before, but it seems worth it again here.

When I worked at the restaurant supply house, we sold meant grinders both hand and motorized. One day a gent looking to buy one just before deer season told me why he needed a new one. His buddy had hooked up his drill to the grinder and ended up grinding two finger doen to the knuckle.

Yep, I've already had one brewing accident if you all remember. I DON'T need another one... knock on wood.

[BignJames]

is the wiper motor dc? what is the rpm of it? i am still looking into this.


Yep.....I've got one for a Ford....that I'm familiar with...having had to work on the one in a van I owned....but I've ordered one of these too..


http://monsterguts.com/electric-motors/12vdc-wiper-motor/prod_4.html


I should have it together in a few weeks....I'll let you know how it works.

[cul8rv8]

I have the rear wiper motor from my Eclipse that is going to be used for a Flying Crank Ghost (Halloween decoration) first, but when I get my mill I will be putting it on there. It's going to take a little more work, though, as the gears are built a little different being a rear window wiper. Currently I have it on a 12v 1000mA power supply and it gives ~ 30 rpms. Granted this is with nothing attached to the output shaft.

[BignJames]

I have the rear wiper motor from my Eclipse that is going to be used for a Flying Crank Ghost (Halloween decoration) first, but when I get my mill I will be putting it on there. It's going to take a little more work, though, as the gears are built a little different being a rear window wiper. Currently I have it on a 12v 1000mA power supply and it gives ~ 30 rpms. Granted this is with nothing attached to the output shaft.


As long as it has enough torque I wouldn't be real concerned with the rpms, as long as they're no too high.

[msk]

From the barley crusher web site:

"The standard hopper holds an even 7 pounds and the optional large hopper holds 15 pounds. Using a 3/8 drillmotor at 500 RPM gives you a crush rate of 6 pounds a minute making the big grain bills fast and easy. "

I use my 800RPM battery powered drill on it. It likely does not spin full speed on a battery. It does not seem any faster than the Grim Crusher's accounting, and I am certain that I do not empty the extended hopper in three minutes [perhaps next time, I will watch the clock, but I always wear out the battery, so it would seem that it has to take longer]. If I recall, more speed shreds barley rather than pushing it through faster, but my output seems to be fine. Perhaps the results would be worse if my drill had a cord and the drill could hold 800RPM better

[ClaudiusB]

My mill is equipped with a Bodine gear motor and mills just over 3 lb a minute at 94 RPM.


Cheers,
ClaudiusB

[chapesh]

well i went with the mm3, and i like the washer motor idea, heck i even have some old computer parts in the basement for it! now to design my hopper and mounts! thanks for the advice guys. on a side note do you think that windshield washer motor would have enough torque for a mash mixer?

[BignJames]

well i went with the mm3, and i like the washer motor idea, heck i even have some old computer parts in the basement for it! now to design my hopper and mounts! thanks for the advice guys. on a side note do you think that windshield washer motor would have enough torque for a mash mixer?


I don't think so.....you'll need a gearbox or some other force multiplier.

[ClaudiusB]

on a side note do you think that windshield washer motor would have enough torque for a mash mixer?
I looked at the data BignJames supplied for his wiper motor, enough torque (40lb-in) to mix 12 kg grain.
Wiper motor (http://monsterguts.com/electric-moto...or/prod_4.html)
I do it with a Bodine gear motor and half the torque, 20lb-in in my 50l mash tun.

For my 200l mash tun I use a motor with 146lb-in of torque.


Cheers,
ClaudiusB

[chapesh]

i was planning on using this for my decoction mashes, the part i pull to add to the heat. so the weights will be smaller than for a full mash. also has anyone used a mud type mixer? the kind you would use for plaster or grout? i don't know how they would work at the speeds we are talking about.
also i have the hopper and base set up for the mill, now i have to get the motor and sprockets and chain. then we shall see how this works. thanks for the ideas!