IC to CFC conversion

[nelstrodomus]

I have 2 immersions chillers that have been hooked up together for about the last year. It cools down 10 gal of wort in about 15-20 minutes, but the law of diminishing returns doesn't allow me to get the wort below 70F (except in the winter). Seeing as I prefer to brew beer in the warmer months, I want to convert half of my IC into a CFC so I can reduce the temperature from boiling to say 100F, and then transfer from the kettle into my fermenters with the CFC.

So here's the question: I typically never drained the 2 IC's completely because their configuration didn't allow the air to pass through it efficiently. I've looked inside the copper and there seems to be a fair amount of corrosion. Can this be effectively cleaned for passing my precious wort through it without contamination?

I have the ability to pass 10 gallons of boiling water through it via my HLT, but I'm not sure if this would do it justice, it would also allow me to test the efficiency of the CFC if I am to make it with this tubing. If all else fails, I cough up the cash and buy more copper but I don't wanna!

[Beer Martin]

My suggestion. I have a club member that does this.

Use the counterflow chiller for the first stage wort chilling. Run water from your facet or outdoor hose in inside and the hot wort in the opposite side.

For the second stage immersion chiller, you wont be dipping it in wort. You will actually be running your chilled wort into it. Drop the immersion chiller into a cooler full of ice and run the wort out of the counterflow and into the immersion chiller in the ice bath.

Depending on your exact chillers you can cool wort very effectively. My club member says he regularly can get his wort to 40 deg F this way. He does have like 50 feet of copper in his ice bath, but even with the standard 25 ft immersion chiller you could expect good results. He also doesn't use a pump for the wort side. He just uses gravity feed.

As for cold break, it will all go into the chiller outlet. He racks into a carboy and lets it sit for an hour for the trub to go to the bottom of the vessel. Then he racks off of the trub into his fermentation carboy. For ales you'd have to wait for the temperature to rise back up anyways.

Just some tips. I've been thinking about switching to this sort of method myself.

As for cleaning the immersion chiller. Just run some boiling water through the inside and follow it with some PBW solution. Then rinse. Do the opposite before your first use (rinse, PBW, Boiling water).
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[nelstrodomus]

I may be very confused, but to me it seems as though you're suggesting two counterflow chillers...?

I don't make lagers yet, so I typically would prefer to 60-65F anyway...but long story short, you're saying I can do boiling water, PBW, rinse and I'm OK?

[Beer Martin]

I may be very confused, but to me it seems as though you're suggesting two counterflow chillers...?


No, just 1 CFC. First Stage is the CFC as it would normally be operated.

The second stage you use the IC. Instead of using the IC by dipping it in wort and running water through it, you will be dipping it in a cooler full of ice and running wort through it. Your wort will be moving anyway so it's not a big deal to just run it through the inside of the IC. You get more efficient chilling this way, and a 20 lb bag of Ice shouldn't be all warm water at the end.

If you use the IC in your pot then the CFC hooked up to the hose or sink, you'll never get your wort colder than your chilling water. In Florida here, my ground water is between 80-93 degrees F. We definitely need a secondary chilling. I currently run the hose through my IC until the beer gets to 100, then switch to a pump recirculating ice water through the IC.

I don't make lagers yet, so I typically would prefer to 60-65F anyway...

If your wort is coming out too cold you could just let the first half come out at 40 or 50, then the second half pull in IC out of the ice and you'll be about right on.

but long story short, you're saying I can do boiling water, PBW, rinse and I'm OK?

You should be ok. Rinse it a few times, then taste the rinse water to see if there are any funky flavors, but you should be fine. Just be careful, the water coming out will still be boiling hot as will be the chiller. Wear oven mitts and be ready to collect the hot boiling water out of the out end.
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[corkybstewart]

Run a strong vinegar solution through your copper, it will remove all of that corrosion(verdigris). I do that about every 3 times I use my CFC.
Beer Martin, you've given me a pretty good idea here. I've been using my immersion chiller to get the wort down to around 90F and then I put the CFC into an ice bath to get it under 70F, but it's very slow. I really hate putting the immersion chiller into the wort, it just doesn't seem "clean". I may use my IC like you suggest after the CFC, it seems like direct contract with the ice bath might be more efficient. I'll try it tonight with water.

[beerking]

Here is a different approach:
Run icewater through the inside of your second IC. Saves time and effort converting your IC to CFC, and you don't have to worry so much about sanitation, or what is on the inside of the chiller. Put the IC in the wort during the last 10 minutes of the boil, and it will be sanitized on the outside, which is all that will matter.

I use a single IC, which I run icewater through (use a small pump hooked up to a large ice chest). In order to improve the efficiency of my cold break, I run the wort through a hose which is wedged into the top coil of the IC. I let the wort run from the boil kettle to a second kettle with the IC in it. This makes the wort run down the coils of the IC, accelerating the initial cooling of the wort.

I consistently get my wort as low as I want (42F for lagers, which does require a third bag of ice. Ales only require 2 bags). It also leaves all the hot break in the kettle and lets me decide what percentage (if any) of the cold break I want to allow into the fermenter (there is a final transfer from "whirlpool" to the carboy).

[nelstrodomus]

See being from the north (barely), our tap water is typically around 50-55F so I am very easily able to get my wort down to 100F in less than 10 minutes, so I figure a gravity pass with a ball valve at the bottom of my CFC would allow for enough contact time with the wort to sufficientlyget the wort down to a pitchable temp.

Corky - thanks for another idea of removing the copper corrosion issue. Will do. What's a strong vinegar solution, 1:1?

[corkybstewart]

I use about a gallon of cheap white vinegar in 3 gallons of water, but the first time you may want to use a 50/50 mix and try to let it soak inside the chiller for a little while. Rinse, repeat, and from then on it's easy to keep clean.

[nelstrodomus]

I use about a gallon of cheap white vinegar in 3 gallons of water, but the first time you may want to use a 50/50 mix and try to let it soak inside the chiller for a little while. Rinse, repeat, and from then on it's easy to keep clean.

Corky, can I expect the 'original' finish when I do this method? Just wondering if that's how I can gauge the cleanliness.

Back to a few threads, if you're putting your immersion chiller into a bath of ice water, and running it through the copper tubing itself, isn't that basically a CFC!? It makes more sense just to do what beerking does...

My plan is to put a ball valve on the output of my CFC to restrict flow at the outlet, thus increasing the contact time. I also plan on taking 10" of copper tubing and attaching one of those sticky thermometers onto it to gauge the temperature of the discharge water, under the assumption that the discharge water is relatively close to the discharge wort. Anyone have any thoughts on that - obviously there will be some differential in wort/discharge temperature...

[Mikegobrew]

Corky, can I expect the 'original' finish when I do this method? Just wondering if that's how I can gauge the cleanliness.

Back to a few threads, if you're putting your immersion chiller into a bath of ice water, and running it through the copper tubing itself, isn't that basically a CFC!? It makes more sense just to do what beerking does...

My plan is to put a ball valve on the output of my CFC to restrict flow at the outlet, thus increasing the contact time. I also plan on taking 10" of copper tubing and attaching one of those sticky thermometers onto it to gauge the temperature of the discharge water, under the assumption that the discharge water is relatively close to the discharge wort. Anyone have any thoughts on that - obviously there will be some differential in wort/discharge temperature...

I've found those sticky thermometers to not be so accurate. If your willing to spend a little, this thermometer from NB looks like a viable option. It would measure the wort temperature for you.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/brewing-equipment/testing-measuring/thermometers/thrumometer.html