Ok needing some help here.

[vance71975]

Ok what i am going to try to do with the recipe i am working on is bring together what 3 different people like in a beer into one beer. The three things are Wit beers (my woman) IPA's (my woman's boss) and Imperial Stouts/Porters/Big Dark Strong Beers(Me). So i guess you could call what i plan to make an "Imperial Wheat Stout IPA". So this is what i have planned so far, and for once i am not posting as i am brewing!!!!

The Base will be 9lbs Dry Bavarian Wheat Malt Extract.

I plan to do 8 to 10 Oz Hops.But not sure on WHAT hops i want to use. I am thinking either Warrior Or Columbus for Bittering but that is as far as i have got on hops.

Grains well im not 100% sure. Some Black Patent, Chocolate malt, English Brown,Crystal 120L, Special B maybe?

Yeast Well i have NO idea, I would say Trappist just cause it can hang with high gravity but, its still up in the air.Unless someone has an idea for a better Yeast. If im pitching dry it will be 3 or 4 packets. If im Pitching a liquid yeast it will prolly be 2 packages.

Here is a VERY VERY rough draft idea, and i am completely open to changing it.


1.50 lbs. Crystal Malt 120°L
0.50 lbs. American Black Patent
0.75 lbs. Belgian Special B
1.50 lbs. English Brown Malt
0.50 lbs. English Chocolate Malt
9 lbs. Dry Wheat malt Extract
1 oz. Columbus (Whole, 15.00 %AA) boiled 60 min.
1 oz. Columbus (Whole, 15.00 %AA) boiled 45 min.
1 oz. Fuggles (Whole, 4.75 %AA) boiled 30 min.
1 oz. Fuggles (Whole, 4.75 %AA) boiled 20min.
1 oz. Fuggles (Whole, 4.75 %AA) boiled 15 min.
1 oz. Cascade (Whole, 5.50 %AA) boiled 5 min.
1 oz. Cascade (Whole, 5.50 %AA) Flame out.
Dry Hop (Day 3) 1oz Mt Rainer Hops
Dry Hop (Day 5) 1oz Fuggles
Dry Hop (Day 7) 1oz East Kent Goldings
Yeast : ?

OR

1 lbs. American Black Patent
1 lbs. American Chocolate Malt
1 lbs. Weyermann Carafa II
1 lbs. Crystal Malt 90°L
1 lbs. Honey Malt
9 lbs. Dry Wheat Malt Extract
1 lbs. Molasses (flame out)
1 oz. Columbus (Whole, 15.00 %AA) boiled 60 min.
1 oz. Columbus (Whole, 15.00 %AA) boiled 45 min.
1 oz. Fuggles (Whole, 4.75 %AA) boiled 30 min.
1 oz. Fuggles (Whole, 4.75 %AA) boiled 20min.
1 oz. Fuggles (Whole, 4.75 %AA) boiled 15 min.
1 oz. Cascade (Whole, 5.50 %AA) boiled 5 min.
1 oz. Cascade (Whole, 5.50 %AA) Flame out.
Dry Hop (Day 3) 1oz Mt Rainer Hops
Dry Hop (Day 5) 1oz Fuggles
Dry Hop (Day 7) 1oz East Kent Goldings
Yeast : WYeast 3787 Trappist High Gravity

Also Considering some Late Additions(flame out) Buckwheat Honey or Brown Sugar Or Molasses Leaning toward Molasses. Maybe some Orange Peel And Coriander, but not sure.
Maybe a teaspoon of Gypsum, Calcium Chloride. Or Maybe a Pre-mixed Water Salt.

I really want this brew to come together and come out awesome, Hell maybe even be something new, but im sure its prolly been done. Any input would be great!

[vance71975]

wow 32 views and no posts i think i stumped everyone yay me lol!

[Beer Martin]

Sorry, Vance. I have no idea what direction you should take. I had a friend do a Belgian stout using the abbey yeast on a stout recipe and a little added wheat. It was a bit weird. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't great either.

I'm not sure I could imagine that beer loaded with hops. My palate can't discern something that sounds good to drink. I'm not saying it will be bad, but it's something I can't really even imagine.

Good luck, though.
________
Yamaha Fz1 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Yamaha_FZ1)

[vance71975]

Sorry, Vance. I have no idea what direction you should take. I had a friend do a Belgian stout using the abbey yeast on a stout recipe and a little added wheat. It was a bit weird. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't great either.

I'm not sure I could imagine that beer loaded with hops. My palate can't discern something that sounds good to drink. I'm not saying it will be bad, but it's something I can't really even imagine.

Good luck, though.

Oh ya i expect this one to be a challenge, that was why i am wanting input, but i don't have to use an abbey yeast, i mean i could do it all with safebrew-05 or Nottingham. With a Wheat base, converted to a Stout with specialty grains then hopped into the ground.

This one is kinda a challenge, i guess what i would like my fellow brewers here to do is, Look at what i am trying for and tell me what they would do if they were gonna brew it at home. So here is the challenge, Wheat Malt is the base, Stout/porter is the target color, it will be imperial so i am looking at a starting gravity over 1.085 or higher, and it will be IPA, so i am looking for 6 to 10 oz hops.

So here is your basis Dry Wheat Malt Extract, you tell me How Much Dry Wheat Malt Extract You would use,what Hops, What Specialty grains, what adjunct Sugars IF any you would use, and What Yeast you would use. Following the above Overview that is in bold. Come on all it will be a Fun Challenge!!! All i ask is be original,think outside the box and have fun, this isn't a contest beer, if doesn't have to follow any standard guide lines other than the ones listed above. Come on all lets see what you got!

[corkybstewart]

Here's my $.02 on color. Use carafa II for color. It will give you the color you want without the roasty, charcoal flavor BP will have. Anything overly roasty will not work well with the natural sweetness of wheat. I would just go with a pound of brown malt, .5 pounds special B, .75 of Carafa II and your wheat malt.
A pound of molasses in this will be cloying and the taste can easily overpower the other flavors in this beer. Knock that back to .5 pounds.

[Beer Martin]

Here's my $.02 on color. Use carafa II for color. It will give you the color you want without the roasty, charcoal flavor BP will have. Anything overly roasty will not work well with the natural sweetness of wheat. I would just go with a pound of brown malt, .5 pounds special B, .75 of Carafa II and your wheat malt.
A pound of molasses in this will be cloying and the taste can easily overpower the other flavors in this beer. Knock that back to .5 pounds.

Without roasted barley you wont have a stout. A wiezenbock or dunkelwiezen is a beautiful thing, but a wheat-based stout they are not.
________
Bondage Model (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/395/model/videos/1)

[vance71975]

Here's my $.02 on color. Use carafa II for color. It will give you the color you want without the roasty, charcoal flavor BP will have. Anything overly roasty will not work well with the natural sweetness of wheat. I would just go with a pound of brown malt, .5 pounds special B, .75 of Carafa II and your wheat malt.
A pound of molasses in this will be cloying and the taste can easily overpower the other flavors in this beer. Knock that back to .5 pounds.

What Yeast and Hops would you do if you were making it yourself corky?

[annasdadhockey]

What would be the problem with brewing 3 small batches(maybe 2.5 gallons each) of a wheat, a RIS, and a IIPA? When bottling, maybe take 1/3 from each fermenter, mix them, and bottle, leaving the rest to be bottled individually. That way, if it tastes ungodly awful(not saying that it will), you didn't waste a whole batch, and might still have some good brews come out of it. Just a thought.

[corkybstewart]

Without roasted barley you wont have a stout. A wiezenbock or dunkelwiezen is a beautiful thing, but a wheat-based stout they are not.
I realize that, but I think the whole premise here is to get something drinkable. I love chicken, my wife loves fish and my kids love beef, but I've never tried to incorporate all three into the same dish, and that's what Vance is attempting. Wheats and wits are very different critters and I love my dunkleweisens, but I can't imagine a roasty tasting wit as being good. Maybe I'm just wrong, maybe this will be as good as mother's milk.
Also buttloads of hops don't make a wit good either so I see a lot of problems with that aspect as well.

[corkybstewart]

What Yeast and Hops would you do if you were making it yourself corky?
I'm not trying to cool your imaginative brewing ideas but this recipe has too many things going in different directions. I'm also not a style nazi and love to mix and match stuff, but I start out with a clear goal, usually after I've tasted something commercial and enjoyed it.
I'm not a hophead which probably explains why I love stouts and wits and hefe's and have never brewed an IPA in 16 years of homebrewing so I'm not the one to ask about hops.
So here's what I would do. Call it an Imperial Wheat stout and use your second recipe as is. Ferment it as cool as you can and be ready to secondary this one for 6 months. It's going to finish with a very high FG because of of all the Crystal malts but that will be OK.

[vance71975]

I love chicken, my wife loves fish and my kids love beef, but I've never tried to incorporate all three into the same dish, and that's what Vance is attempting.

Never had Jambalaya? But seriously what yeast would you use on this if you were going to attempt it?

[vance71975]

What would be the problem with brewing 3 small batches(maybe 2.5 gallons each) of a wheat, a RIS, and a IIPA? When bottling, maybe take 1/3 from each fermenter, mix them, and bottle, leaving the rest to be bottled individually. That way, if it tastes ungodly awful(not saying that it will), you didn't waste a whole batch, and might still have some good brews come out of it. Just a thought.

lol thats an idea but i have no room, i have 3 carboy's and 2 are in use and still will be come brew day on this one!

[vance71975]

This one is kinda a challenge, i guess what i would like my fellow brewers here to do is, Look at what i am trying for and tell me what they would do if they were gonna brew it at home. So here is the challenge, Wheat Malt is the base, Stout/porter is the target color, it will be imperial so i am looking at a starting gravity over 1.085 or higher, and it will be IPA, so i am looking for 6 to 10 oz hops.

So here is your basis Dry Wheat Malt Extract, you tell me How Much Dry Wheat Malt Extract You would use,what Hops, What Specialty grains, what adjunct Sugars IF any you would use, and What Yeast you would use. Following the above Overview that is in bold. Come on all it will be a Fun Challenge!!! All i ask is be original,think outside the box and have fun, this isn't a contest beer, if doesn't have to follow any standard guide lines other than the ones listed above. Come on all lets see what you got!

Come on guys run with it!

[Windigstadt]

First a story, then some advice...

The story: I went to college at a Lutheran university. There are two main synods of the Lutheran church, each with its own liturgy and hymnal, and while most Lutheran schools are affiliated with one or the other, mine is unaffiliated. In an effort to be all-inclusive, the Sunday chapel services incorporated parts of both services and both hymnals. The end result? None of the Lutheran students felt comfortable in chapel because the half that didn't come from their liturgy made the entire experience seem strange. Hopefully you see where I'm going with this. You can try to brew a beer that combines three disparate styles, and I bet you'll like it and I'll like it, but don't expect somebody who only drinks Witbiers or only drinks stouts to like it.

Now, moving on... I recently brewed a "Black Witbier" which could serve as a base for what you want to do. For a 10-gallon batch I went with ten pounds flaked wheat, ten pounds pale malt, one pound Carafa III and one pound chocolate wheat malt. I added coriander and orange peel at five minutes and pitched a Wit yeast. I think next time I'll cut down on the chocolate wheat as it came out a little more roasty than I wanted (and the roasty flavors can overwhelm some of the Wit-like character), but overall I was happy with the results. My fear was it would just taste like a stout, and I definitely pick up some Wit-like tang as well as the characteristic coriander and orange. You could try bumping up that recipe to get to your desired gravity and up the hops. Now obviously upping the hops will overpower the coriander and orange, but you're going to have to sacrifice one or the other. Good luck.

[vance71975]

Now, moving on... I recently brewed a "Black Witbier" which could serve as a base for what you want to do. For a 10-gallon batch I went with ten pounds flaked wheat, ten pounds pale malt, one pound Carafa III and one pound chocolate wheat malt. I added coriander and orange peel at five minutes and pitched a Wit yeast. I think next time I'll cut down on the chocolate wheat as it came out a little more roasty than I wanted (and the roasty flavors can overwhelm some of the Wit-like character), but overall I was happy with the results. My fear was it would just taste like a stout, and I definitely pick up some Wit-like tang as well as the characteristic coriander and orange. You could try bumping up that recipe to get to your desired gravity and up the hops. Now obviously upping the hops will overpower the coriander and orange, but you're going to have to sacrifice one or the other. Good luck.
That would work but i am not an all grain brewer, so ill need to convert that to extract.Oh i know, My woman doesn't drink ONLY wit beer and i don't drink ONLY stout(but i am pretty much only a dark beer drinker lol), and her boss doesn't drink ONLY IPA's so the three people i want to like it i think will.

[Mill Rat]

Windigstadt, would those services have been in the Chapel of the Reverberation? If they were, when I was in attendance at said institution, a College of Engineering instructor occasionally gave a presentation on the construction of that edifice, for which he was the construction manager. In the course of that lecture, he would note that the brick used to build it was developed especially for that structure, and was given the name "Valparaiso Amber." He would then dryly comment that he always thought that Valparaiso Amber was a beverage.

[Windigstadt]

You are correct, Mill Rat (I figured any alum would figure that one out right away). There's a new production brewery opening soon in Valpo and a brewpub opening in Hobart, so maybe one of them will brew Valparaiso Amber!

Oh, and for the record the path to my beer/homebrewing obsession started with my semester in Reutlingen. Thank God for those GERMAN Lutherans!

[markaberrant]

Ok, I'll give it a stab:

9lbs wheat DME
1 lb carafa special II (dehusked)
2 oz amarillo @ 60
1 oz amarillo @ 5
1 oz amarillo dry hop

Add spices @ 5 minutes left in boil
0.75 oz Coriander
0.5 oz Sweet Orange Peel
0.5 oz Bitter Orange Peel
15 black peppercorns

Wyeast 3944 (make a smaller beer first, then repitch 1 cup of slurry)

This should contain all of the elements you described, but trying to keep them relatively tame so they don't overpower each other. You got the wit character with the spices and yeast, smooth roasted flavours and colour from the carafa, and the amarillo hops give you the american IPA qualities, but not that overly agressive piney character, Amarillo is very floral/tropical/ruby red grapefruit.

[vance71975]

Ok, I'll give it a stab:

9lbs wheat DME
1 lb carafa special II (dehusked)
2 oz amarillo @ 60
1 oz amarillo @ 5
1 oz amarillo dry hop

Add spices @ 5 minutes left in boil
0.75 oz Coriander
0.5 oz Sweet Orange Peel
0.5 oz Bitter Orange Peel
15 black peppercorns

Wyeast 3944 (make a smaller beer first, then repitch 1 cup of slurry)

This should contain all of the elements you described, but trying to keep them relatively tame so they don't overpower each other. You got the wit character with the spices and yeast, smooth roasted flavours and colour from the carafa, and the amarillo hops give you the american IPA qualities, but not that overly agressive piney character, Amarillo is very floral/tropical/ruby red grapefruit.

Sweet sounds good thanks for putting it out there Marka! come on guys keep um coming!

[vance71975]

Oh come on guys Only two people are brave enough to take a stab at it?

[vance71975]

Here is a toned down version based on some private advice. This Puts me at a IBU of 96.6 and gets rid of the "grassy" flavor from the Cascade.Also Tones down the Dark Grains to avoid the burnt flavor being overpowering.
Imperial Wheat Stout IPA

1lbs. Weyermann Carafa II®

1/4 lb. Roasted Barley

6 lbs. Dry Wheat Extract

6 lbs. Dry Extra Light Extract

1oz. Columbus (Pellets, 14.2 %AA) boiled 60 min.

1 oz. Hallertau Mittelfruh (Pellets, 4.50 %AA) boiled 60 min.

2 oz. Hallertau Mittelfruh (Pellets, 4.50 %AA) boiled 15 min

2 oz. Hallertau Mittelfruh Dry Hop Day 1

2 oz. Hallertau Mittelfruh Dry Hop Day 7

Yeast :? Im thinking a Blend of yeast strains. Maybe a Wheat Strain with A London ESB Strain and an Irish Strain. Something along that lines. Maybe add Nottingham to the mix as well.

[Beer Martin]

Oh come on guys Only two people are brave enough to take a stab at it?

Sorry, Vance, I just can't wrap my brain around it. I don't want to give advice for something I can't really envision.

markaberrant, advice seems pretty solid, but to me seems to be lacking on the stout side of things. Your looking at a dark Belgian IPA. It actually sounds like it could turn out pretty good, but is missing the roastiness that I would associate with stouts.

Though, I suppose you'll have to tame each style a little to get a good beer, especially the stout.

The wit may loose some character with the large amounts of dry hopping.

Go for it and let us know how it turns out. I just don't know what direction I would go with this.
________
ANGELINA JOLIE PIC (http://www.angelinajoliepics.com/)

[corkybstewart]

Drop the Carafa to 3/4 pound, and increase the roast barley to 3/4 pounds. That'll be a roastier blend of dark malts.

[vance71975]

Drop the Carafa to 3/4 pound, and increase the roast barley to 3/4 pounds. That'll be a roastier blend of dark malts.


Imperial Wheat Stout IPA

3/4lbs. Weyermann Carafa II®

3/4 lb. Roasted Barley

6 lbs. Dry Wheat Extract

6 lbs. Dry Extra Light Extract

1oz. Columbus (Pellets, 14.2 %AA) boiled 60 min.

1 oz. Hallertau Mittelfruh (Pellets, 4.50 %AA) boiled 60 min.

2 oz. Hallertau Mittelfruh (Pellets, 4.50 %AA) boiled 15 min

2 oz. Hallertau Mittelfruh Dry Hop Day 1

2 oz. Hallertau Mittelfruh Dry Hop Day 7

Yeast :? Im thinking a Blend of yeast strains. Maybe a Wheat Strain with A London ESB Strain and an Irish Strain. Something along that lines. Maybe add Nottingham to the mix as well.

Now comes the hard question, What yeast or combination of yeasts should i use? I am figuring as big as this is i will need a total of 5 packages of dry yeast or at least 3 smack packs.

I am fairly sure 1 will be a wheat yeast I am thinking the safe brew wheat i do believe its 06. Above that i just am not sure, i don't think i want all wheat yeast, but what to go with it is eluding me.

[markaberrant]

Noble hops really aren't meant for dry hopping. 4oz of hallertauer mittlefruh is going to taste like nothing but grass. Mmmm... imperial grass stout.

I'm still not sure what type of wheat beer character you want, so it is hard to help with yeast selection. Witbier? Hefeweizen? Or do you just plan to use a large amount of wheat in grain bill?

[vance71975]

Noble hops really aren't meant for dry hopping. 4oz of hallertauer mittlefruh is going to taste like nothing but grass. Mmmm... imperial grass stout.

I'm still not sure what type of wheat beer character you want, so it is hard to help with yeast selection. Witbier? Hefeweizen? Or do you just plan to use a large amount of wheat in grain bill?

Witbier type and i have 6 lbs wheat malt extract in it. What hops should i dry hop with? So Something more like the following?

Imperial Wheat Stout IPA

3/4lbs. Weyermann Carafa II®

3/4 lb. Roasted Barley

6 lbs. Dry Wheat Extract

6 lbs. Dry Extra Light Extract

1oz. Columbus (Pellets, 14.2 %AA) boiled 60 min.

1 oz. Hallertau Mittelfruh (Pellets, 4.50 %AA) boiled 60 min.

2 oz. Hallertau Mittelfruh (Pellets, 4.50 %AA) boiled 15 min

2 oz. Willamette Dry Hop Day 1

2 oz. Willamette Dry Hop Day 7

Yeast :? Im thinking a Blend of yeast strains. Maybe a Wheat Strain with A London ESB Strain and an Irish Strain. Something along that lines. Maybe add Nottingham to the mix as well.

[markaberrant]

If you want witbier, I would use 3942 for yeast and ferment in the mid-60s. It's not as bold as 3944. If you are going for IPA, either dry hop with goldings for English, or Amarillo/Cascades for American.

[vance71975]

If you want witbier, I would use 3942 for yeast and ferment in the mid-60s. It's not as bold as 3944. If you are going for IPA, either dry hop with goldings for English, or Amarillo/Cascades for American.

Cool thank you everyone who has chimed in on this, i might just name this realbeer community IPA!