Pros and Cons

[vance71975]

I was wondering what the Pros and Cons Are of the following priming methods, i have read all the standard info about them but i am wanting to hear from other brewers that have experience with the different methods listed below.Also What amounts you would use for a higher carbonation level without creating bottle bombs lol(other than the mutton's and the coopers).I understand i ask a lot of questions but please bare with me i am trying to learn as much as i can from as many people as i can, and i know some times my questions seem very similar, i have adhd and its how i learn, buy asking the same question in different ways to get different though patterns on them.


Priming Sugar

Brown Sugar

Molasses

Maple Syrup

Corn Syrup

Honey

Dry Malt Extract

Coopers Carbonation drops

Mutton's Carbonation tabs

[HogieWan]

the priming sugar and the carb tabs/drops give you a consistent level of carbonation because they ferment the same everytime. However, the others have a blend of sugars they may or may not ferment with a particular yeast.

If you want the others for flavor, I'd suggest letting them ferment out before bottling and using priming sugar for carbonation

[corkybstewart]

Every time this comes up I give the same advice. Use corn sugar, table sugar, or DME to prime your bottles. Period. Honey, maple syrup, any other flavored sugar can be used in the brewing process but they are wasted as priming materials. You can't use enough of them for priming so that they contribute any flavors, and they are too inconsistent in sugar concentration to be able to accurately know how much to use. Corn syrup has lots of other crap in it besides sugar-it has flavoring and usually preservatives I think.
If you want honey or maple flavor, add them at flameout or in secondary, but just use sugar for priming.
As for the carbonating tabs I hear way too many stories about inconsistency, and off flavors associated with them, but I have never used them so I don't know for sure.

[Mikegobrew]

Between priming sugar and DME, I have a book called "Homebrewing For Dummies" that says the DME would be the "purists choice". That being said, I have always used priming (corn) sugar.

[vance71975]

Use corn sugar, table sugar, or DME to prime your bottles.

I have read about off flavors from Corn Sugar or Table Sugar, is this more of a risk in primary and secondary than in bottling? Corn Sugar i know use 3-5oz depending on the carbonation level you want, but what about DME, How Much DME would i want to use? i am really leaning toward DME simply because i have tasted a sample of this batch and it was amazing, i really don't want off flavors in this match in the bottling stage!

Basically this batch tasted so good that i don't want to screw it up at the bottling stage and ruin it, also i don't want to make bottle bombs.It seriously tasted so good to me that i would consider entering it in competitions.

I really don't want to alter the flavor when i bottle it.

Also do you recommend bottling with heading powder?Will heading powder or liquid change flavor?

[Seanibus]

I was wondering what the Pros and Cons Are of the following priming methods, i have read all the standard info about them but i am wanting to hear from other brewers that have experience with the different methods listed below.Also What amounts you would use for a higher carbonation level without creating bottle bombs lol(other than the mutton's and the coopers).I understand i ask a lot of questions but please bare with me i am trying to learn as much as i can from as many people as i can, and i know some times my questions seem very similar, i have adhd and its how i learn, buy asking the same question in different ways to get different though patterns on them.


Priming Sugar

Brown Sugar

Molasses

Maple Syrup

Corn Syrup

Honey

Dry Malt Extract

Coopers Carbonation drops

Mutton's Carbonation tabs


I have become hooked on force-carbonating over all of these options. It does require a keg setup, of course, and a counter-pressure filler or something similar (I use a Bleichman Beer Gun, which is terrific) to put it into the bottles. I will have a very hard time ever going back to carbonation by priming. I found it to be inconsistent and messy. The kegged and force-carbed beer comes out beautifully and there is no chance of bottle bombs if you make sure the bottles are clean and sanitized.

The bottom line is that it is worth every dollar you spend on the setup.

[splocal]

+1 on that I got a keg setup a few months ago and I love it it is so much easier! I only wish I had a beer gun so I can take that great beer with me....I will get one its just a matter of time or should I say money :D there is just nothing like having a fresh home brew right out the tap great head great taste their just Greeeaattttt!!!! And beer bombs suck it happened to me once before!

[Seanibus]

+1 on that I got a keg setup a few months ago and I love it it is so much easier! I only wish I had a beer gun so I can take that great beer with me....I will get one its just a matter of time or should I say money :D there is just nothing like having a fresh home brew right out the tap great head great taste their just Greeeaattttt!!!! And beer bombs suck it happened to me once before!

I lost maybe half a dozen to bottle bombs over the years, though fortunately they went off in the cases down in the basement, so there was no spray of glass or anything.

But the keg stuff rocks.

[corkybstewart]

I have read about off flavors from Corn Sugar or Table Sugar, is this more of a risk in primary and secondary than in bottling? Corn Sugar i know use 3-5oz depending on the carbonation level you want, but what about DME, How Much DME would i want to use? i am really leaning toward DME simply because i have tasted a sample of this batch and it was amazing, i really don't want off flavors in this match in the bottling stage!
Also do you recommend bottling with heading powder?Will heading powder or liquid change flavor?
You will use so little sugar to prime your beer that it really makes no difference whether you use corn or table. That's why I recommend against priming with other stuff. Those off flavors you're thinking of come into play wen you use sugar for a high percentage of your fermentables.
DME works great, but it takes a lot longer to carbonate your bottles since yeast can more easily convert the very simple sugar molecules into alcohol and CO2. Add 1.25 cups of DME to a pint of water, boil 15-30 minutes at least until you have boiled off half the water. Keep in mind that DME is not boiled during it's creation like LME is.
And I have no idea what heading powder is.

[vance71975]

And I have no idea what heading powder is.

Heading Powder is simply dextrose and gum arabic.

[cavers]

I've primed with both corn sugar and DME, and have never noticed any off-flavours - not even a bit - from the corn sugar. You only use a touch of it, and the stuff ferments very cleanly. I guess it's not entirely "pure," but it sure works well.

[wortchillergoal]

And I have no idea what heading powder is.

Heading powder is a substance that wil help you maintain head retention even though the cop is knocking on the car window.

[corkybstewart]

Heading powder is a substance that wil help you maintain head retention even though the cop is knocking on the car window.
Now that I'm a couple of years past geezerhood that sounds interesting.:D
But to the OP, if you really want to be a purist, next time can a quart of wort and add it back to the bottling bucket. That way you're priming your beer with your beer. The Germans have a name for this process which I can't remember.

[vance71975]

Now that I'm a couple of years past geezerhood that sounds interesting.:D
But to the OP, if you really want to be a purist, next time can a quart of wort and add it back to the bottling bucket. That way you're priming your beer with your beer. The Germans have a name for this process which I can't remember.
cool, not so much wanting to be purist,just really really like the flavor of this brew and don't want it to change lol

[wortchillergoal]

Now that I'm a couple of years past geezerhood that sounds interesting.:D
But to the OP, if you really want to be a purist, next time can a quart of wort and add it back to the bottling bucket. That way you're priming your beer with your beer. The Germans have a name for this process which I can't remember.

It is called krausening. It is not as easy as just holding back a quart of wort. There are measurements that need to be done based on volume of product and hydrometer readings. I have thought of doing it but have been told it can be hard ot get results that will make you happy.

i use DME 99% of the time. It changes the flavor not and gives me nice results.

[corkybstewart]

I didn't figure it was as easy as I stated. Priming is one of the most unpredictable aspects of homebrewing. That's why I keg.

[Mikegobrew]

Vance, I'd suggest just using corn sugar for priming this time. Since it's your first batch, start somewhere and go from there. I'd bet even though you like the taste of the beer, they will get even better. I was impressed at my first attempt. Looking back, it wasn't THAT great. Trust me, you'll make even better beer in the years to come!

[vance71975]

Vance, I'd suggest just using corn sugar for priming this time. Since it's your first batch, start somewhere and go from there. I'd bet even though you like the taste of the beer, they will get even better. I was impressed at my first attempt. Looking back, it wasn't THAT great. Trust me, you'll make even better beer in the years to come!

Oh no doubt i will make better and better as time goes on! But i will say taste wise this batch is comparable to a Store bought stout(at least to my taste buds)I'm thinking DME to prime, my brew store has it pre-weighted for priming!

[HogieWan]

It is called krausening. It is not as easy as just holding back a quart of wort.

nope - krausening is priming with fermenting beer, usually the next batch. Adding non-fermenting wort is called Spiesegabe


http://www.deadyeast.com/yeastmeister.php

[vance71975]

nope - krausening is priming with fermenting beer, usually the next batch. Adding non-fermenting wort is called Spiesegabe


http://www.deadyeast.com/yeastmeister.phpMore info for all to enjoy:

Kräusening for natural carbonation

Kräusening is the traditional method that German brewers use to carbonate their beer. Traditionally kräusening is done with lager beers in order to overcome the problem of yeast going dormant during lagering. With ales, kräusening is not really necessary (the exception is wheat beers, which should be kräusened for style reasons).

Kräusening is the introduction of actively fermenting wort at the stage of “high kräusen” to a finished beer. Generally, the carbonation period should be significantly reduced over other methods of natural carbonation and kräusening helps in reducing diacetyl and aldehydes, which are quickly taken up by the new yeast.

If you’re currently carbonating with priming sugar or carbonation drops, you will notice that the flavor of the beer is different if you change to kräusening. I personally believe it gives the beer a cleaner flavor. Almost everything I brew is kräusened.

It’s a fairly simple process. When you’re done brewing and chilling, save some of your gyle (wort before yeast is pitched into it) in a gallon jug. Refrigerate that jug, and go about your usual routine with your brew. Don’t worry, some of its going back in at bottling time, so you’re not losing that entire volume.

Presumably you made a yeast starter for this brew, save a small amount (anything from 25ml or higher is sufficient) of that starter in a sterile jar before you pitch it into your wort. Refrigerate that along with the jug of gyle.

Just prior to bottling (how long depends on your method for making starters), take out your saved yeast starter and your gyle. Let them warm back up to room temperature. Take an O.G. reading from your gyle. Take an F.G. reading from your finished beer. Since this is the gyle that made this batch of beer, and the yeast, the F.G. of the beer gives you a reasonable assumption of where the F.G. of this starter will be.

This is where you get to make a choice. Various sources will tell you that in order to get reasonable carbonation; you need to add 3 points of gravity back into your beer. I’ve found that I’m happy with the results I get from adding 2 points, but you can adjust this to your style if more or less is required.

So, let’s say your gyle starts out at an O.G. of 1.060. Your finished beer ended up with an F.G. of 1.014. You can reasonably expect that this gyle will also get down to 1.014. Prepare the starter and let it begin. The actual volume you’re going to use is calculated on bottling day. When your starter shows signs of high kräusen, it’s ready to use. Take a gravity reading of the starter. Let’s say it’s at 1.040 now, and you expect it to get to 1.014. That means it’s still got 26 points left to go. To get 3 points of gravity added back to your beer at bottling time, you need:

3 points/26 points to go = 3/26 of the starting volume. For a 5 gallon batch (5 gallons of finished beer), you need 3/26 of 5 gallons = roughly 2.25 quarts that you’re going to add back at bottling time. If you wanted 2 points of carbonation, 2/26 = roughly 1.5 quarts back.

You don’t need to use the gyle from this batch; you can use any gyle that isn’t going to conflict with the taste of your brew. You just need to have an idea of what its O.G. is, and what its F.G. is going to be.

A simpler but similar method that I have used extensively is NOT kräusening, but carbonates very well. I believe it’s called Spiesegabe.

After brewing and chilling, save some of your gyle in a gallon jug and refrigerate till bottling day (the reserve gyle is called spiese in German). Prior to bottling, take an O.G. reading of the gyle. Basically using a formula from Charlie Papazians book (this is incorrectly called kräusening in the book):

gyle = (12 x gallons)/((S.G.-1) x 1000))

example:

gyle = (12*5)/((1.040-1)*1000))

gyle = 60/40

gyle = 1.5 quarts

Take 1.5 quarts of gyle, boil it to sanitize it (yes, I know its been refrigerated all this time, try leaving it, sealed, out at room temperature for a couple of days, and watch it start fermenting without adding anything, boiling is not sterilization). Cool it, and mix it back into your finished beer prior to bottling. Note that I took this reference directly from the book, I’ve used it before, and it works fine, however since it does not take the final gravity into account in the calculation, your brews may wind up with a little more variation in carbonation than if you used the kräusening equations listed above.




http://www.deadyeast.com/spiesegabe.php


http://www.deadyeast.com/krausen.php


and a couple calculators to play with!

[CATpAW Brewing]

hey Vance,
getting back to your original posting on carbonation methods, here's my 2 bob's worth on Coopers carbonation drops.

I always bottle as I don't have kegging facilties. I bottle into 740ml long neck PET bottles. I have used various sugars measured into the bottles and other carbonation drops, but always come back to the Coopers drops.

I am originally from South Australia, the home of Coopers, but provide the following unbiased views - I always come back to the Coopers drops as being the easiest, most reliable method. For low carbonation levels I use 1 drop, for middle of the road 2 drops, and for high carbonation 3. How easy can it be!

Ok, if I was as technical and discerning as many members are I would use different measures of sugars and types to better compliment the style I am bottling, but whilst passionate about what I make, I can't discern enough impact from the sugar type, method or amount to detract from the pleasure of what I make.