George Bush At The Pub

[jlttb]

This CNN story (http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/11/21/britain.bush/index.html) shows President Bush and Tony Blair working the bar at the Dun Cow pub in Sedgefield, England. I love the photo.

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/europe/11/21/britain.bush/story.beer.ap.jpg

No actual beer was harmed in the making of the picture, though: "The president -- a non-drinker for 15 years -- drank non-alcoholic lager while the prime minister and the two women (Mrs. Blair and Mrs. Bush) washed their meal down with soft drinks."
I don't mean to get political, but if it drives terrorists nuts to see alcohol, that's fine with me.

[studentofbeer]

that's unfortunate. at least tony coulda put down a pint of beer. Im sure he was just trying to be polite and not look like he was drinking on the job, or thinking it might send Bush into an frenzy. i forgot our president doesn't drink. it kinda makes me wonder.

[fretlessman71]

Say what you will about Dubya... if he has indeed given up alcohol for 15 years, it is a feat to be applauded. (I know *I* wouldn't want to do it.... :p )

[Richard English]

Trust GWB to try to do things the wrong way round. If we were to pull the handle of the beer engine towards him - as it looks like he's trying to do - he would simply strain his wrist!

Incidentally, the beers served at that pub were Theakstons (on the pump he's holding) and Black Sheep (on the adjacent pump).

I never trust a man who won't drink English Real Ale!

[stronk]

Looks almost like Adnams to me (and there are 4 pumps). Went to the White Horse today for the first time. They have the most amazing display of rare beers I have ever seen in a glass cabinet aroun the left hand side of the bar (bearing in mind that I haven't exactly seen the world yet).

[Herb Ninja]

Looks almost like Adnams to me (and there are 4 pumps). Went to the White Horse today for the first time. They have the most amazing display of rare beers I have ever seen in a glass cabinet aroun the left hand side of the bar (bearing in mind that I haven't exactly seen the world yet).

I dunno about Adnams I think i'm siding with Richard on this one.
Anyway, The White Horse is nice they have a non-smoking section and decent beer selection. I went there a second time before I left England and it seemed kinda pricey for the beer I wanted, three and a half pounds for a pint of leifmans(sp?) kreik. Call me cheap but I skiped it.

[Richard English]

Two points.

The beers at the Dun Cow are as I describe them - I have seen the original, full-size picture in The Times. I can't recall what the third and fourth pumps carried - it might have been Adnams but I doubt it. Most northern pubs serve northern beers - of which Theakstons and Black Sheep are two examples.

I may have missed this, but I don't know which White Horse we are speaking of - I assume it's one in or near London. I would not consider that £3.50 is expensive for an Imperial pint of a strong imported beer in London. Frankly I wouldn't myself drink such a drink in an English pub - I would stick to a good cask-conditioned ale at probably £2.50 or less.

That we, in England, have a huge choice of drinks available to us from all over the world is a great advantage to the promiscuous drinker; it does not necessarily mean, though, that all such drinks will be cheap.

[stronk]

It annoys me, though, that the price of British beer is based on its alcohol content, rather than its quality.

A nice surprise (flavour-to-expense) is Old Peculier. A 500ml bottle will cost you £1.25 in a supermarket. As beers on tap tend to be about the same price for a pint as for a 500ml bottle, I'd love to find a local pub serving Theakston's.

The White Horse on Parson's Green is the one I meant.

[Richard English]

In fact, pricing is a very complex thing and any marketeer will tell you that suppliers spend a great deal of time on getting pricing right.

The COST of production of beer in the UK is affected by the alcoholic content since the taxation is based on this. Thus a brewer's final cost of production will be higher by the difference in the amount of the tax.

However the PRICE that the brewer charges the distributor, and the distributor charges the reseller, and the reseller charges the consumer is affected by all sorts of things - of which the cost is but a small part. Cost of supply is just one of the overheads that those in the supply chain have to bear and it has very little to do with the eventual PRICE that is charged to the consumer.

Far and away the most important factor in pricing (of anything, not just drink) is the consumer's expectation. Thus consumers in a pub are prepared to pay around £2.00 a pint for perfectly ordinary water that they could get from their taps for less than a thousandth of that price. They are prepared to pay around 50 pence for a shot of mixer that costs maybe half a penny to supply. Yet they complain about the price of a pint of good beer at, say £2.50, even though that pint will have cost the brewer maybe 50 pence and the publican possibly over a pound.

Maybe the most ludicrous example of price persuasion in alcoholic drinks is that of A-B Budweiser which, in spite of its poor quality and relatively low cost of production, is sold here as a premium product. UK drinkers who like the muck are prepared to pay about £3.50 a pint for it - because that is their perception of its worth. Guess where extra profit the margin goes!

Now you know why publicans are so happy when lads come in and buy a pint of Budweiser for themselves and a glass of fizzy water for their girlfriends. Now you know why so few pubs go out to woo Real Ale drinkers. Get the lads in to watch big-screen football and buy lager for themselves and mixer drinks for their girlfriends, and watch the money roll in!

Excuse me, I feel a speech coming on!

[Herb Ninja]

I would not consider that £3.50 is expensive for an Imperial pint of a strong imported beer in London.

It wasn't strong beer, 5%abv, although it was imported from Belgium. I understand why you wouldn't consider such a beer in an English pub and I probably wouldn't have either but it was a lambic, generally my favorite type of beer. Not the best lambic, but one that ive never got on this island, although that still wasn't reason enough to convince me to pay £3.50. ;)

[Richard English]

Quote "...It wasn't strong beer, 5%abv..."

That's strongish for a draught beer. Most ordinary bitters here are around 3.5%, best bitters around 4%, Old Ales and the like maybe 4.5%. Strong draught beers may be of higher gravity (Fuller's ESB is 5.5%) but they are not most people's everyday drink.

Bottled beers tend to be a little stronger (ESB is around 6% in bottle) but by any standards a 5% imported beer would normally be considered to be fairly strong and expected to be fairly expensive.

[Herb Ninja]

Wow thats messed up they consider 5% strong, has anyone from your country been to belgium? ;) 13%, thats strong, 9%, ok thats still strong, 5% thats average in the states. I guess you right though about most bitters being lower then that. Adnams bitter is very low at 3.7% you'd see people drinking that and barely catching a buzz, its a good beer though. I actually prefer lower alcohol beers thats why I enjoyed England so much. Especially those dark milds, mmm, but ive already said that before. Not that I don't like a higher alcohol beer or barley wine every so often.

[Richard English]

This might well be true although I confess that I find it hard to believe that A-B Budweiser is 5% - in spite of what is says on the bottle.

However, as has been discussed previously, the quantities we drink in the UK are significantly larger than those usually consumed in the USA. Our cask-conditioned beers are designed to be drunk in quantity and most beer drinkers do not want to be legless after just a three or four pints.

For those that wish, it is quite possible to find stronger beers - both in bottle and in draught - and these will tend to be drunk in smaller measures.

I have been to Belgium many times and have tried many of their beers. Their draught beers, like ours, tend to be weaker than their bottled beers - and yes, I have tried some of their more extreme beers.

[Herb Ninja]

I was just kidding about the Belgium thing.

This might well be true although I confess that I find it hard to believe that A-B Budweiser is 5% - in spite of what is says on the bottle.

I wasn't using budweiser as the example, and I don't know for sure what the alcohol is in it but ive heard different percentages from 4.2% to 5%. I don't think they place the percentage on the bottle, you'll find that allot of U.S. beers don't. I guess I can't really say what the average beer % is in the U.S., it was just a guess and generalization. Full Sail Pale Ale, thats a good example of an American beer, at least in comparison to our A-B beers, and its 5%. This is all babble don't take me too seriously. :p Take Care, HN-

[Richard English]

Quote "... don't think they place the percentage on the bottle, you'll find that allot of U.S. beers don't..."

It's the law over here. All alcoholic drinks must show both the quantity in the bottle and the alcoholic strength.

The strength of draught beers must be shown somewhere in the pub and this is usually on the pump clip. All draught beers must be sold by the pint or exact fractions or multiples of a pint.

A-B Budweiser as sold here claims to be 5% - the same as the real Czech Budweiser.

[Herb Ninja]

It's the law over here. All alcoholic drinks must show both the quantity in the bottle and the alcoholic strength.

Yea I support that. I want to be able to partially judge what i'm buying by alcohol percentage. I liked how they had the percentage on all the draught beers, I didn't have too many bottles there. In the wenlock arms there was a sign up in the top left cornor with a chalk board listing all the cask ale names, alcohol percentage and price. It was helpful, partly because you didn't need to go up to the pump clip to see the alcohol percentage, and also so you didn't need to ask them how much each beer was going to cost, not that it mattered much, its not like they had unfair prices for any of the cask ales. I watched somebody come in there and order a carlsberg and it was practically insulting considering they had about 10 cask ales on tap. I guess some people just can't move past crappy beer.

[Richard English]

Quote "...I watched somebody come in there and order a carlsberg and it was practically insulting considering they had about 10 cask ales on tap. I guess some people just can't move past crappy beer..."

It's very difficult sometimes to hold your tongue! If you suggest that a chemical-fizz drinker might care to try something else then you are criticising his or her choice and thus judgement. And we none of us like to have our judgement questioned.

What I do sometimes do, if I see someone standing at the bar indecisively, is to volunteer the information that "such and such a beer is good today". In that way I am not suggesting that the other person is in the wrong, just that I have a particular preference. Many people (especially, but not exclusively Real Ale drinkers) will then decide to try my choice.

It behoves us all to fight the good fight for Real Ale otherwise we will all drown in a sea of chemical fizz!

[briandickens]

i have been making an effort lately to do the same with my friends. recently a friend and i went to a bar and she wanted a corona. i don't think the bar had it but regardless, i offerred her something else that she could throw a piece of fruit into - a hefe weiss. and she loved it!

[Herb Ninja]

Originally posted by Richard English

It's very difficult sometimes to hold your tongue! If you suggest that a chemical-fizz drinker might care to try something else then you are criticising his or her choice and thus judgement. And we none of us like to have our judgement questioned.


I held my tongue. Not to sound like an ass but its not my problem if they want to drink that piss. I do understand the dilema when the majority of the bar drinks "chemical-fizz" because then the selection of good beers you can drink is diminished or non-existent, so I understand guiding people towards real beer as long as i'm not pressuring them. Although, I wouldn't be saying "Ick thats nasty you don't know what good beer is." I'm sure if everybody in there had spoke their mind about that he would have got his feelings hurt and he doesn't deserve that. If somebody asked me what a good beer was, id tell them, other then that i'm trying to learn not to give advice unless asked. Peace, HN-

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Richard English
Quote "... don't think they place the percentage on the bottle, you'll find that allot of U.S. beers don't..."

It's the law over here. All alcoholic drinks must show both the quantity in the bottle and the alcoholic strength.

The strength of draught beers must be shown somewhere in the pub and this is usually on the pump clip. All draught beers must be sold by the pint or exact fractions or multiples of a pint.

A-B Budweiser as sold here claims to be 5% - the same as the real Czech Budweiser.


I too appreciate the alcohol percentage being posted. For a long time here in the states it was actually illeagal to have the alcohol posted on the bottle. The puritanicle thinkers assumed that we all would rush out and buy the highest content. That we were only imbibing to get plastered. Not in my case. In fact, I like Herb, prefer the dark milds. Or milds in general. For exactly the reason Richard has described. If I'm lucky enough to be in a pub then I am in it for a session. I want to enjoy many pints and be able to find my hotel. (At GBBF I drank halfs so I could taste more different beers) I think it should be the law here also that alcohol content must be posted on the bottle.

Now I have a question for Richard. Is it frowned upon to order a half pint in a pub. Or is it considered un-manly? I heard a barkeep giving a patron a good ribbing over ordering halfs.

[Minor_Deity]

Originally posted by Richard English
I confess that I find it hard to believe that A-B Budweiser is 5% - in spite of what is says on the bottle.


I find this hard to believe as well. Is A-B's export different? I am fairly certain that Bud was on the shelf the last time I was in a 3.2 beer store. Course that was many moons ago.

[skahtboi]

Originally posted by chazwicke
I too appreciate the alcohol percentage being posted. For a long time here in the states it was actually illeagal to have the alcohol posted on the bottle. The puritanicle thinkers assumed that we all would rush out and buy the highest content. That we were only imbibing to get plastered.



Then, on the other side of the coin, there are those of us who absolutely, under any condition, hate to be intoxicated. I enjoy beer because I enjoy beer, and under no circumstances do I want to feel the least bit groggy as a result of my beer enjoyment!

[chazwicke]

My point exactly. I rarely get drunk. my average home consumption is one or possibly two each evening. However, when in England, I will drink more precisely because the content is lower.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Minor_Deity
I find this hard to believe as well. Is A-B's export different? I am fairly certain that Bud was on the shelf the last time I was in a 3.2 beer store. Course that was many moons ago.

Most breweries are willing to produce a second product that meets the alcohol guidelines of 3.2% laws. For instance, in Colorado, you may only sell beer at "full strength" (or whatever you prefer to call it) if you have the proper liquor license, and these licenses aren't given out to grocery stores, gas stations, or conveinence stores. You have to go to a proper liquor store to get unadulterated beer.

I had heard once upon a time that most breweries that wanted to sell a <3.2% product would simply take their standard product and boil it down a bit; I have been assured since that that is not the case. It would, however, make sense; as I recall, the 3.2% product tasted bad even to ME back when that was all we could get....

[Minor_Deity]

@ fretlessman71

Gotcha, thanks for the info.

[Herb Ninja]

Now I have a question for Richard. Is it frowned upon to order a half pint in a pub. Or is it considered un-manly? I heard a barkeep giving a patron a good ribbing over ordering halfs.

I heard and noticed it was generally frowned upon and uncommon, although I found at the pub I was usually drinking at, since I was drinking about 6 half pints in a night, they seemed pretty accepting and would actually ready me a half pint glass whenever I was choosing what ale I wanted(as they got used to me.) I too wanted the half pints so I could try a variety and still walk to the hotel(well.... hostel here.) I found at some pubs it was a bad deal to drink half pints but this one was no penalty price wise. Ahh.... now I want to go back to London... *tears of joy*

[Richard English]

Quote "...Now I have a question for Richard. Is it frowned upon to order a half pint in a pub. Or is it considered un-manly? I heard a barkeep giving a patron a good ribbing over ordering halfs..."

It would be a very rude (and badly-trained) barman who was rude about a customer's choice of drink - whether it be its type or its quantity. Sometimes a barman will make a remark to a known customer that will ostensibly cast aspersions on his choice but this will be done in fun. For example, "...On the boys' beers tonght then, Charlie...?"Foreigners sometimes misunderstand British humour and might misinterpret remarks of this nature as rudeness. (And it would be unwise for one not used to our style of humour to try to emulate it)

In some all-male groups there might be a macho culture that would manifest itself by some members making fun of one who chose to drink halves. However, it is usually enough simply to say something like, "...I'm driving tonight so I need to keep it down...", should the half-drinker feel it necessary to explain his actions.

When I was at the GBBF I drank halves (from a pint tankard) since that way I could try a greater number of different beers.

So the answer is, order what you want to order - just so long as it's Real Ale!

[chazwicke]

I am quite certain that the barkeep was well aquainted and kidding the patron. I have always enjoyed the legendary British humor. Most Americans are exposed to it via the many television series that make their way across the pond. Of course the most famous being Monty Python.

[Saint Patrick]

... pretty cool that the president went to Iraq (on Thanksgiving) to spend some time with the armed forces.

[GunNut76]

The alchohol content of beer and other spirits in the USA is given as Alchohol % By Weight most of the time. The rest of the world uses Alchohol % By Volume. This makes American beers seem weaker because 5% ABV is 4% ABW. Just thought you guys would enjoy a bit of trivia.

[steveh]

Originally posted by GunNut76
The alchohol content of beer and other spirits in the USA is given as Alchohol % By Weight most of the time. The rest of the world uses Alchohol % By Volume. This makes American beers seem weaker because 5% ABV is 4% ABW. Just thought you guys would enjoy a bit of trivia.

As of late, beer in the U.S. is showing its alcohol content by volume as the rest of the world does. I think it started when the breweries were actually allowed to print the percentage on the labels.

It was always funny to hear guys who'd been to Canada rave about the higher alcohol in the beers - because it was printed on the label...in ABV, not ABW. So their psyches were getting them more buzzed than the beer!

In answer to a previous question, A-B Bud is 5.0% ABV here in the U.S. as well: http://www.realbeer.com/edu/health/calories.php

S.

[Saint Patrick]

I think I'm up to buying Pres. Bush, his troops and all other nations (and their troops) involved a pint today for finding Saddam Hussein (one giant step towards PEACE worldwide) Cheers!

[b3s]

i've been resisting saying anythying...but, ya know...i knew there was a reason i didn't vote for dubbya...i understand about people who can't lead lives without booze (i call them drunks...calling them alcoholics just seems to be demeaning to people with real diseases IMO)...i respect dubbya for his life's choice, but somehow, the thought of voting for someone who can't raise a pint with me...just can't fathom that.

[Saint Patrick]

Hmmm, if I were a betting man, I'd say he probably has a drink from time to time.

[mike.reece]

sedgefield (county durham) is a 20 minute ride from were i live.
(hartlepool) this is a great pub to visit if you ever get the chance
to come over here. call in your in for a great welcome. just one word of warning the folks around here speak with a funny accent
known as geordie. so divnt fret theyll understand ye if ya speak
slowly like.

[fretlessman71]

Are you insinuating that I'm far too grandiose in my verbosity to be properly understood by the likes of your compatriots? ;)

[hopjack13]

damn it fret!, there you go again!:D

[Richard English]

Quote "...Are you insinuating that I'm far too grandiose in my verbosity to be properly understood by the likes of your compatriots?..."

You should be aware that even those pf us who live in other parts of the UK find it hard to understand Geordie!

[hopjack13]

WHAT THE HELL IS GEORDIE??? :confused:
im lost......

[mike.reece]

sorry should have explained a geordie is any one living in the newcastle-upon-tyne area of the northeast. in fact any one living in the northeast is classed as geordie even monkey hangers,
if you whant me to explain tis remark i will but later.

[mike.reece]

RICHARD.
THE PUMP IN THE PHOTO WITH THEAKSTONS ON IS IT OLD PECULIAR. IF IT IS I AM SURPRISED IT NEVER BLEW IS SOCKS OFF
WHAT A GREAT PINT THIS IS 3 PINTS AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT DAY IT IS.
WHICH REMINDS ME I MADE A VISIT TO MY LOCAL PUB YESTERDAY
17/12/03 AND HAVE THREE PINTS OF WINTER WARMERS.
ONE PINT WAS ROSEY NOSEY 4.9% AND THE OTHER TWO EXMOOR XMAS
5% A GOOD DRINK AT £1.35 A PINT

[Richard English]

I suspect it was just Theakston's bitter, not OP.

Theakton's beers are not all that special and, to an extent, they trade on the reputation of Old Peculier. Whether things will improve now that the Theakston family has bought the brewery back remains to be seen!

[stronk]

I agree with the strength! Somehow I took it upon myself to drink only OP all night and I got through about 4 pints before I forgot the way back to my college (Oxford).

[chazwicke]

I hope Theakson's beers will be better with the family returning to ownership.

[stronk]

As long as they've got the old recipes and yeast strains, it'll be just as good, surely?