Sparging

[GunNut76]

Since I will be getting into AG soon I was wondering what the concensus of this board is on sparging. Which method, in your opinion, is easier. If brewmonkey thinks this should be moved so be it.

[bierboy]

Batch, batch, batch, batch. Life is too short to fly.

[toneyc]

Can you define those terms, please? I know what sparging is, but I've never heard the terms batch and fly in this context.

:)
Toney.

[bierboy]

Fly sparging is when you trickle the water over the grains to get the residual sugars. It is the method that one sees in most books.

Batch sparging is adding all or half of the sparge water at once, letting the grains settle for about 15 min and then drawing off the wort. I usually do this in two steps and achieve 75-80% effeciency. It takes at least 1/2 the time.

[Payson]

I love watching the sparge arm rotate and trickle! A beautiful site!

[chris1kanobi]

I love hearing the cherpa, cherpa, cherpa, and the clock going tick, tick as my mash looses heat, my hose gets air bubbles and locked up. Oh yeah, and hoisting 6 gallons of 175 deg water over my head and scalding my eyebrows. Nah, I am kidding. I do prefer batch sparging to fly, and I know many brewers like the calming rain of a sparge arm in action.

[Tweek]

Chris1kanobi. everytime I see the caption under your pic I wonder if you intentionally misspelled dictator, or if it is something else. makes me think of those carved potatoes, well you can gather what they were carved as.

[Beerconnoisseur]

Well, I enrolled in a twelve-step program. Fly Spargers Anonymous. I'll probably switch to batch at some point; just not yet. I can quit anytime I want to..... ;)

[chris1kanobi]

That was my Halloween costume. I just put a potato in my underwear, and every body askes "Who are you supposed to be?"

[Fast_Eddy]

For everyone interested here's a link to what the BYO Wizard says about batch:

http://www.byo.com/mrwizard/1127.html

[Jeff]

I read the article on batch sparging in this month's BYO. It made it look easy and cheap. So for the all grain pros out there: What are the drawbacks of the setup? Is it really that easy? And what would you do differently in the setup?

[chris1kanobi]

On the bottom of this page I have a drawing and discription of how I batch sparge. http://www.freewebs.com/homebrew/process.htm
I think that it is much easier, faster and makes better beer. I think that everyone should atleast try it, and see what it is like.

[Jughead]

Is anyone else using Palmer's method of floating a tupperware lid on top of the mash and dumping water onto the lid whenever the water level in the mash approaches the grain level? There's no extra equipment to buy, it's easy to do and it seems to work okay.

[toneyc]

Yes, I used the tupperware lid method last weekend for my first all-grain batch. I had my sparge water pot up on the counter, my mash bucket on a chair, and my brewpot on the floor.

And Jeff, it is that easy! The only thing I had to buy was the false bottom. I got the stainless steel one from St. Pat's for $20. I already had the bucket and the hose. And I didn't have to mess with malt extract!!! Woohoo!

:)
Toney.

[SLOSHomebrewers]

I fly, but not really fly.

One hand on the pint, the other on the hot liquor hose, and sprinkle the water on like writing my name in the snow. I feel like I am truely hand-crafting my brew.

I have a sneaking suspicion batch sparging would cause hot-side aeration and tannin release...
________
YAMAHA CS2X (http://www.yamaha-tech.com/wiki/Yamaha_CS2x)

[OldHooky]

I tried batch sparging on my latest brew just to see the difference. It definitely gave me more time to drink.

[Moondoggy]

Originally posted by chris1kanobi
On the bottom of this page I have a drawing and discription of how I batch sparge. http://www.freewebs.com/homebrew/process.htm
I think that it is much easier, faster and makes better beer. I think that everyone should atleast try it, and see what it is like.


Chris,

I just read your home page; very nice. It has inspired me to attempt all grain brewing and I'll try your method listed on your page.

Out of curiosity, how did the kegging go and how did the flavor match up after kegging on the "The RyePA Experiment"?

[chris1kanobi]

SLOSH stated-"I have a sneaking suspicion batch sparging would cause hot-side aeration and tannin release..."

Tannins are released at temperatures above 175 deg. When batch sparging I heat my sparge water to 170 and then stir into the mash. The temperature stabilizes at around 165. It is often thought that disturbing the mash will release tannins from the husk. Or that stirring the mash will mix oxygen into the grain and thus creating HSA. If the mash is stirred gently, HSA and tannin release is not a concern. Most large breweries stir the mash during mashing, to equalize heating. Their mash tuns are huge copper or stainless kettles with steam being pumped around them for heat. The center of the mash will get too cool if the mash is not stirred.

http://byo.com/mrwizard/1127.html

http://www.bayareamashers.org/maindocs/BatchSparging.htm

http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/files/nbsparge.html

Moondog- I really need to update my site. They were both really good beers. I was actually suprised at how good the extract beer turned out. The extract beer was darker, sweeter and had more of an even flavor. It seemed to have more emphisis on the pale ale where as the AG had more of the rye flavor profile. Everyone who tried it definatly noticed a difference in flavor and color. Most preffered the AG to the extract overall. Most people sugested adding about twice as much rye.

[BucksBrew]

Calling all Sparge Experts:

I am going to attempt an All Grain this weekend.

My concern is proper procedure.

I am going to mash in a 10 gallon Gott/Rubbermaid cooler. I bought a 10 over a 5 so in case I like it I can do larger batches in the same amount of time. Also the diameter of a 5 gal. vs. a 10 gallon were minimal as compared to a rectangle cooler. Plus it creates a deeper grain bed.

I plan on heating the cooler first with some hot water.

Then mix in 1.1 to 1.5 qts. water to 1lb grain until complete. The water temp will be 168 to attain a 152 degree mash temp. I'm making a Sierra Nevada Pale ale. My only question is intial quantity of water as compared to second amount.

I will have a homemade copper manifold as described by Palmer. It came out very nice. I will have to siphon up and over the side to collect the wort. I will have a temporary vertical pipe that sits above the grain bed. I will recirculate until clear like apple cidar. Then I will collect all wort from cooler.

I will add 2nd batch of hot water at 170 degrees, stir gently, level bed out and cover for 15 minutes. Should I adjust the PH down with some Lactic Acid? Should I add gyspsum to 1st batch of water?

Again drain off after I recirculate and that is it right?

My concerns are water quantity and what about doing a protein rest to stop the enzyme activity in the first batch of wort? Should I add some 170 degree water to the cooler before I drain the 1st batch of wort? I assume the second batch at 170 is a continuation of the same process.

Also how do you guys test the SG? If it is low do I boil longer in the pot? If it's on target I'm good. How do you know if you have 80%?

Sorry this is long. But this is really important stuff!;)

[chris1kanobi]

Your process sounds about right. You want to recirculate and dump the wort from the mash before adding any more sparge water. I usually mash with 2.5 gallons and then sparge with 2 2.5 gallon batch sparges, collecting 6.5 gallons of liquid. I also let the sparge water sit for about 10 min, but 15 is fine too. A protein rest is not needed. To measure OG you would need to take a sample, let it cool and compare it to your calculations (Promash has these calculations). I wouldn't even worry about it on your first batch. Just mash for an hour at 150-155, sparge and collect the wort. Getting the process down is more important than the details. Later on, you can worry about gravity readings and effency. (That is just my opinion, I like to keep it simple, untill I have a need to tweak the set-up). You are on the right track!!


http://www.freewebs.com/homebrew/process.htm

The drawing twards the bottom.:D

[BucksBrew]

[QUOTE][i] I usually mash with 2.5 gallons and then sparge with 2 2.5 gallon batch sparges, collecting 6.5 gallons of liquid.
QUOTE]

So you rinse the grains 3 times?

I thought I read that you should split the batch in two with regard to the water.

1.5qts/1lb. grains less absorptution of about 10%. Then add the 2nd amout of water to the cooler, rest, drain off.

[chris1kanobi]

I usually sparge 2 times. 2.5 to mash, 2.5 1st sparge, 2.5 second sparge= 7.5 gallons - water retained in grain= 6-6.5 gallons of pre-boil wort. If I am making a big beer, 10 gallon batch or come up a little short, I will do 3 sparges. Your formula is a good rule of thumb, because you don't want a dry sparge or a super saturated one either. Just remember to hit your temps, recirculate the wort to set the mash before running off and relax don't worry have a homebrew. :D

[BucksBrew]

I'm not as nervous as I was for my first Extract Kit. I actually feel pretty confident about this whole procedure.

I just don't want to forget the obvious! haha

Thanks for the help.

[Fast_Eddy]

Hey BucksBrew - at a different users request I made up an 18 step AG quickie guide. I PM'ed it to you.

[BucksBrew]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
Hey BucksBrew - at a different users request I made up an 18 step AG quickie guide. I PM'ed it to you.

Thanks! I saw that on another thread and was going to have you send it to me as well, but I got busy at work and forgot!

Thanks again!

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by BucksBrew
Thanks! I saw that on another thread and was going to have you send it to me as well, but I got busy at work and forgot!

Thanks again!

Actually it's too long for a PM. PM me your email address.

[bierboy]

Why don't ya post it for all to see and make it a sticky?

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by bierboy
Why don't ya post it for all to see and make it a sticky?

I'll clean it up and make it more general and post it.

[bierboy]

Thanks. It would probably be a good thing for newbies.

[BucksBrew]

It seems to me that you can Batch Sparge a couple of different ways.

1. Slowly drain the wort into a kettle as you add water on top to keep liquid at least 1'' above grain bed. Collect until you have your 6.5 gallons. This could take 40-60 minutes.

2. Quickly drain your wort. Collect all of it all at once without adding sparge water until the wort stops flowing. Obviously stir, wait 10 minutes, recirculate then collect. Repeat if necessary to get your 6.5 gallons or stop and add water prior to pitching. This way I hear takes less time.

So which is it?

I did #1 this past weekend. I might try the #2 way next time.

[chris1kanobi]

#1 is more like fly sparging. Batch sparging is when you add the sparge water in batches (a few gallons at a time). :D

[Fast_Eddy]

I do a combination between 1 and 2. I drain to about .5"-1" above grain bed. Stir the grain. Add 1-2 gallons of sparge. Let it settle. Recirculate. Repeat.

[DreamWeaver]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
Hey BucksBrew - at a different users request I made up an 18 step AG quickie guide. I PM'ed it to you.

Hey Fast Eddy, Did ya ever post the 18 Step AG Quicky List anywhere?
I'm getting the equipment together and edyacatin myself so I can try AG come warmer weather. I need all of the help I can get... I don't wanna get my grainy noodles stuck in er false bottom while I'm trying to masher on the grain bed. Know what I mean? Don't wanna haff ta use the smack pack either! :D Ain't this stuff fun?

-DRWeaver-