Guiness Clones

[paul84043]

What do you add to your guiness type clones in the secondary to get that strong flavor? I'm considering adding some coffee, would I be changing it too much? what about dry hopping? Does anyone dry hop that type of beer to offset other added ingredients?
I started with AHSs guiness clone, but they never seem to have quite the kick of the oiginals...

[Beerconnoisseur]

Probably Black Patent and/or Black Roasted Barley as part of the grain bill. Just don't use too much...

EDIT: MY bad... these would be added during the boil/mash, not to the secondary. Sorry 'bout that. Here (http://www.brewbyyou.net/recipes/GuinessClone.htm) and here (http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/Vineyard/3270/guinnessclone.html) are some recipes for clones.

[paul84043]

Well, I've already made the kit. I'm sure that it contained the proper grains. I sampled it when I transferred it and it really comes close to Guiness, it's going to be great no matter what... I was just hoping that someone would know something to add to give it that little extra kick that a good Guiness has.

Thanks for the reply...

[mmmBeer...]

I think I remember reading somewhere that Guinness uses a certain amount of “spoiled” pasteurized Guinness to give it that final kick, and that this is the reason that it can’t be replicated. However, this could be an urban legend.

My understanding is that it works like sourdough bread…they keep adding a little bit of the original.

[mortong]

According to M. Jackson, here's some stats for Guinness imported to the US:

Draft:
Pale Malt (65%)
Flaked Barley (25%)
Roasted Barley (10%)
(No other sugars or grains added)

45 IBU
One hop addition using several hop varieties, but primarily Goldings (probably hopped close to the beginning of the boil).
This would take about 2oz. of Goldings at the beginning of the boil according to promash.

OG: 1039 (yes really)
FG: ~1008
4.2% ABV


Bottled Guinness is made with more than just malt - they use some corn sugar to raise the ABV:
OG: ?
6.0% ABV
50+ IBU


For what mmmBeer said - Foreign Extra Stout is produced for tropical countries and is a blend of beers (including one aged in 100-year-old wooden vats), and he says has a "lactic, winy and horse-blanket (Brettanomyces)" taste.

Hope this helps.

[paul84043]

Thanks for the replies, it's very interesting.
Mine had on O.G. of 1.042.
It did use Kent goldings as the bittering hops, bit as I recall it was not more than an ounce.
There was also a 15 minute addition of another kind.

I have heard the stories about guiness continuing it's secret by adding old guiness to it, maybe there's more than a grain of truth to it?

The underlying flavor is very difficult to pin down, but I can detect a lactic undertone.

My clone is going to be close enough for me to be happy with it. I added a single scoop of coffee to the secondary to give it just a touch of "something" to set it apart. I like the coffee flavors in a stout. I think it's going to turn out great.

I was surprised to find that my gravity was only at 1.024, a bit higher than I usually see at this point. Maybe there are more "difficult" fermentables in this one...
I'll give it another week or so, then check again. I am hoping that this will be done fairly quick.

[Tweek]

Hard water. When I make my guiness clone I use hard water. It used to be easy cause my tap water was hard, now if I were to do it I would add a lot of minerals. Seems to make a big diference.

[paul84043]

Update.

My Guiness clone has been in the secondary for 2 weeks now, I sampled it the other night and it's going to be ecxellent. Not as close to "original" as I'd like, but still very good. It could be much more bitter than it ended up.
I put a single scoop od coffee into the secondary and it has about as much cofee flavor as I would ever want to add to any beer.
As it is I would now call it a Guiness coffee stout, fortunately, we like coffee so I imagine that this beer is not long for this world...

If I were to do another, I think I'd put a half scoop in it instead.

I'll also have to keep hard water in mind, I hadn't even considered that until Tweek mentioned it. My water is very soft right out of the tap.

I'm going to bottle tonight, probably do half the Guiness in a Party Pig and the other half in Grolsch bottles.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by paul84043
...

I'll also have to keep hard water in mind, I hadn't even considered that until Tweek mentioned it. My water is very soft right out of the tap.

...

This won't make a big impact since you're an extract brewer. Soft water(typically low pH) and dark grains usually result in a too low mash pH because the dark grains naturally lower the pH of the mash - something along the lines of the phosphates in the dark grains combine with the CO3 part of HCO3 and the result is the release of H+. Too low mash pH can result in decreased extraction from the mash as a result of alpha and beta amylase being inhibited. But since you're using extract then you're not worried about this.

[paul84043]

Is that why the hardness of the water affects the flavor profile of the beer?

That's another reason I have avoided going more into partial and all grain....just another set of things to clog up my brain with....

[Beerconnoisseur]

Originally posted by paul84043
The underlying flavor is very difficult to pin down, but I can detect a lactic undertone.

Many homebrew suppliers stock an acid malt. Click here (http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_list.asp?cat_id=113&SCID=1020573134ZZ289843ZZY), then scroll down to 'acid malt'. It might be the missing component that you need for that elusive flavor!

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by paul84043
Is that why the hardness of the water affects the flavor profile of the beer?

That's another reason I have avoided going more into partial and all grain....just another set of things to clog up my brain with....

The short answer is yes. the mineral profile of the water can affect the flavor profile. See

http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-1.html

Water hardness(or lack thereof) has a predicatable effect on mash pH relative to what grains are used. So if you're really interested in your brew water there are two things to consider:

1) What minerals are in the water and how will that affect the taste of my finished beer.
2) All grainers - what effect will #1 have on my mash pH. What should I do if correction is needed either up or down.

If you read the page linked above pay attention that the first sentence in the "Water pH" section is very important.

[OldHooky]

How many scoops in a pound?