Using first runnings as sparge water

[rlkbaylor]

I batch sparge, is there any reason not to use the wort from the first draining as my sparge water?

I'm brewing a Double Bock & with the large grain bill (20lbs for 6GAL batch) I'm using alot of water for the mash. I dont want to waste good wort because I'm only doing a 6G batch. Can I drain all the liquid from the mash, I estimate I'll get about 5 to 5.5G of water. Combine with another 1.5G and use that 7G as my sparge water?

Anyone ever done this? Results

[darylM]

If you boil it down, you will not be wasting any good wort. As an added bonus, you will produce melenonins that are good for a bock.

In terms of reusing the first runnings for sparge, your sparge will take longer because of the concentration of sugars in the wort. Since you are batch sparging, you could just use enough water to make your volume. The grain won't suck up anymore water because its already wet.

[rlkbaylor]

Thanks, my problem is that my kettle only holds a touch over 7G.

[darylM]

That makes it easy, just use enough sparge water to fill your kettle and thats it.

[rlkbaylor]

So it wouldnt be a waste of sugars to sparge with 1.5-2G of water in a 20lb grain bill? Would I still get most of the sugars out with that little amount of water? Should I let the sparge water sit for longer than usual to be sure, maybe 30min instead of 10?

[markaberrant]

Make another beer with the second runnings.

[rlkbaylor]

will there be enough sugars for a second 5G batch?

[markaberrant]

will there be enough sugars for a second 5G batch?

Depending on your efficiency and whatnot, with 20 lbs of grain, and collecting 7 gallons of wort for the first runnings batch, I'd ballpark the second batch around 1.040. It's certainly worth trying at least once. I do it whenever I make a beer over 1.075.

[rlkbaylor]

what would you think of supplementing the 2nd batch with a little extract? Any thoughts as to what type of beer? Just a standard bock?

[rlkbaylor]

Could I make the second runnings into an Amber Ale with the addition of extract?

[darylM]

what is your grain bill?

[Cosmic Charlie]

Is this similar to the "Reiterated Mashing" technique a la the Dec, 2007 issue of BYO?

[rlkbaylor]

Here's the Grain Bill

9lbs Munich 9SRM
7lbs Pilsner 2SRM
3lbs Crystal 20SRM
2lbs Caramunich 56SRM
2lbs Vienna 3.5SRM

[markaberrant]

That's a crapload of crystal for a doppelbock! I'd ditch the crystal and caramunich, and replace it with more munich. Consider you aren't doing a long boil, I suppose you could keep the caramunich, but that crystal 20 is going to do nothing but guarantee underattenuation and an overly sweet beer.

[markaberrant]

Could I make the second runnings into an Amber Ale with the addition of extract?

Absolutely.

[rlkbaylor]

too late for the grain bill, its already been bought & crushed. I plan on doing a 90 min boil. Should I shorten it to 60?

[darylM]

in a word, no. The longer boiling time will build melenonins and that is good for a bock. May not be bad for an amber too.

[darylM]

Could I make the second runnings into an Amber Ale with the addition of extract?

This reminds me of what british brewers would do. The first runnings becomes a stronger beer like a porter or a stout and the second runnings becomes a mild. Two different beers, one grain bill.

edit:
come to think of it, that grain bill could be used to make a mild. Added bonus, no need for extract. What hops do you have access to?

[rlkbaylor]

That's good to know that I can deviate styles with the same grain bill.

Can someone, for a casual homebrewer, explain why crystal malt underattenuates. I didnt know that & now I'm concerned.

Also, should I mash in at 150 for 1 HR after I sparge the first batch? Or do I just need to do another batch sparge.

[markaberrant]

too late for the grain bill, its already been bought & crushed. I plan on doing a 90 min boil. Should I shorten it to 60?

Unless the grain is all mixed together, you could leave the crystal 20 out of the doppelbock (you'd still be mashing 20lb, which is a good sized doppel), and then add it to your mash tun when sparging for the amber.

Definitely do a 90 minute boil. I thought you were only doing 60. My bad.

[rlkbaylor]

Thanks, all ready mixed together.

[markaberrant]

Also, should I mash in at 150 for 1 HR after I sparge the first batch? Or do I just need to do another batch sparge.

Just keep sparging.

[markaberrant]

Can someone, for a casual homebrewer, explain why crystal malt underattenuates. I didnt know that & now I'm concerned.


Because during the malting process of crystal malt, the sugars are "crystalized" which makes them mostly unfermentable, thus adding sweetness and body.

[Mill Rat]

Keep in mind that most German beers have a very simple grain bill, and not very heavy on non-fermentable malts. You can control the body of the beer just as effectively with your mash temperatures. I have made several award-winning pilsners with the following grain bill: 10 lb pilsner malt. Bocks do need plenty of Munich or Vienna, but these are well fermentable.

[markaberrant]

My approach to recipe formulation is to use premium base malts, use as little crystal malt as possible, and that simpler is better. Seems to be working pretty good for me.

[beerking]

Years ago, the brewmaster at Chesbay Brewing (Chaz remembers that one...anyone else?), who is a German and holds a master in brewing science from Ulm, told me he would not use any malts darker than light crystal. He asserted that any other color or character you want in a beer can be obtain through the actual brewing process.

[JayShaw91]

You could also cut back on your batch size and just do a no-sparge. *shrug*

[steveh]

Just keep sparging.

Careful that you don't over-sparge and wash tannins from the hulls into the wort. Voice of experience.

S.

[Mill Rat]

I keep my refractometer at hand, and stop when the reading drops below 3 Brix. Without a refractometer, a simple taste test will suffice. If you can't taste sweetness in the runoff anymore, it's time to stop.