Interesting take on underage drinking

[chazwicke]

This from intrepid beer reporter Gregg Wiggins on DC-Beer:



Some friends of Wausau Wis. high school student Dustin Zebro got
suspended from playing sports because of photographs showing them
drinking from red plastic cups. Nobody had any evidence as to what was
IN the cups, but they got suspended. Zebro thought the school
overreacted and wanted to make that point publicly.

So Zebro bought a quarter-barrel keg of root beer, got a bunch of red
plastic cups, and invited his friends over on a Saturday night. The
police responded, nearly 90 kids got breathalized, locked rooms of the
house were searched.

Of course, nobody had any alcohol in their system. The local police
chief called it "a tremendous waste of time and manpower."

Dustin Zebro, when you're old enough I want to buy you a Bavik.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23851011/?GT1=43001

Gregg Wiggins

[gestyr]

Innocent until proven guilty?

[wortchillergoal]

I wonder how much that police force paid the spin doctor? I mean testing 90 kids just just in case is a joke in this instance. I can see, though do not agree with, checking the locked rooms. They should have seen that after a few kids were tested that they were having their chains yanked.

[vadavid]

My guess is they realized they were being made to look like fools early on. That probably caused them to search harder. They needed to find something to save face. Pity the kid with Tylenol in his pocket, he probably would have spent the night in the lockup while they tested the capsule contents.

[darylM]

Innocent until proven guilty?
I have noticed that "special treatment" is given to certain types of crimes. One is drugs and the other is computer crime.

[gestyr]

I have noticed that "special treatment" is given to certain types of crimes. One is drugs and the other is computer crime.

Drugs are a millstone around our necks. Too much money is spent on prosecution and jail time. Drugs should be made a non-criminal offense and the focus should be on rehabilitation rather than prison.

[chazwicke]

Ever notice who runs many of our prisons? CORPORATIONS. Private CORPORATIONS. Remember when the US was involved in the Iran Contra affair and it appeared that the CIA was involved in cocaine trafficking? And where does most of the heroin come from? And where is a major place our government is involved in right now? Afghanistan? Isn't that where poppies are grown? Who might benefit from the drug trade in the end? Prisons that are run by CORPORATIONS that are paid to take care of our prisoners with tax dollars and within those prisons the prisoners are used as slave labor to manufacture products for the CORPORATIONS. And the prisons are fed more and more drug criminals who are using drugs facilitated into the market by our government which is run behind the scenes by CORPORATIONS....Uh oh there are those black helicopters again...


I’m kidding but a friend of mine put forth this very proposition to me today in a discussion. Apparently he watched some sort of movie or documentary over the weekend that pushes that conspiracy theory.

[MrNate]

Drugs are a millstone around our necks. Too much money is spent on prosecution and jail time. Drugs should be made a non-criminal offense and the focus should be on rehabilitation rather than prison.


I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm tired - damn tired - of the war on drugs. I don't care if my neighbor smokes crack. I don't care if my mechanic is a pot head. I don't care if my doctor chases the dragon. I don't care if my pharmacist pops pills, hell I don't care if the governor is snorting lines of coke off a hooker's rack.

What I don't like is throwing money away. I don't like writing a check every damn year so that we can keep Johnny Badapple locked up on his posession with intent charge. And support his wife and kid with welfare because he's not providing for them anymore. And foot his rehab bill when he gets out. And keep the extra cops on salary who wouldn't have a reason to be on the force if we immediately reduced crime by 40%. Not to mention the additional training, equipment, dogs, etc.

The same goes for the drinking age nonsense. Drinking age should be 18 and enforced as a secondary offense (in other words, only if you do something stupid while drinking) . If you have nothing better to do than hassle some kids who are suspiciously drinking out of red plastic cups, you have too many officers on the force.

I love tax season.

[DecoJuicer]

I love tax season.

I have said for many years that if you want real change in government, then you should move election day to April 15, and let people vote at the post office.

I bet that you would see sweeping changes in the ways that the politicians spend OUR money.

As far as the kids being searched because of the red plastic cups, I would pitch a serious bitch if I were their parents. I would also have that school official thrown out on his ass at the next school board meeting. And if the current board didn't do it, then my happy ass would be running for a position during the next election(something that I may do anyway)

When I was about 20, some friends and I were driving around and I got pulled over by an old time cop for a minor traffic offense. He walked up to the car and saw a bunch of minors driving around and deduced that we were up to NO GOOD. In fact, we weren't yet, but we were about to be...the trunk was filled with booze that I had bought with a fake ID. This officer decided that he wanted to take a look in the trunk and used the age old trick of asking, "You don't mind if I look in the trunk, do you??" Well, I politely said, "Yes officer, I very much do. Unless of course, you have a warrant. I haven't done anything that would give you probable cause to search my vehicle." He smiled, gave me a wink and a ticket, and sent me on my way.

The point of that story is that we voluntarily give away most of our rights. If those kids had know better, they would have said, "No officer, you can't come in. You have no probable cause to enter this residence." As long as there aren't any secondary infractions, the police couldn't come in. Since they were all minors, and almost certainly weren't the able to make decisions regarding the property, the parents might have a valid complaint.

[gestyr]

I think the teens handled it correctly. Letting the cops make fools of themselves is always entertaining.

[DecoJuicer]

For some of them, it doesn't take much. And that's coming from somebody who has been in law enforcement for the past 16 years.

I think a lot of the problems with todays law enforcement come from the current hiring practices.

15-20 years ago, they were hiring people with real world experience. Military, sales, etc. People that became police officers generally had some experience dealing with people BEFORE the became police officers. Now, police departments are only interested in people with college degrees, and they usually want them right out of college. This leads to a lot of problems.

You have kids that have never had any practical experience in ANY job, who have spent 4 years going to college on mommy and daddy's dime. They get into the job and think that what they saw on NYPD Blue is the way that it is supposed to be. Our department went through a phase like that. We hired a bunch of officers between the ages of 19-23. They are a disaster. They get more complaints than any 5 other officers, they will not listen to advice from the "old guys", but they can write the hell out of a ticket and make arrests based on traffic warrants all night long.

In short, they generate revenue and they pad stats. So when the administrators ask for more money, they can point to those numbers and say, "see, we're making progress". Then they spend the money by hiring more of these kids, or by instituting programs like DARE and SWAT. Programs that look really good on the TV, but are generally just a waste of time and resources.

Talk about having a complex. I am part of a system that I can't stand. Thank goodness for Unions, or I probably would have been fired for insubordination years ago. It also helps that I am really good at my job and get lots of attaboys from the citizens. That alone gives me a bit of latitude to tell my bosses that the only thing wrong with their offices is that the locks are on the wrong side of the doors.

[beerking]

Actually, there was an initial offense which could be argued to provide probable cause.
Seems the kids had parked such that they were blocking the street, and the neighbors called the cops. They arrived to find a typical loud teenage party, sans alcohol. Interestingly enough, the cops used a bullhorn to call out the kids from the house, after which they began the Breathalyzer tests.
That said, I do agree there may have been no cause to give the tests or conduct the search, depending on how the kids acted.

As far as the "war on drugs," I may not care, directly, if my neighbor smokes crack, but I very much DO care if he is sending money to support terrorists worldwide, which buying drugs does.

[D0nc0smic]

Beerking, thats why all my drugs are produced purely by local hippies with no organized crime or terrorist connections

[BrewDog]

As far as the "war on drugs," I may not care, directly, if my neighbor smokes crack, but I very much DO care if he is sending money to support terrorists worldwide, which buying drugs does.

To which I add, I also care if he's breaking into my house/car/etc. to support his habit.

[D0nc0smic]

once again that is an additional crime for which he should be punished, it just the act of using drugs that should not be punished by our government

[dparsons]

The current stand doesn't work and this is a known factor. So why do we keep doing it? What do those who keep up the "war on drugs and underage drinking" have to gain? I can only think of to possible answers:

1. You gain some votes and don't loose any. A no-brainer policy.

2. You make more profit off the drugs.

[MrNate]

As far as the "war on drugs," I may not care, directly, if my neighbor smokes crack, but I very much DO care if he is sending money to support terrorists worldwide, which buying drugs does.

The question, though, is whether or not that would remain the case once legitimate production and trade channels were opened and established.

[beerking]

The question, though, is whether or not that would remain the case once legitimate production and trade channels were opened and established.

Good point, Nate. Unfortunately, I think it would remain the case. We may legalize it (I doubt), but it would still be illegal in source countries. As it stands, illegal drugs are too much of an attraction to those looking to make fast big bucks, which leads to corruption, slave labor, and untold other nastiness.

[Mill Rat]

Once again, the experience a couple generations ago with alcohol prohibition is instructive. Even today, there remains a negligible trade in bootleg (i.e. untaxed) liquor. But by and large, the cost that taxes add to alcoholic beverages is a price most people readily pay for the convenience and consistency of legit products, not to mention the improved safety of not having to make a black-market transaction. If other mind-altering substances were legalized, the growing and processing of such crops would also become de facto legalized at least in this country, and the black market for such commodities would likewise fade, due mainly to the inconvenience, product variability and simple dangers inherent in black-market transactions.

[MrNate]

Good point, Nate. Unfortunately, I think it would remain the case. We may legalize it (I doubt), but it would still be illegal in source countries. As it stands, illegal drugs are too much of an attraction to those looking to make fast big bucks, which leads to corruption, slave labor, and untold other nastiness.


See, I'm not sure about that. Coca is legal down south, it's the production of cocaine that isn't. I don't know to what extent the farmers are tied to the cartels and through the cartels the terrorist financiers, but I was under the impression that they operated fairly autonomously. And if they are hoplessly bound, I'd wager coca would grow well enough in the panhandle. And hell, poppies grow just about anywhere.

Believe me, the day drugs get legalized you'd better believe the economy of central NJ would take a sudden and dramatic upswing. You think Pfizer and J&J are going to sit idly by and let central America grab all that cash? If you think the Viagra ads are bad, just wait.

[beerking]

If you think the Viagra ads are bad, just wait.
Now THAT'S funny!!!!
ROFLMAO!!!!
:D

[Insidious Rex]

I read about this in the Post (the original incident in this thread) and what I found amazing was that this kid pulled this off without one defector or one leak. I mean 90 kids going to this extreme? What organization skills! How did he keep one kid from showing up actually drunk or high from somewhere else? How did he keep the school admins from hearing about it second hand through student snitches or parents that overheard kids conversations etc. Amazing? We need to hire this kid to set up and capture Osama bin Laden clearly.

[Vienna Lager]

Have to give the kids a lot or credit for organizing such a demonstration to prove a point. The D.C. Everest school officials overreacted by basing their decision to disicipline the students on photos. What other evidence did they have which lead them to belive the kids were drinking? Looks like the school officials sure stuck their foot in the old cow pie this time.

That happened in my home town and just about 30 miles up the road from where I know live and can remember when a keg party rarely got the attention of 'John Law' especially when it was in the country or on the outskirts of down. 'Sigh' my how times have changed.

[Mill Rat]

I ... can remember when a keg party rarely got the attention of 'John Law' probably because John Law's younger relatives were at those keg parties and he didn't want to piss off his family.

[animal]

Ever notice who runs many of our prisons? CORPORATIONS. Private CORPORATIONS. Remember when the US was involved in the Iran Contra affair and it appeared that the CIA was involved in cocaine trafficking? And where does most of the heroin come from? And where is a major place our government is involved in right now? Afghanistan? Isn't that where poppies are grown? Who might benefit from the drug trade in the end? Prisons that are run by CORPORATIONS that are paid to take care of our prisoners with tax dollars and within those prisons the prisoners are used as slave labor to manufacture products for the CORPORATIONS. And the prisons are fed more and more drug criminals who are using drugs facilitated into the market by our government which is run behind the scenes by CORPORATIONS....Uh oh there are those black helicopters again...


I?m kidding but a friend of mine put forth this very proposition to me today in a discussion. Apparently he watched some sort of movie or documentary over the weekend that pushes that conspiracy theory.

Ever hear this song?

Prison Song by System Of A Down

Theyre trying to build a prison
Theyre trying to build a prison
Following the rights movement
You clamped on with your iron fists
Drugs became conveniently
Available for all the kids
Following the rights movement
You clamped on with your iron fists
Drugs became conveniently
Available for all the kids
I buy my crack, I smack my bitch
Right here in hollywood
(nearly 2 million americans are
Incarcerated in the prison system
Prison system of the us)
Theyre trying to build a prison
Theyre trying to build a prison
Theyre trying to build a prison
(for you and me to live in)
Another prison system
Another prison system
Another prison system
(for you and me to live in)
Minor drug offenders fill your prisons
You dont even flinch
All our taxes paying for your wars
Against the new non-rich
Minor drug offenders fill your prisons
You dont even flinch
All our taxes paying for your wars
Against the new non-rich
I buy my crack, I smack my bitch
Right here in hollywood
The percentage of americans in the prison system
Prison system, has doubled since 1985
Theyre trying to build a prison
Theyre trying to build a prison
Theyre trying to build a prison
(for you and me to live in)
Another prison system
Another prison system
Another prison system
For you and i, for you and i, for you and i.
Theyre trying to build a prison
Theyre trying to build a prison
Theyre trying to build a prison
For you and me
Oh baby, you and me.
All research and successful drug policy show
That treatment should be increased
And law enforcement decreased
While abolishing mandatory minimun sentences
All research and successful drug policy show
That treatment should be increased
And law enforcement decreased
While abolishing mandatory minimun sentences
Utilising drugs to pay for secret wars around the world
Drugs are now your global policy now you police the globe
I buy my crack, I smack my bitch
Right here in hollywood
Drug money is used to rig elections
And train brutal corporate sponsored dictators
Around the world
Theyre trying to build a prison
Theyre trying to build a prison
Theyre trying to build a prison
(for you and me to live in)
Another prison system
Another prison system
Another prison system
(for you and me to live in)
For you and i, for you and i, for you and i
For you and i
Theyre trying to build a prison
Theyre trying to build a prison
Theyre trying to build a prison
For you and me
Oh baby, you and me
________
Weed vaporizer (http://weedvaporizer.info/)

[Beaver-Brew]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfQCE2917NE

[nelstrodomus]

As far as the "war on drugs," I may not care, directly, if my neighbor smokes crack, but I very much DO care if he is sending money to support terrorists worldwide, which buying drugs does.


I agree with you on everything you've said with the exception of people buying heroin and supporting terrorism. Obviously there's a huge gap between heroin production, its use, and people funding others to commit vicious atrocities. The poppy farmers have no choice other than starvation but to grow their poppies.
If we're going to use the same line of logic, then we're all just as guilty when ever we fill up our gas tanks or even use synthetic pharmaceuticals or plastics in our everyday life because all of those products are made from oil, and there is no denying that oil rich countries have ties to terrorism...

[edited for clarification]

[hasher on hops]

Based on the responses that I have seen to this topic, I think I've found a good test for who gets to vote. Put out some micros and bud/miller/coors/pabst and anyone who picks the micro gets to vote :)

I applaud the kids, but they should know that they don't have to take a breathalizer test. Even if the cops have probable cause, one has the right against self incrimination.

Drug prohibition causes more problems than drugs. The cops will fight any change because of the money they take in from forfeiture laws.

My philosophy is leave me alone and I will do the same.

[dparsons]

Drug prohibition causes more problems than drugs.

Yes, but it keeps the prices high.