konsidering kegging

[beerbreath]

Never done it. I am planning on a recipe that calls for 8 months "conditioning" time (from Northern Brewers called "Lord Fat Bottom"!). Is this a bad idea in a stainless keg? Would the beer be better off in glass bottles? Should priming sugar be added or left out of the keg? Should I pressurize the keg right away then seal and wait? or leave flat while it ages then pressurize? Should it be left at room temp or chilled? Is an aeration "stone" a good idea for carbonating a keg? The recipe is for an ale, not a lager.
Appreciate your expertise. Thanks, Beerbreath

[JayShaw91]

The keg is perfectly fine to age the beer in. Don't prime it with sugar if you plan on dispensing it from the keg. Just carbonate it later.

Do pressurize the keg - but just a bit. I think you need 20lbs of pressure to seal everything (can someone confirm?). You don't want the beer to carbonate, you just want to make sure the keg is sealed off. The CO2 will also keep any O2 out. That's the point.

I'd suggest cold aging it if you can, but if it is in the low 60's I think you'll be fine.

For carbonating the keg, the easiest, most accurate way - but the longest - is to hook up the keg in the kegerator to the CO2 and let the beer sit for at least a week - preferably two. What style of ale is this? We'll need to know that to suggest a carbonation level... but you have 8+ months to sweat that :)

[seafra]

So, what if the guy needs to long-term keg condition at room temp (72-75 F)?
________
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[JayShaw91]

Still not a problem, just not optimal :)

[ANGELofDEBT]

I would not recommend that you use this recipe as your first keg experience. Use a simple recipe to get the kegging process down. It takes some playing around with head pressure and serving hose length to get thing right and it would be a shame to use up a beer that you conditioned for months.

[Mikegobrew]

Or maybe leave it in secondary to age until it's ready, then keg it? Then you'll have the experience from previous batches kegging. I've never kegged either, but I don't think my first attempt at aging in a cornie would be a barley wine like Lord FatBottom.

[beerbreath]

Tnx for your helpful responses. You make good points about trying my hand at kegging on a shorter term beer first. Makes sense to leave it in a secondary while I try out kegging with something else. Any suggestions for the optimum aging temp for Lord Fatbottom?
As the OG of this barleywine is very high and the yeast may be stressed, what do you think about additional yeast for a boost in the secondary? I have a 5 gal. plastic water jug... would that serve well enough for a secondary (with an airlock in place, of course)?

[corkybstewart]

A buddy of mine left a barley wine in a keg for 2 years in his garage, and down here summertime garage temps easily hit 100, winter temps are often in the 20's. He claims he was cleaning his garage and found it with his empty kegs. That barleywine won a competition and led to a full time brewing job.
But for most of us you don't want to tie up a keg for 8 months unless you have plenty of kegs.
I would not add any yeast in secondary, the beer should be fully fermented before it gets racked to secondary so the yeast won't have anything to eat except themselves. You probably would want to add 1/2 pack of dry yeast when you bottle it.
And for 8 months you really need glass or stainless-plastic lets oxygen through and by the time yo bottle your beer it will be oxidized.

[Mikegobrew]

Corky, I'm curious what the 1/2 pack of dry yeast is for. Is this because the yeast in secondary after 8 months will not be able to consume the priming sugar?

[corkybstewart]

Exactly. There may be enough active yeast left after 8 months but why risk it. Without enough viable yeast your beer will take a lot longer to carbonate the bottles, if ever.

[cul8rv8]

Agreed. I made a barleywine, and didn't think about adding additional yeast, It was in primary for 3 weeks, secondary for 2.5 months, and has been in bottles since Nov 2007, and it is definitely not carbonated. It's my biggest disappointment in my beer making, because it is a really good barleywine, other than being too sweet due to the priming sugar not being consumed.

[HogieWan]

I have about 3/4 a case of BW I bottled in May of 05. I didn't age it more than 2 months total before bottling. There was plenty of yeast to carbonate and it has aged well under pressure.

If you have an extra keg, go ahead and prime it and let it sit.

[JayShaw91]

Beer 101 question. Why not bottle it like Hogie did - early on - and let it just age in the bottles? You free up a fermenter and you have yeast to eat your priming sugar...

[HogieWan]

Beer 101 question. Why not bottle it like Hogie did - early on - and let it just age in the bottles? You free up a fermenter and you have yeast to eat your priming sugar...

the yeast was why i bottled early. I could have waited a lot longer though, as those bottles have LOTS of yeast on the bottom

[Mad Scientist]

I aged an Xmas ale for slightly over 1 year in akeg, but I had the extra kegs to do it.

[Mikegobrew]

So is there any difference in the beer between aging in secondary or under pressure in bottles?

[HogieWan]

most "aging" is small particulates dropping out of suspension. There is more molecular action under pressure and that may slow down the process, but the amount of pressure we use for beer is not that significant to make much difference

[beerbreath]

Tnx, you guys are a wealth of information, makes me very hoppy! Brings up more questions though. If you condition/age a beer in a keg, say for a couple months, can you then decant it and bottle it or will there be too much carbonation or other problem? My thought is I would go from the primary to the keg (no priming sugar/no pressurization) pressurize enough to blow out the O2, then let it mellow for a couple months. After that I would transfer to another keg with some priming solution in it and immediately bottle from there so it could naturally carbonate and continue to age to the target date (8 months). We're talking a barleywine here. Your thoughts?

[corkybstewart]

Stainless kegs make great secondary vessels. An easy way to do what you want is to make a jumper hose with beer-out fittings on each end. This way you can gently transfer the beer from one keg to the other, whether it's carbonated already or not. You may need to attach a fitting onto the gas post that's open so pressure doesn't build up in the new keg and impede flow.
And mixing priming sugar in a keg and bottling directly is very easy-just put a hose long enough to get to the bottom of the bottles onto the end of your picnic tap, pressurize the keg to about 4-6 psi and fill your bottles. One of the big advantages is that your beer is not exposed to O2 during the bottling process.

[BrewDog]

The vast majoiry of us who keg do exactly that when we bottle for competitions, etc.

I use a counter-pressure bottle filler. Others swear by the beergun. Still others simply attach a bottling wand to their cobra tap and go commando.

Things to consider when bottling out of kegs:

1) Keep the beer and bottles clean, sanitized and COLD. Cold beer and bottles helps minimize foaming.
2) Cap on the foam.
3) Using 1 big bottle (aka Corny Keg) is a hell of a lot easier than 50 little bottles. :D

HTH-

[beerking]

I would also say that for the Beergun method, or the Cobra tap "commando" method, you want to boost your carbonation a bit (2-3 psi), because you will lose a little when bottling.

[BrewDog]

Great point, BK. Forgot to mention that.

[corkybstewart]

I think he's talking about adding priming sugar and filling bottles with uncarbonated beer. I used cornies as a bottling bucket the last few times I bottled anything. It's real handy with or without the Beergun since there's no foam to deal with.

[BrewDog]

DOH-

Yep. I need to read more carefully. Sorry.

[beerking]

I missed that as well, although I must point out that you will get carbonation if you let the beer age in a sealed keg for a couple of months. Maybe even enough to not need any further carbonation (unless you are venting the keg daily).
Also, I pretty much consider carbonating a beer to be a part of "conditioning." Thus, I am not really sure just what you mean by "conditioning" if you are not carbonating the beer.

[beerbreath]

Appreciate all your input, sorry for the confusion of terminology. As Corky interpreted, I was thinking of filling bottles with un-carbonated beer from a corny to which had been added, at the last minute, some priming solution.
As for "conditioning", I didn't appreciate the subtleties that carries. I thought it merely referred to the time allowed for the flavors to meld and the proteins, etc to settle out. But thanks, I'm learning.

[corkybstewart]

You're right about conditioning-it can happen anywhere. And kegs are perfect for that. Once in a while I'll get a keg that carbonates itself over time, but since I leave my beer in primary a long time there's not much sugar left for yeast to consume in the kegs. More often I'll have a little pressure in the headspace, but the beer itself isn't carbonated.
You'll have to stir your keg gently to get a good mix with the sugar, or even better use a jumper to transfer to a fresh keg with the sugar solution poured into the bottom. This will ensure a well primed beer so there should be consistent bottles.

[corkybstewart]

.
Also, I pretty much consider carbonating a beer to be a part of "conditioning." Thus, I am not really sure just what you mean by "conditioning" if you are not carbonating the beer.
A lot of my kegs sit around for several months before I ever hook them to the gas. Right now in the beerroom I have a keg of Happy Wife, 2 kegs of brown ale, and a keg with the tag torn off. SInce there's no space in the fridge or the kegerator they may be there for quite a while "conditioning" without becoming carbonated.

[beerbreath]

or even better use a jumper to transfer to a fresh keg with the sugar solution poured into the bottom. This will ensure a well primed beer so there should be consistent bottles.

Great minds! That is just what I had envisioned so that the filling of the fresh keg would mix the beer with the primer already there ... modest amount of turbulence to integrate the fluids.
BTW... what is Happy Wife? Sounds like a brew we should all keep on hand.

[corkybstewart]

http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=8910
Happy Wife is my house pale ale, a recipe I developed for Brigitte years ago. She turns into UnHappy Wife if that tap runs dry. Although this weekend she had the last glass of my last keg of ready HWPA, so when I switched her to my Pilsner she was very happy with it.

[PsychoBrew]

I highly recommend Corky’s happy wife recipe. I have made a couple of batches of it. My wife and her friends like it very much.