New guy questions

[Smh77]

I just recently became very interested in home brewing and I've started reading the John Palmer book "How to Brew." I got to the part about the layer of yeast at the bottom of the bottle and I got to thinking, Is there anyway to avoid having the layer of yeast in there? How do large breweries avoid having sediment in their drinks? Are there any large breweries that have layers of yeast in the bottom of their beers? How does that yeast affect the beer, or myself, should I accidently drink it? Thanks for any answers on the subject you can give me.

[BrewDog]

Welcome to the site-

Palmer's book is a great reference.

Many of us carbonate it in kegs, then transfer that to bottles. That can be done either by naturally carbonating in the keg or force carbonating it. Either way, there is little to no yeast left in the bottle doing it that way.

Many large breweries bottle condition their beers, especially the British ales.

Don't be totally afraid of the yeast in the bottle. It won't hurt you, in fact, it's loaded with B vitamins. It may taste a little harsh, but it won't taste totally bad, either.

Generally, ingesting the yeast will give you the beer farts as the yeast comes back to life inside of you and it goes back to work on the sugars it finds available. That, too, will 'pass' (pun intended).

HTH-

[SoxyinMO]

Originally posted by Smh77
I just recently became very interested in home brewing and I've started reading the John Palmer book "How to Brew." I got to the part about the layer of yeast at the bottom of the bottle and I got to thinking, Is there anyway to avoid having the layer of yeast in there? How do large breweries avoid having sediment in their drinks? Are there any large breweries that have layers of yeast in the bottom of their beers? How does that yeast affect the beer, or myself, should I accidently drink it? Thanks for any answers on the subject you can give me.

Hey there.

If you're bottle conditioning, and use a secondary fermenter, you can rack your beer over to the secondary and leave most the yeast cake in the primary bottle. (Which you will, of course, wash thoroughly!)
Then when you bottle your brew there won't be as much in the secondary to worry about bottling.

For the little that is in your bottles, just pour carefully & it'll be all good.

Brewing is fun and there's nothing quite like having someone go on & on about how great your beer is!

[Mill Rat]

Originally posted by SoxyinMO
there's nothing quite like having someone go on & on about how great your beer is! Then there's having someone who's a serious fan of a particular brand of craft brew tell you that your attempt to make a clone of the beer or at least one very close in style tell you that your brew is better than their commercial favorite.

[Smh77]

Thanks for the help! This site is pretty awesome. I was hoping to get a response eventually, but I didn't expect to get answers so quickly.

Another question that came to mind, does force carbonating require alot of fancy equipment and technical know how? Is there a great benefit to force over natural or vice versa?

[corkybstewart]

Welcome to the site.
Force carbonating is extremely simple. Chill the keg, hook it to the gas and leave it alone for a week. If you're impatient, you can crank the pressure up to 25 psi and shake the keg for a few minutes, let it sit, then shake it again. After a couple of rounds it will be carbonated, but it's pretty hard to judge when it's properly carbonated-every time I tried it the beer ended up way over carbonated.

[Mill Rat]

The advantage to natural carbonation is that it is reputed to produce a better flavor than force carb. I have not noticed the difference, though I do not have the world's best taste & smell faculties due to an industrial accident. There is also said to be a improvement in long aging of beers with natural carbonation, due to the presence of the yeast. Unless you filter the yeast out before you bottle, it'll be there whether you force or naturally carb. Natural carbonation does require far less investment in equipment.

The advantage to force carb is reliability. One week on gas and it is carbed. It's physics. With natural carbonation, you go to a little more effort, and the process proceeds on "yeast time," and yeast do not adhere to anyone's calendric expectations. Natural carbonation of a high ABV beer can take a month or longer.

[barleyburps]

the process proceeds on "yeast time," and yeast do not adhere to anyone's calendric expectations.

amen. .

[Smh77]

When it comes to carbonating in kegs is there a special style of keg that's needed? I have a kegorator with all the components to pour beer, I'm assuming that I'll need additional attachments to carbonate it. Also once everything is attached to CO2 what's the guidlines for pressure and time needed. Thanks again to everybody, this is all extremely helpful.

[Mill Rat]

If you can push beer with CO2, you can force carb, no additional equipment needed. Four simple steps:
1 - put beer in sanitzed keg and close it up.
2 - put gas on the beer at your serving pressure if the keg is kept chilled, if at room temp, at double your serving pressure. Vent some gas out of the pressure relief valve to clear out the O2 in the headspace.
3 - wait one week
4 - hitch up the liquid line and enjoy.

[corkybstewart]

Originally posted by Smh77
When it comes to carbonating in kegs is there a special style of keg that's needed? I have a kegorator with all the components to pour beer, I'm assuming that I'll need additional attachments to carbonate it. Also once everything is attached to CO2 what's the guidlines for pressure and time needed. Thanks again to everybody, this is all extremely helpful.
It depends on the kegerator. Homebrew is usually served in Cornelius kegs(cornies) whereas most store bought kegerators are designed for Sanke kegs. If your's is set up for Sankes you'll need to get some cornies, either pin or ball lock, and then get the appropriate connectors.

[Smh77]

Awesome, thank you very much.

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by SoxyinMO
Brewing is fun and there's nothing quite like having someone go on & on about how great your beer is!

Try going to a beer festival with your homebrew, put it up against the microbrews and the brewpubs who are presnt, then show them up! I may get invited back to the brew pub that hosted the event as a guest brewer.....

[Test_Engineer]

Some styles of beer REQUIRE the yeast in there to be considered correct. Hefe-Weizen for example means "with yeast"(hefe=yeast, weizen=wheat). Now, Krystal Weizen on the other hand is essentially the exact same thing as hefe-Weizen, but the yeast is filtered out.

Some breweries will actually filter out their fermentation yeast and add lager yeast back into the beer just before bottling for bottle conditioning that can take place at a colder temperature.

basically beers that are cloudy or have a bit of sediment at the bottom are bottle conditioned, and those that are very clear are filtered somehow(not necessarily an actual filter) and force carbed before bottling.

You eat and breath yeast everyday... it isn't going to hurt you.

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by Test_Engineer
Some styles of beer REQUIRE the yeast in there to be considered correct. Hefe-Weizen for example means "with yeast"(hefe=yeast). Now, Krystal Weizen on the other hand is essentially the exact same thing as hefe-Weizen, but the yeast is filtered out.

Some breweries like Seirra Nevada will actually fillter out their fermentation yeast and add lager yeast back into the beer just before bottleing for bottle conditioning that can take place at a colder temperature.

basically beers that are cloudy or have a bit of sediment at the bottom are bottle conditioned, and those that are very clear are filtered and force carbed before bottleing.

You eat and breath yeast everyday... it isn't going to hurt you.

Two corrections:
Hefeweizen means yeast wheat

Sierra Nevada does not add lager yeats for bottle contioning. They krausen with the same strain that they ferment with.

Also, beer does not have to be filtered to be clear, you just need to allow the yeast proper time to settle...A-B does not filter thier beer. I do not fitler mine either...I just never pour the yeast at the bottom of the bottle.

[Test_Engineer]

Originally posted by Boerne Brew
Two corrections:


Corrections made. :D I thought it was SN that did that, but maybe it was one of the krystal weizen breweries that did that.

[Mad Scientist]

European breweries, espicially those that have unique yeast strain are famous -or- notorious for filtering out their yeast and adding in a neutral strian for bottle contitioning, and to prevent yeast rustling.

[jesskidden]

Originally posted by Boerne Brew
A-B does not filter thier beer.

:confused:

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by jesskidden
:confused:

That is what their beechwood aging is for....

To go one further, their kegs are not pasteurized.

I am not playing the devil's advocate here, just making statements of fact.

[jesskidden]

Originally posted by Boerne Brew
That is what their beechwood aging is for....

.

Yes, I agree that A-B's beechwood "aging" is actually to allow the yeast to settle on the wood strips to clarify the beer, but everything I've ever read says that the beers are still filtered before bottling/kegging. If Bud wasn't filtered, I think we'd heard about that specifically in A-B advertising.

Originally posted by Boerne Brew


To go one further, their kegs are not pasteurized.



Well, that's sort of a "dog bites man" statement. Traditionally, by definition in the US, ALL draught beer wasn't pasteurized- that's sort of what draught beer *is* (or was) in the US. Altho' heavily filtered, our kegged beer was never "keg beer" as it was done in the UK. It wasn't until the craft beer era, when some brewers (Anchor comes to mind-IIRC) started pasteurizing draught beer. Many imports are also flash pasteurized now from what I understand.

Originally posted by Boerne Brew


I am not playing the devil's advocate here, just making statements of fact.

Got any links to back up the "Bud is not filtered" statement? I don't have anything other than this "tour" article of the A-B New York state brewery:

http://home.earthlink.net/~ggsurplus/ab.html (which talks about filtration after chill-proofing) and other second hand (i.e., nothing from A-B directly) sources that discuss it, like "This beechwood ageing process is followed by filtration and pasteurization." (Weiner, "Tasters Guide to Beer", 1977 in the A-B chapter).

I thought I once had a A-B diagram of their brewing process but can't seem to find it at the moment.

I'd be VERY surprised if A-B beers aren't heavily filtered before bottling or kegging.

[Mad Scientist]

No, nothing to back it up....I used to have tickets to sea world, and would frequently subject myself to the A-B brainwashing blitz for some free beer...I do not remeber anything about filtering, just the 'exclusive beechwoord aging process'. Maybe I forgot about the filtering, in effort to resist the mind control probe...

edit: OK, I went to Budweisewr's website, and they do mention filtering the beer.

[Test_Engineer]

Originally posted by Boerne Brew
edit: OK, I went to Budweisewr's website, and they do mention filtering the beer.

I thought so, but as you stated, the beechwood ageing also acts a a slight filtering process. The yeast that falls get trapped in the strips of wood and helps to filter out some of the yeast before it is sent to packaging where it does get filtered before final packaging.

There is actually a show on National Geographic Channel called Ultimate Factories, and one they visit is AB. They also made a really cool show about Ferrari.
Not sure if they have replayed it lately, but you can buy the box set for about $20 and it includes Harley, Peterbuilt, and Budweiser.

http://entertainment.circuitcity.com/Movies/Movie.aspx?prodid=NGV75226DVD&si=ccity-prod&store=Movies

[Mill Rat]

The whole beechwood aging thing got a workover about 6 or so months ago here. Since I'm to lazy to find it, here's the gist. The beechwood was selected for it's lack of a distinctive flavor, not for any flavor contribution. The main reason for the beechwood slats (or for any other slat structure in a fermenter, no matter what they are made from) is to spread the yeast cake out over a greater surface area and allow it to ferment the beer faster. Any filtration is a bonus, but it all comes down to a desire to produce the beer as fast as possible so as to get the greatest possible production rate out of their capital investment in brewing equipment. When in doubt, follow the money.