Questions about London

[T Red]

I will be going to London in the spring 08. Barring any problems. I have searched the site and found much useful information.

A few questions.

Do you leave a tip at a restaurant or pub?

Do Londoners have a favorite very popular ale or two? Or are there just many breweries that produce many different quality ales. What is the most popular brand?

I'll have more questions.
Thanks,
Tim

[MeridianFC]

You don't tip for bar service. If you've been exceptionally well treated and propping up the stick for a while at a public house, on a later round (beer is bought in rounds. always stand your round) you might offer the publican "and one for you as well".

Tip in restaurant as normal. That said I've found it's not usually expected in small cafes but is for finer dining. Any resident Brits here can sort you out with the current protocol.

There's a lot of beer in London so it'd be hard to point to one as a favorite, though the commonly found ale currently brewed in the capital is Fullers, and damned fine it is. Youngs used to be based in London but is no longer. The most popular brand in beer in London by volume is probably Stella or some other crap. Steer clear. In any case you can find so much good ale in London it shouldn't be an issue. In addition to Fullers and Youngs, see if you can locate Timothy Taylor's, Sam Smith, or St. Peters.

Get the CAMRA Good Beer Guide. Today.

[Theakston]

Meridian has covered most points. Remember that in a pub you go to the bar and pay as you go.

Generally you tip in situations where they bring stuff to you and give you a bill at the end. 10-15% is normal more if you have had great service. But check that they haven't already added a service charge to the bill! (this is common in Europe generally - I usually give a couple of quid cash on top of this to the server because often the service charge is sucked up by corporate or spread amongst the whole staff).

There's a lot of good beer in London and you've probably researched it on this site (there are plenty of good tips on the Beer in UK section).My favourite pub in London has become the Market Porter (by the Borough Market which is worth the trip in itself) If you are in the Covent Garden Area check out the Nags Head which is a McMullens pub - the only downtown location for an underrated East End brewery.

And as MFC says Get the CAMRA pub guide!!!!
If you want specific location advice let us know where you plan on staying / visiting.

[T Red]

Thanks for the tips.

I will definitely get the CAMRA guide.



I will post specifics on where I'm stay as when I find out.
I would also like to tour a couple of brewery's if you have any thoughts on them.
Thanks,
Tim

[surfadelic23]

Here are some links for ya. I've had the opp. to be in England 3-4 times in the last year or so and found these to be very helpful:

A great publication now online:

http://www.londondrinker.org.uk/

Has reviews and a whole section on pub etiquette called UK visitors guide:

http://fancyapint.com/

Pub reviews:

http://www.beerintheevening.com/

CAMRA (campaign for real ale):
They have sub websites for most locales too:

http://www.camra.org.uk/

The only major brewery in London now is Fullers, they do tours which are pretty good:

http://www.fullers.co.uk/

A blog from a londoner with a passion for beer... pretty amusing writer too:

http://www.camra.org.uk/

Let me know if you've any other questions...

[chazwicke]

I don't know that I can add anything to what has been said above except to look for the handpumps and forego anything else.

I whole heartedly recommend the Market Porter pub as well. And it happens to be right next to Neils Dairy Yard where you can get exceptional cheeses and it's just up the block to the Brew Wharf brewpub where you can try the Meantime brewery beers as well as those brewed on premises

[surfadelic23]

Market Porter is excellent. Also great is the Royal Oak on Tabbard St...

[T Red]

Thanks for the help.

I just found out we will be staying at the Hilton on Park Lane. Close to Hyde Park.

[TrojanBrewer]

Those links are excellent. I am planning a trip through England and possibly Ireland. It sounds like Ireland is so big that I would be best served visiting Guinness and maybe a whiskey/scotch bar?

Do you guys have any links for cheap rooms/hostels? Or suggestions for a 27 year old guy travelling before he goes back to start grad school?

Cheers!

[chazwicke]

I'm sort of in the pre planning stages myself for this years trip to Britian. My son and I are thinking of going to GBBF this August. It's been a couple of years since I last attended GBBF and time for a revisit. I'll hopefully meet up with Richard there as we have done previously. And Stronk too.

[denver brewhoo]

I'll just add to the excellent info you have received, that I, next time in London, will MAKE myself locate and patronize a Shepard-Neame pub, and a Timothy Taylor pub, something I have missed out on every trip so far, where I always seem to be in a Youngs or a Fuller house, or one of the Nicholson free houses, plus the above referenced Nags Head in Covent Garden where the McMullen beers really hit the spot.

[Theakston]

I'll just add to the excellent info you have received, that I, next time in London, will MAKE myself locate and patronize a Shepard-Neame pub, and a Timothy Taylor pub, something I have missed out on every trip so far, where I always seem to be in a Youngs or a Fuller house, or one of the Nicholson free houses, plus the above referenced Nags Head in Covent Garden where the McMullen beers really hit the spot.
You will need to get out of London to get to a Timothy Taylor pub - they only have them in the Lancashire / Yorkshire moors (AKA God's country).

[denver brewhoo]

I see you're at the Park Lane Hilton, I'd say go to fancyapint.com and check out say the pubs near the Hyde Park Corner tube station (one of the ways that site is organized) I see they give "four pints" to the Horse and Groom in Belgravia, a Shepherd Neame house. Which is what I'm looking for, my next trip...

[beerking]

If you get a chance, I enjoyed the Archer's Green. It is a tied house for Badger Ales, which is far from London for a tied house. You will find them different from what else is served in London. It is up near Paddington Sta, on a tiny Mew (fancy name for a clean alley), which I think was Archerr's Mew, but I am not sure about that. Little hard to find, but a nice quiet local with good beer and good fish and chips.

[surfadelic23]

"You will need to get out of London to get to a Timothy Taylor pub"
or
You could go to the Bricklayers Arms in Putney! It's a bit closer than heading up norf (10 minute walk from putney bridge tube (district line) and you can stop at the White Horse, a five minute walk from parson's green tube(also district line) ! Though I guess technically it isn't London...
;-)

For badger ales, try the St Stephens tavern right across from big ben...

Pick up an a-z guide too... indispensable...

[chazwicke]

I've been to several Shepherd Neame pubs in London. There is a fairly small one with some outside seating down near Petty France It is on a corner and you have views of the Catholic Cathedral. I have a sphoto I took of its pumps and SN badges that I use as a desktop on my laptop. I may have the name of it somewhere here on my office computer. I'll check in a bit.

BTW you can find the wonderful Tim Taylor's Landlord in many London pubs. I know the Wetherspoons Pubs are a chain but They are usually a good place for Real Ale. They usually have several guest ales available from smaller brewers that don't usually have thier beers in London. The pint prices are cheaper and before it was banned in England they were mostly no smoking.

Perhaps Richard will chime in here with some recommendations.

[chazwicke]

Here is a list of places I drank and which beers I had on One trip:

Shepherd Neame Spitfire Hand and Flower
Everard's Tiger Best Bitter Hand and Flower
Gales HSB GBBF Olympia
Higate Dark Mild GBBF Olympia
Glastonbury Mystery Tor GBBF Olympia
Timothy Taylor Landlord GBBF Olympia
Woodfordes Wherry Best Bitter GBBF Olympia
Hook Norton Best Bitter GBBF Olympia
Titanic Mild GBBF Olympia
Ridley's IPA GBBF Olympia
Marston's Pedigree GBBF Olympia
Vale Black Swan Dark Mild GBBF Olympia
Harviestoun Bitter and Twisted GBBF Olympia 2003 Best of Show Scotland
Greene King 1799 Bicentennial Ale GBBF Olympia
Coniston Bluebird GBBF Olympia
Schlenkerla Rauch Maerzen GBBF Olympia Germany
Olde Trip Ale GBBF Olympia
Caledonian Deucher's IPA GBBF Olympia 2002 Best of Show Scotland
Badger Fursty Ferret GBBF Olympia
Caines Triple Hop GBBF Olympia
Boat Brewery Lockys Liquor Locker GBBF Olympia
Harvey's Sussex XX Mild Ale GBBF Olympia
Holden's Black Country Bitter GBBF Olympia
Crouch Vale Brewers Gold GBBF Olympia Silver Award Winner
Wadworth 6X GBBF Olympia
Hobson's Hop Garden Gold GBBF Olympia
Salamander Mudpuppy GBBF Olympia
Young's Special GBBF Olympia
Ceylon Lion Stout GBBF Olympia Bottled Sri Lanka
Hopdaemon Skrimshander IPA GBBF Olympia
Bridge of Allan Lomond Gold GBBF Olympia Scotland
Black Sheep Emmerdale GBBF Olympia
Fuller's 1845 GBBF Olympia Bottled
Greene King IPA Paxton's Head Knightsbridge
Hampshire Gold Reserve GBBF Olympia
Old Mill Traditional Mild GBBF Olympia
Highwood Tom Woods Shepherd's Delight GBBF Olympia
Greene King XX Mild GBBF Olympia
Charles Wells Banana Bread Beer GBBF Olympia
Adnam's Best Bitter GBBF Olympia
Bateman's Dark Mild GBBF Olympia
Everard's Beacon Bitter GBBF Olympia
Courage Director's Bitter Goat Kensington
Murphy's Stout Fox and Hendersons Nitro Kensington
Young's Special Duke of Wellington Portebello road
Fuller's London Pride Churchill Arms 1999 Best Pub Notting Hill / Kensington
St. Austell Black Prince GBBF Olympia
Lidstone' s Rowley Mild GBBF Olympia
Green Tye Union Jack GBBF Olympia
Organic Black Rock GBBF Olympia
Hexhampshire Devil's Elbow GBBF Olympia
Beaver Bitter GBBF Olympia
Ridley's Rumpus GBBF Olympia
Thwaites Best Mild GBBF Olympia
Fuller's ESB GBBF Olympia
Marston's Bitter GBBF Olympia
Fuller's London Pride Elephant and Castle Kensington
Old Speckled Hen Prince of Wales Kensington
Caledonian 80/ William Wallace Marleborne (Scotland)
Adnam's Best Bitter Duke of York Oxford Street
Samuel Smith's Old Brewery Bitter Lyceum Tavern Strand
Shepherd Neame Master Brew Freemasons Arms Covent Garden
Sweet William Brewery William the Conquorer The Cross Key Covent Garden
Greene King IPA Marquis of Granby Soho
Palmer Brewery Dorset Gold Marquis of Granby Soho
Smiles Bristol IPA Britania Great Pub Kensington
Fuller's London Pride The Coal House Strand
McMullen AK Nag's Head Covent Garden
Country Best Bitter Nag's Head Covent Garden
Timothy Taylor Landlord White Lion Covent Garden
Timothy Taylor Landlord Pontefract Castle Marleborne
Greene King IPA Cock and Lion Marleborne
Brakspears Bitter Westminster Arms Westminster
Bateman's Summer Swallow Two Chairmen Great Pub Westminster
Theakston's Old Peculiar Adam and Eve Westminster / Victoria
Young's Bitter Buckingham Arms Great Pub Westminster / Victoria
Abbot Ale The Colonies Westminster / Victoria
Shepherd Neame Best Bitter Cask and Glass Westminster / Victoria
Fuller's London Pride Bag O Nails Victoria
Exe Valley Weatherspoons Victoria
Brain's SA Weatherspoons Victoria (Wales)

[chazwicke]

Here is another short visit:

3/11/2006 Lord Moon of the Mall - Whitehall Cairngorm Stag
Theakston's Brown Mild
Bag 'O Nails - Victoria Deucher's IPA
Green King IPA
Kings Arms - Victoria Charles Wells' Bombardier
3/12/2006 Spanish Galleon - Greenwich Spitfire
Bishop's Finger
Liberty Bounds - Tower Hill Coach House Inn Keepers
Grenadier - Belgravia Adnam's Bitter
London Pride
Molly O'Grady's - Victoria Station Greene King IPA
Weatherspoons - Victoria Station Festivity Bath Rum Porter
3/13/2006 Volunteer - Baker Street Timothy Taylor's Landlord
Caine's Triple Hop
Cove - Covent Garden St. Austell HSD
White Horse - Parsons Green Harvey's Sussex Best Bitter
Rooster's Yankee
Oakham Jeffery Hudson Bitter
3/14/2006 Buckingham Arms - Westminster Young's St. Georges
Young's Ordinary
Young's SLA (bottle conditioned)
Star - Westminster Moreland Original Bitter
Ruddles County Ale
Albert - Westminster London Pride

[chazwicke]

And one last:



WHAT I DRANK AND WHERE MARCH 2007 TOUR

3/8/2007
Lufthansa Flight
Wharfsteiner

3/9/2007
Frankfurt Airport - Germany
Licher Pils

Hilton Metropole
Guinness from Dublin (Can)

Market Porter - Borough Market
Solitaire Cascade Pale
Harvey’s Sussex Bitter
Archer’s Tinderbox
Mayfield Conqueror

Brew Wharf – Borough Market
Meantime Kolsch
Meantime Pils

Atlas – Earls Court
Duechars IPA
Tim Taylors Landlord

3/10/2007
Mitre – Greenwich
Greene King IPA
Adnan’s Bitter

Spanish Galleon – Greenwich
Sheperd Neame Master Brew
Sheperd Neame Spitfire

Restaurant – Chinatown
Tiger (Can)

The Green Man – Marleborne
Director’s Bitter

Royal Exchange – Marleborne
Adnan’s Bitter
Brakspear Bitter

Rob Roy – Marleborne
Deuchars IPA
Great Western – Marleborne
Green King IPA

3/11/2007
Lord Moon On The Mall (Wetherspoons)- Whitehall
White Horse Dragon Hill
Cotleigh Tawney Owl

Coal Hole – Strand
Smiles Frosty Jack

Opera Tavern – Covent Garden
Brain’s Bread of Heaven
Gale’s Swing Low
Wychwood Dirty Tackle
Marsdon’s Pedigree

Wellington – Strand
Tim Taylor Landlord
Abbot Ale

3/12/2007
Cloisters – Salisbury
Ringwood Best Bitter
Hopback Summer Lightning

Market Inn – Salisbury
Goddard’s Market Inn Special Bitter
Fuller’s London Pride

Hotel – Bath
Murphy’s Stout (Nitro Tap)

Huntsman – Bath
Jenning’s Cumberland (Marsdon’s)
Abbey Ale’s Bellringer (Brewed in Bath)

The Ale House
Bath Ale’s Gem

Frontier Riflemans Arms
Chedder Ales Potholer
Moles Mole Catcher
Weymouth Durdle Door (Dorset Brewing)
Abbey Ale’s Bellringer (Brewed in Bath)

3/13/2007
White Hart – Stow on Wold
Arkell’s 2B
Arkell’s Kingsdown Special

Rose and Crown – Stratford on Avon
Theakston’s Cooper’s Butt

Boat – Llangollen, Wales
Whetherly’s Bitter (Can)

Trevor Sun – Llangollen, Wales
Thwaites
Spinning Dog Brewery’s Hereford’s Organic bitter

3/14/2007
The Lamb Inn – Grasmere Lake District
Theakston Best Bitter
Theakston XB

The Abbottsford – Edinburgh, Scotland
Hadrian Border Brewer’s Bramling Cross
Hadrian Border Brewer’s Legion
Broughten Ale’s Match Ale

Milnes – Edinburgh, Scotland
Deuchars IPA
Caledonian 80 Shilling
Theakston Cooper’s Butt

Kenilworth – Edinburgh, Scotland
Bateman’s Salem Porter
Woodforde’s Wherry
Caledonian 80 Shilling
Staropramen (Tap)

3/15/2007
The Royal McGregor – Edinburgh, Scotland
Vale Brewery Special
Inveralmond Thrappledouser

Mitre – Edinburgh, Scotland
Caledonian 80 Shilling

Worlds End – Edinburgh, Scotland
Belhaven 80 Shilling
Abbot Ale

Tass – Edinburgh, Scotland
Inveralmond Thrappledouser

3/16/2007
Golden Fleece – York
York Brewery’s Yorkshire Terrior
Blacksheep Bitter

Blacksmith Arm – York
Samuel Smith’s Bitter

3/17/2007
Golden Fleece – Stamford
Everard’s Tiger
Everard’s Original

Plough and Harrow (Wetherspoons) - Hammersmith
Butcombe Brewery Bitter
Brasserie D’ Ecaussinnes Belgian Amber (Belgian Cask)

3/18/2007
Frankfurt Airport – Germany
Licher Pils

Lufthansa Flight
Warfsteiner

Total Beers Consumed by Chuck and Andrew: 100
(Multiple beers were consumed in some of the above pubs but the beer is only listed once.)

Favorites: Caledonian 80 Shilling & Tim Taylor’s Landlord
Worst: Wetherly’s Bitter.

[chazwicke]

I can't find my lists from the 2004 and 2005 trips

[Theakston]

"You will need to get out of London to get to a Timothy Taylor pub"
or
You could go to the Bricklayers Arms in Putney! It's a bit closer than heading up norf (10 minute walk from putney bridge tube (district line) and you can stop at the White Horse, a five minute walk from parson's green tube(also district line) ! Though I guess technically it isn't London...
;-)

For badger ales, try the St Stephens tavern right across from big ben...

Pick up an a-z guide too... indispensable...

Bricklayers is a fine pub but it aint a Timothy Taylors pub (although they do sell a mean pint of Landlord). The OP was expressing a desire to sample a pint in a pub owned by the brewery. There is often a huge difference in the way it is kept and the freshness. This is particularly true of Timothy Taylor's beers, especially ones as focused on aroma hops as Landlord. Plus there are several other great beers are rarely seen outside of their own pubs (ramtam, golden best etc). To get all the TT range, at the peak of condition, you really need to seek out one of their own pubs. And it helps that they are located in a very beautiful part of the world.
(Did I mention beers much cheaper up north too!)
http://www.timothy-taylor.co.uk/tied.htm

[surfadelic23]

Huh. Guess I got confused by the fact that they sell the entire range! I figured any place that would do that must be tied... It was nice trying everything they brewed while only taking the tube for two stops!

http://www.bricklayers-arms.co.uk/

[Theakston]

Yes it's a great pub. I went there last October after a match at Craven Cottage (Fullham FC). Nice to see they have the whole TT line-up now - I don't think they had them all when I was there, but they had a fine selection of other beers as well. All well kept.
So if you can't be persuaded to trek up to Skipton / Keithley/ Haworth etc. this is probably next best. Thanks for the link - good to see they have a link to one of our members blogs!

[surfadelic23]

Yes it's a great pub. I went there last October after a match at Craven Cottage (Fullham FC). Nice to see they have the whole TT line-up now - I don't think they had them all when I was there, but they had a fine selection of other beers as well. All well kept.

SMALL WORLD, I was there at exactly the same time and day and for the same reason(FFC v. Derby... dire match)! The TT delivery was late though! The brewery truck arrived as we were leaving!

So if you can't be persuaded to trek up to Skipton / Keithley/ Haworth etc. this is probably next best. Thanks for the link - good to see they have a link to one of our members blogs!

I'm planning my next vacation in fall to do some exploring up north! Too funny about the link to your member's blog! Small world, eh?

[stronk]

Hello again everyone. It's been a while. Just a flying visit; I'm a finalist now.

I can recommend the Bricklayer's Arms in Putney (seems to be the best pub I can find on the high street; there's a characterless Wetherspoons at the other end, if you're just looking for beer), although they don't often have the whole Timothy Taylor's selection on tap. I get the feeling that they don't like to have more than about 2 ales on tap at once these days (although I did find about 4 when I first went there about a year ago).

As for the White Horse: it's been getting steadily worse for a while now. As well as usually being packed to the gunnels with very loud yuppies, they have just raised prices again (from ridiculously expensive to outrageously expensive) and their service has been getting progressively worse.

I went in there a few days ago and asked for a Schneider Aventinus. After I had convinced the barmaid that she had no idea what I was asking for, she went to get another barmaid who apparently did. She got out a bottle, opened it and was about to pour it when I said that I would do it myself. I got a 'you're far too stupid to pour your own beer' look and she told me: "You'll have to pour it in front of me, then. I can't let you take it away from the bar in the bottle". Then it turned out that the (already open) bottle was room temperature and that she'd obviously been going to sell it to me without telling me. And after all this, the bloody thing cost me about four quid!

However, they do have a (slowly shrinking) range of continental beers that you won't easily find in another London pub; their cask beers are well-kept and they have several good kegs on tap at once. If you're feeling rich and don't mind standing and shouting, it's still worth a visit. I, however, will steer clear and make tracks for Putney.

[surfadelic23]

Sorry to hear that about the White Horse! Though on balance, I'd probably take sloanies over chavs any day... I can deal with the braying yuppies, but bad faux burberry and the odds of getting glassed by some pimple faced twit...

[TrojanBrewer]

What do you guys think of travelling through hostels? Any experiences?

[surfadelic23]

Never did the hostel thing. Cheap hotel chains where I've stayed are TravelLodge and Jury's Inn. You can also find some good deals on B&Bs too.
I stayed at a place in Edinburgh that was 40 quid a night and included a full breakfast fry up every morning... It was wonderful... Remember, to a certain extent you get what you pay for...
hth...

[chazwicke]

If you get a chance, I enjoyed the Archer's Green. It is a tied house for Badger Ales, which is far from London for a tied house. You will find them different from what else is served in London. It is up near Paddington Sta, on a tiny Mew (fancy name for a clean alley), which I think was Archerr's Mew, but I am not sure about that. Little hard to find, but a nice quiet local with good beer and good fish and chips.


Is this the one you were speaking of?

http://fancyapint.com/pubs/pub1324.html

looks to have been turned into a restaurant.

[chazwicke]

[QUOTE=chazwicke]I've been to several Shepherd Neame pubs in London. There is a fairly small one with some outside seating down near Petty France It is on a corner and you have views of the Catholic Cathedral. I have a sphoto I took of its pumps and SN badges that I use as a desktop on my laptop. I may have the name of it somewhere here on my office computer. I'll check in a bit.

QUOTE]