Malt extract shelf life

[beerwizza]

Hello everyone, I'm getting ready to resume homebrewing after a 9 year hiatus. Going thru my stuff I have found 4 cans of Muntons malt extract. I'm guessing somewhere around 10 years since purchased. Been in my very cool cellar, never being exposed to hi temps. The tops of the cans have bulged a little but nothing that would make you run for cover. Do you think they're useable? I bought some new ingredients but just wondering about these. Oh. I also found a near full case of homebrew that is 10 years old that I labeled EB? but have no idea what it really is. Still carbonated, nice dark amber clear color. Tasted so-so. Probably why I forgot it there. Well, I have a lot of cleaning to do before brewing. Thanks for any help.
Rick.

[vw addict]

I personally wouldn't use extract that old, especially liquid.

[BrewDog]

Welcome back-

Yeah, get yourself some fresh extract. The old stuff is stale by now at best or has botulism at worst (bulging cans is one symptom) and it will just make some bad beer at best or kill you at worst.

Also, read up here and on some of the other boards about how some of the old practices are not recommended any more. One such example is the old way of steeping your specialty grains in cold water, heating the water up, and pulling them out when the pot begins to boil. That causes harsh tannin exctraction causing astringency. Instead, steep them at a temp that never exceeds 170F - constant temps at 150F or so are best, as they match mashing temps.

John Palmer has a new version (3rd edition) of his book "How to Brew" and it is right on the money as far as listing best practices.

HTH-

[beerwizza]

Thanks. I'm more afraid of what would happen when the can opener cuts through. POP! I guess they would still be good for target practice. Thanks for the heads up on steeping. I was getting ready to brew that way this morning. I'll have to check out that book. I used to keep a journal 10-12 years ago when I brewed, but lost it, so I'm starting over as a newbie.
Rick.

[corkybstewart]

Welcome back to the addiction. I am a self taught homebrewer-Mad Scientist is the first other homebrewer I ever met-and since I joined here I've completely had to re-think my brewing practices. It's amazing how much good info is out there now. People are skipping secondary a lot more often and just leaving beer in primary longer. I was doing that out of laziness but it really has improved the quality of my beer. I also was totally ignorant of how important temp control is during primary. Longer primary and temp control have improved my beer 1000% over what I was brewing 9 years ago.
There are also lots of yeasts and hops that weren't available 9 years ago, dry yeast have really improved and last years hop crisis has had people re-thinking their recipes.

[BrewDog]

Yeah, autolysis is way overblown. 2 or even 3 week primaries are better than the old "get it off the yeast cake as soon as possble" route. Secondary is basically optional. I still do them only so that less yeast goes into my kegs and I get a clearer end product. They are basically a 'brite tank' for me.

Like Corky said, fermentation temp control is very key, as is pitching adequate yeast counts and adequate aeration. Don't proof your dry yeast any more, just rehydrate it in boiled water that has cooled back down to around 90F. For wet yeasts, go to http://www.mrmalty.com and check out his yeast pitching calculator and the various articles on starters and the other goodies. Jamil Z. is one hell of a brewer and his recipe book (which he co-wrote with John Palmer) is highly recommended.

HTH-

[DecoJuicer]

I know that I have been away for a few months, but WTF?!?!?! When did all of this stuff start happening?? No more secondaries? No proofing yeasts?? Are we still supposed to clean and sanitize everything, or is the junk left over good for the beer now??

Help a brother out here. I feel like a novice again.

[BrewDog]

Deco-

I know you weren't taught to proof yeast - where you wake the dry yeast up in a sugar/water solution. THAT was the old school method. Yes, starters are still good to build up cell counts for wet yeast. But secondaries have been kinda going out for a year or so.

And, yes, continue to clean and sanitize everything. That hasn't changed. :D

[DecoJuicer]

I do seem to remember proofing yeast for my first few batches, when I was using dry yeast. After that, I went with liquid and never thought twice about it. Today, however, I am using a dry yeast again for simplicity's sake. I did plan on just adding the packet right to the primary though.

Although, come to think of it, maybe I proofed the yeast when I was making bread. That might be possible. Again with the mini-strokes.

I just started reading some stuff on another board that a friend of mine keeps gushing about, and so many of them don't use secondaries. Personally, I like to have a nice clear beer going into the keg, so maybe I'll start keeping the beer longer in primary and then just start using the secondary for a brite tank, like you were talking about. I'll see what happens.

I'm still not sure about the need for cleaning and sanitizing though.:rolleyes:

[BrewDog]

Yeah, I call it the "2-1-3" method.
Works well for me. Nice clean beers with minimal yeast in the keg.

[JayShaw91]

What about just leaving it in primary for 3 weeks and cold crashing the beer for a few days before moving it to the keg?

[corkybstewart]

What about just leaving it in primary for 3 weeks and cold crashing the beer for a few days before moving it to the keg?
Depending on the yeast I use I can just go directly from primary to keg in 2-3 weeks and have nice clear beer with very little sediment, even without the cold crashing. I've had 5 kegs go dry on me in the past 2 weeks so yesterday I cleaned them all. There was only the thinnest layer of crap at the bottom of each keg.
There are some yeasts that aren't very flocculant and they tend to need longer at cold temps to clear up,

[Mad Scientist]

Welcome back to the addiction. I am a self taught homebrewer-Mad Scientist is the first other homebrewer I ever met-and since I joined here I've completely had to re-think my brewing practices. It's amazing how much good info is out there now. People are skipping secondary a lot more often and just leaving beer in primary longer. I was doing that out of laziness but it really has improved the quality of my beer. I also was totally ignorant of how important temp control is during primary. Longer primary and temp control have improved my beer 1000% over what I was brewing 9 years ago.
There are also lots of yeasts and hops that weren't available 9 years ago, dry yeast have really improved and last years hop crisis has had people re-thinking their recipes.

You know corky, I think you were the first homebrewer I met as well, with excepton of the neighbor that I started brewng with...

[corysdad]

Depending on the yeast I use I can just go directly from primary to keg in 2-3 weeks and have nice clear beer with very little sediment, even without the cold crashing. I've had 5 kegs go dry on me in the past 2 weeks so yesterday I cleaned them all. There was only the thinnest layer of crap at the bottom of each keg.
There are some yeasts that aren't very flocculant and they tend to need longer at cold temps to clear up,


OK, what about a Hefeweizen I will brew
next week that will be bottled, 2 weeks
in primary then rack to bottling bucket and
package, no secondary?

[BrewDog]

Hefe's are supposed to be cloudy and drank young. You'll be fine.

[iahebert]

Going back to dry yeast, I pitched a windsor ale yeast straight in last night and the suckers were going strong after about 3 hours.

Do you think there's any risk of pitching them straight into the wort?

[Mad Scientist]

Nope......

[iahebert]

Nope......
Well Said.
thanks!