Bagged Ice to Chill Wort?

[jaxmgd]

On a side note to my last question about my first "grain" kit brew. I used about 8lbs of bagged grocery store ice to chill the wort. Some guy at the brew shop said this was cool. Is it? I don't have a wort chiller yet.

[Indytom]

I have done what you describe. I dodged the bullet and the beer was fine. I won't do it again. although I I have heard several people (none here) recommend it. I now have a wort chiller, but I have not brewed with it yet.


Tom

[S.F.B.]

Are you talking about putting the ice into the wort? I've never heard of doing this before. If you don't have a chiller I woud recommend using a gallon of bottled spring water. Freeze it a day or more ahead of use. Cut the plastic jug away and put into wort. I used to do this prior to getting a chiller.

[jaxmgd]

Originally posted by S.F.B.
Are you talking about putting the ice into the wort? I've never heard of doing this before. If you don't have a chiller I woud recommend using a gallon of bottled spring water. Freeze it a day or more ahead of use. Cut the plastic jug away and put into wort. I used to do this prior to getting a chiller.

Actually, I'm talking about a 10lb bag of ice dumped into my primary (5 gallon plastic bucket). Then, I dump the hot wort over the ice. Trust me, it chills it down FAST. I know a wort chiller would be better, but this is just a low budget op here. Curious as to why the bagged ice would be bad. I thought it was made from clean filtered water ... but I don't know for sure?

[hooky]

I think that's what SFB and Tom are getting at. You don't really know if the ice was "clean" to begin with. You can't really know if the spring water in the jug is clean either.

I've read advice about boiling water, freezing it and using it as SFB suggests with the spring water. I've never tried it though. It seemed easier to use the ice in a water bath to cool my pot.

[DecoJuicer]

I have a question along these lines.

Has anybody used a 2 stage wort chiller?? I have thought about doing this. Put the first set of coils into an ice bath and run the water through the coils to cool it down even more before running it through the second set which would be in my wort.

Any thoughts?

[aarunt1]

Funny you say that DecoJuicer I was planning on doing that when I got my Chiller and I don't see why other aren't doing that.

[jaxmgd]

What is the goal with wort chilling anyway? How fast should you take the wort down in temp and to what temp should it go?

[cul8rv8]

You want to take it down as fast as you can, and the target is whatever temperature you are pitching your yeast at.

[aarunt1]

jax - I've read a couple of your posts. Sounds like you need to read a book about brewing. I've only brewed one batch but I have read most of How To Brew by John Palmer and Joy of Homebrewing by Charlie Papazian and I know a lot of the questions you ask just from those books. I would recommend you read them.
Onto your question, wort chillers cool down the wort fast. The longer it takes to cool down your wort the longer it's exposed to air born contaminants. Ideal yeast pitching temp is below 80 degree F. A wort chiller will get you there or around there in less than a half hour.

[psychodad]

Originally posted by DecoJuicer
I have a question along these lines.

Has anybody used a 2 stage wort chiller?? I have thought about doing this. Put the first set of coils into an ice bath and run the water through the coils to cool it down even more before running it through the second set which would be in my wort.

Any thoughts?

This is being done. BYO has an article in the new issue that describes a varient of it too.

[wortchillergoal]

Originally posted by DecoJuicer
I have a question along these lines.

Has anybody used a 2 stage wort chiller?? I have thought about doing this. Put the first set of coils into an ice bath and run the water through the coils to cool it down even more before running it through the second set which would be in my wort.

Any thoughts?

One of the gents that used to own and operate The Home Brewery business, now defunct, told me that this is common practice in warm climates.

I have a long feed tube on my chiller, I have coiled that in a bucket with ice. I did no gathering of data to see how much if any quicker the results might be.

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by jaxmgd
On a side note to my last question about my first "grain" kit brew. I used about 8lbs of bagged grocery store ice to chill the wort. Some guy at the brew shop said this was cool. Is it? I don't have a wort chiller yet.

I used to do this, but the water was always boiled first....I was advised to do this first.

[darylM]

You don't want to be putting alot of oxygen in your hot wort. it would be best to chill the wort in the pot first then pour it into the fermenter. I know its more of a pain but it keeps the flavor of your beer more stable.

[Mad Scientist]

daryl makes a good point, but boiled water should not have too much dissolved O2

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by DecoJuicer
I have a question along these lines.

Has anybody used a 2 stage wort chiller?? I have thought about doing this. Put the first set of coils into an ice bath and run the water through the coils to cool it down even more before running it through the second set which would be in my wort.

Any thoughts?

I tried this with a standard immersion before sending that chilled water to my CFC. Tap water in LA is a bit warmer than you'd like for chilling during the summer.

My problem was that the first stage restricted the flow of chilling water through the CFC, so it cooled less efficiently than before. This may not be the case with an immersion chiller, though

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by HogieWan
I tried this with a standard immersion before sending that chilled water to my CFC. Tap water in LA is a bit warmer than you'd like for chilling during the summer.

My problem was that the first stage restricted the flow of chilling water through the CFC, so it cooled less efficiently than before. This may not be the case with an immersion chiller, though

You'd have to make sure that what ever pre-chiller you use, it does not restrict the flow too much.

[Mill Rat]

Or you may only want to cut the pre-chiller into the line once you've dropped down to about 100 F or so. That'll save ice and keep the flow volume up at first when you're dropping out of the near-boiling range and the difference between 40 and 70 F chilling water won't make nearly as much difference.

[darylM]

Originally posted by Boerne Brew
daryl makes a good point, but boiled water should not have too much dissolved O2

i was referring to the pouring of the hot wort may introduce O2 into the mix.

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by darylM
i was referring to the pouring of the hot wort may introduce O2 into the mix.

Oh, I see....I always took my blocks out of the freezer, let them defrost enough to be able to slide out fo the container, and put the in the kettle. By the time I was pouring into the fermenter, it was already cooled.

[jones'soda]

i'm in the process of getting a prechiller, i'll pretty much make a new immersion chiller, then use my current one as the prechiller. The water source i use is pretty warm, so the use of the prechiller will be useful, to [hopefully] increase its efficiency i'll probably put salt in the bucket with the ice/prechiller.
but i imagine if the water source you use is already pretty cold then you don't need an prechiller.

[darylM]

Originally posted by jones'soda
i'm in the process of getting a prechiller, i'll pretty much make a new immersion chiller, then use my current one as the prechiller. The water source i use is pretty warm, so the use of the prechiller will be useful, to [hopefully] increase its efficiency i'll probably put salt in the bucket with the ice/prechiller.
but i imagine if the water source you use is already pretty cold then you don't need an prechiller.

I am going to set up a system that recirculates the water. That way i can prechill it before I use it. This will be handy when the wort hits the 100 degree level.

[jones'soda]

Originally posted by darylM
I am going to set up a system that recirculates the water. That way i can prechill it before I use it. This will be handy when the wort hits the 100 degree level.

i'm a little lost[i also have slept in 3 days, and studying the entire time, so right now my brain is a little dead] but could you explain the system of recirculating water. like, are you recirculating the water on the line out of the chiller, if so. where are you recirculating it to [ie are you using it as a recycle stream somewhere]. if you could explain to as much detail as possible that would be AWESOME, maybe it'll give me an idea for redesigning my chiller system.

[Shaun Goeckner]

Hey, I use a two coil system; I use my origanl 3/8" copper line (about 45') in a double coil to prechill tap hose water in a bucekt with 20lbs of crushed ice. This feeds a 1/2" inch double coil copper immersion chiller, and cools my 10 gallon batch in about 20 minutes.

as to the Lemon Beer, I did a Honey Lemon Lager and used Yerba Louisa instead of hops for bittering. It's a lemon grass from South America that makes a lemon flavor tea. You have to be careful though becaus eit has a TON of tannin in it, and you only want to dip the leaf in it for a few minutes at flameout....

[darylM]

Originally posted by jones'soda
i'm a little lost[i also have slept in 3 days, and studying the entire time, so right now my brain is a little dead] but could you explain the system of recirculating water. like, are you recirculating the water on the line out of the chiller, if so. where are you recirculating it to [ie are you using it as a recycle stream somewhere]. if you could explain to as much detail as possible that would be AWESOME, maybe it'll give me an idea for redesigning my chiller system.

I got this from a BYO article so I can't claim the idea as my own.

You start with a cooler or bucket and fill it full of water. A pump is hooked from the water to the input of the chiller. The output of the chiller is allowed to go into the water bucket. The biggest part of this system is the pump. According to the article, an immersion chiller is going to need a pump with about 10 feet of head. The water is going to get warm so something that cools the water fast is going to be needed.

[deucedaily]

Originally posted by jones'soda
i'm in the process of getting a prechiller, i'll pretty much make a new immersion chiller, then use my current one as the prechiller. The water source i use is pretty warm, so the use of the prechiller will be useful, to [hopefully] increase its efficiency i'll probably put salt in the bucket with the ice/prechiller.
but i imagine if the water source you use is already pretty cold then you don't need an prechiller.

I have a similar setup. I did this because my tap water would heat up over the course of the cooling, even after apartment maintenance staff "fixed" it. The cooler temperatures coming seem to have helped, but it still warms up a bit and melts before getting to the temp I want. How much rock salt are you planning to add (or have others added)? I think this may prolong the changing of the water for me to the point of not having to change it at all. I also will take the water I'm adding into to get to volume (using partial mash) in the fridge the day before so I can get to pitching temp.

[corkybstewart]

I used a pre-chiller a few times but had problems with restricting flow so I ditched that idea. I use a copper counter flow chiller from morebeer.com and I've had much better luck putting the CFC into an old bucket fermenter full of ice. I also use about 5 Blue Ice packs to help maintain the ice since it starts to melt pretty fast. If I can get the first third of the wort in at around 55-60 I can keep the wort temp down to around 68-70 by the time it's all in there.