10 gallon batches

[Mikegobrew]

I was wondering if anyone knows how much yeast is needed to ferment a 10 gallon batch of medium gravity ale without stressing the yeast out? I almost always make a starter from White Labs or Wyeast for a 5 gallon batch. So if the manufacturers claim that their yeast is directly pitchable into a 5 gal. batch, would a starter be enough to ferment a 10 gallon batch? Or should I use 2 viles or packets? I tried to read up on pitching rates, but who the hell knows how many cells there are after a starter?
Mike

[beerking]

A single vial/pack is not sufficient for 5 gallons, regardless of what they say.
For a good trove of information on how much yeast, starters, etc, check this site out: http://www.mrmalty.com/

[corkybstewart]

I routinely do 10(or even 15) gallon batches with one vial(not vile) of White Labs yeast. Boil 3/4 cups of DME in 1.5 quarts of water. Cool the DME solution, add the yeast and pour into 2 sanitized wine bottles or other containers you can stick an airlock into. Once the krausen drops, chill and pour the liquid off. Add more DME solution(boiled, chilled) and replace the airlocks. I start a week ahead of brewday, but then lots of time I'm using expired yeast or yeast from bottles.

[S.F.B.]

I do similar to Coky for 20 gallon batches. I do 2 vials of White Labs in a 1 gallon starter. The night before brew day I boil 1 lb of DME and a pinch of hops in a gallon of H2O for 15 minutes. Cool and pour into a gallon jug. Add the yeast and let go over night. By the time the wort cools the action in the starter is very vigorous. Pour into fermenter and have visible signs of full blown ferment within 8-12 hours.

[Mikegobrew]

Thanks for the replies...I was waiting in line for 3 hours to have my pic taken with the Stanley Cup. So one vial (notice I spelled it right this time:rolleyes: ) is good enough with a starter if I use the slurry from it and get another one going. The only times I don't use a starter is when I get an unexpected day off or plans change and I can brew, I do it anyway. Last thing I'm gonna do is not brew when given the chance because I didn't have a starter. Good to know. I am curious though about Corky's bottle comment. I've heard you can use the yeast at the bottom of a bottle, but how do you get that count up? how many starter, slurry, starter, etc. cycles are needed for that? And can I use a commercial beer that is bottle conditioned like Sierra N to get that going? Thanks.
Mike

[corkybstewart]

For instance I'll use the yeast in brett beer bottles to funk up my saisons. Sometimes I've made a starter solution and rinsed the dregs from an Orval bottle into the starter vessel(usually a flask now). Other times I'll rack the beer into a carboy and just add the dregs directly. Recently I even added brett dregs from several different beers over a 2 week period directly into the carboy.
I've even just added the starter solution into a bottle of La Roja that I just poured into a glass, using the bottle as a starter vessel.
I've only done this with brett but in theory it can be done with any bottle conditioned beer. Keep in mind that lots of breweries filter or centrifuge their fermenting yeast and replace it with some very neutral bottling yeast. Or the yeast can be so old and degraded that nothing happens.

[Mikegobrew]

Thanks Corky. I don't know that much about Brett beers and have never tasted them. I actually don't buy much commercial beer since I started homebrewing. Most of what I drink now (except out in bars) is what I brew. But after I crack a HB, I can add starter solution, swirl, cover with tinfoil, and then put that in a full size starter and not have to buy the yeast? This could be awesome and save me some $, although I work in a bar and have a customer buying all of my ingredients for 5 gallons out of a 10 gallon batch. Not a bad deal if you ask me.

[Mikegobrew]

I finally had the time to go on the Mr.Malty web link. Pretty good link, thanks BeerKing. Btw (not that I believe it) but they also say that a single vial/pack is sufficient for a 5 gallon batch. Like I said I usually make a starter, but when I havent and use a smack pack that swells before pitching, I've never seen a difference. The lag phase is longer, but that's the only thing I could say was different.