Melanoidin Malt vs. Decoction Mashing

[Beer Martin]

On Sunday I'm making a bohemian pilsner. I was explaining this to a friend of mine and he said just use melanoidin malt instead of a decoction mash.

I'm not sure what the differences would be. For the sake of style, and me never having done a decoction mash, I'm just going to do the triple decoction.

Though, is using melanoidin malt a viable option to skip the decoction and end up with the malty character associated with the style?
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[HogieWan]

melanoidin malt doesn't give that decoction flavor. I have been kicking around the idea to try boiling a gallon of first runnings separately to see if the melanoidin character would show up

[markaberrant]

boiling does create some melanoidins, but I think it is substantially less than what a decoction can create. And then melanoidin malt is a completely different beast. I'm too lazy to do a decoction, so I mess around with extended boils and melanoidin malt. Is it the same? Not really. But is it still really good? Yes.

[HogieWan]

boiling does create some melanoidins, but I think it is substantially less than what a decoction can create.

yes, but I'm talking about the thickest liquid and boiling for the full 60-90 mins

[corkybstewart]

yes, but I'm talking about the thickest liquid and boiling for the full 60-90 mins
That's my plan for an upcoming wee heavy, but for a good German lager suck it up and do the decoction, it's really not very hard.

[BrewDog]

Why go straight to a triple decoction? Try doing a single decoction first and see how that goes. You can always brew it again and add more decoctions.

[corkybstewart]

Why go straight to a triple decoction? Try doing a single decoction first and see how that goes.
I do a single decoction to get from 148F to 170F and that works great for my bocks and marzens, but those are darker beers than the pilsner.

[TrickNick]

...it's really not very hard.

I just switched to AG recently and did my first decoction mash for a 10 gallon batch of Hefe. I did a double decoction and have to agree that it was much, much easier than I expected. To be honest, it was kind of fun to change up my procedures and have something new to think about.

[Beer Martin]

Thanks for the feed back, guys. I don't feel that it should be hard. The most difficult step will be staying sober enough through the lengthy mash process to track time.

I may experiment in the future with melanoidin malt and see what happens. It may be easier to get away with in a bock. The light pils doesn't have anything to hide behind.
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[markaberrant]

I may experiment in the future with melanoidin malt and see what happens. It may be easier to get away with in a bock. The light pils doesn't have anything to hide behind.

Agreed. For darker beers, I just go with 100% munich as a base malt, and long boils. IMHO, decoctions are most important in a pils or a hefe. You can still go with a touch of melanoidin in these beers instead of a decoction, but it just won't have that "traditional" taste.

[Beer Martin]

Agreed. For darker beers, I just go with 100% munich as a base malt, and long boils. IMHO, decoctions are most important in a pils or a hefe. You can still go with a touch of melanoidin in these beers instead of a decoction, but it just won't have that "traditional" taste.


Do you think adding a small amount of melanoidin malt and doing a multiple decoction would be overkill?

I'm leaning toward maybe that could be a future experiment, after having done a decoction and tasting the batch.
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[chapesh]

decoction mashing is not hard at all. like most things new it only seems daunting, until done a few times. i have done multiple decoction, however a single decoction seems to give that malty character just fine. try this formula for your weight of mash to pull, (212-your desired mash temp./212-current mash temp-20) take this and multiply your total mash weight. this will give you your amount of mash to pull by weight. don't forget to include the weight of water added to the mash in your total mash weight. fyi i never sweat being a little under my weight to pull. also when they say dole it back into the mash they mean it, take your time to hit your desired temp. and stir stir stir stir when your bring your decoction mash to boil.

[Beer Martin]

Just finished my triple decoction. It was really easy and the Beer Smith calculations were spot on (within 2 deg F).

I just started the boil. A triple decoction was certainly extremely time consuming, but easy to do. I think I'll do a dopplebock next and only do 1 decoction.
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[Beer Martin]

Just a pop back into this topic. I was thinking about using melanoidin malt again to save time for a Weizen. Funny enough I googled the question "how much melanoidin malt?" and this thread was the first result.

But I'm just going to do a single decoction.

So, this will now be my second decocted beer, but far less rigorous than the Bohemian.

For the lazy, if anyone knows how much melanoidin malt one should use, feel free to divulge.
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[Shaun Goeckner]

Hey guys, I have tried both methods and settled on Melanoiden for my Scottish beers, Irish Ales and Bohemian Pilsner. But for my Scotch Ale and Dopplebock there is indeed nothing like decoction.

So I compromise. I fly sparge 4 gallons into a 26 gallon kettle starting the flame after the 1st gallon ( you may want to do like 2 gallons in a 15 gallon keg or 1 gallon for a 5g batch) and scoop out like a 2qts pot of mash, placing it in a muslin bag tied shut. I put that in the kettle and boil the bejeebers out of it for like 3 minutes. Then I dump the grain back in the mash kettle and collect the additional wort for my batch.

This gives me the best of both worlds; intense malty flavor from a decoction, and a time savings combining a decoction while heating wort.

Voila! Then we have beer...