CO2 and Hangovers

[sbv32]

I did a search and couldn't find an answer to this question. I have friends that are all of the sudden "keg experts" since I just built my own kegerator.

Many of the things that they claim to know I can argue the correct point, but one that I don't really know much about is the "if you have too much CO2 you will have a bad hangover" or "beer on tap will give you more of a headache than bottle's". Can anyone shed some light on this subject for me?

Thanks,

[Mill Rat]

BS. All pure utter BS. More CO2 in beer will cause you to belch more. That's it.

[bigben]

I would say do a test. drink till you feel you are drunk on both the bottles and off your kegerator and see which one if any gives you hangovers. I know that before I go to bed I drink atleast one if not two pints of water if I can drink that much and you will find that it works. get up in the morning take a nice hot shower and a decent meal in your belly and you are all set.

[ratman03]

Originally posted by sbv32
I did a search and couldn't find an answer to this question. I have friends that are all of the sudden "keg experts" since I just built my own kegerator.

Many of the things that they claim to know I can argue the correct point, but one that I don't really know much about is the "if you have too much CO2 you will have a bad hangover" or "beer on tap will give you more of a headache than bottle's". Can anyone shed some light on this subject for me?

Thanks,

They may be partially right, but not because of why they think they're right. Your friends have most likely have experienced the effects of drinking tap beer from unsanitary taps, as keg line sanitation has a noticeable effect on the aftereffects of beer consumption.

[iamnick]

Your friends may also have in mind a study like this one (http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/38/4/381) (just read the abstract) that indicates CO2 in champagne gives a higher BAC than degassed champagne does. High BAC doesn't necessarily mean hangover, but this may be what they had in mind.
Of course...beer is generally not consumed flat, so maybe they are under the impression that draft beer has a higher CO2 content. This, if one goes by the data collected regarding champagne, would raise one's BAC and, thus, contribute to a hangover.

[Richard English]

My own experience - personal, of course, but garnered over half a century of bibulous activity - is clear enough.

Draught beer (by which I mean cask-conditioned beer) does not give me a hangover, regardless of how much I consume. Cask-conditioned beer is, of course, almost completely flat with its carbon dioxide present only by virtue of its continuing fermentation.

Bottle-conditioned beer does not give me a hangover either although it is fizzier than cask-conditioned beer. However, the fizziness is different than that of brewery-conditioned bottled beers. The bubbles tend to be smaller and last much longer, although I don't know what is happening at the molecular level to cause this. Indeed, I left a bottle of Unibraue Maudite open one evening by mistake and, after a night's sleep I found that it was still perfectly drinkable, albeit rather warmer than ideal. Try that trick with a bottle of Dudweiser!

Brewery-conditioned bottled beer, especially from the likes of Dudweiser, Swiller and Curse, give me a headache and dyspepsia.

But the worst of all are what we in the UK tend to call tap, or keg, beers. These are the fizzy concoctions served at ice-cold temperature from gaudy fonts, complete with tight, foaming heads. One or two of those and I go home sober and wake up with a thumping headache.

Whether it's the carbon dioxide or whether its some other additives (cask and bottle-conditioned beers have no "foreign" additives) I know not. But I do know about the different effects on my body.

[toneyc]

It could be simply that it is easy to lose count of how many you've had when there are no bottles in the bin the next morning.

:)
Toney.

[Richard English]

As I said, "...One or two of those and I go home sober and wake up with a thumping headache...." I don't lose count after one or two pints - not even Imperial pints!

[sbv32]

Thanks for all the input.

Richard English, I guess I'm not familiar with cask-conditioned beer vs. keg beer. If I brew my own and allow the keg to self carbonating and not force carbonating it would that be considered cask-conditioned. Also, in the UK do you not use CO2 to push your beer out of the tap?

bigben, I like this idea. I will give this a try Friday night.

iamnick, thanks for the info. So this could point to the fact that if I am over-carbonating my beer it may up the BAC causing someone to get tipsy quicker.

Interesting, unsanitary taps giving a headache. I never thought of that.

[Richard English]

Originally posted by sbv32

Richard English, I guess I'm not familiar with cask-conditioned beer vs. keg beer. If I brew my own and allow the keg to self carbonating and not force carbonating it would that be considered cask-conditioned. Also, in the UK do you not use CO2 to push your beer out of the tap?

1. The beer you make is cask-conditioned as it continues to ferment in your keg. Were it not still fermenting it would go flat and quickly turn to vinegar.

2. Cask-conditioned beer in pubs in the UK is generally drawn from the cellar by suction pumps. colloquially known as "beer engines". No carbon dioxide is used either to dispense or to carbonate the brew. We do have beer served by extraneous carbon dioxide pressure (or sometimes nitrogen pressure). It varies from poor to foul. - just as does the US equivalent produced by the likes of Dudweiser, Swiller and Curse. Avoid any such beers in English pubs!

[D0nc0smic]

I believe that part of the reason that cask and bottle conditioned beers leave less of a hangover is from the extra nutrition from the leftover yeast that exists in them. And its a real shame that there are no decent "keg" beers in england, as in recent years there have been alot of them over in the US,(though i do tend to like the cask conditioned versions of these same beers better.) and these don't really even give me a hangover unless i SERIOUSLY overindulge, so i think it is more likely the additives in low quality beer that cause a hangover rather than the artificial CO2

[steveh]

Originally posted by Richard English
I don't lose count after one or two pints - not even Imperial pints!

I don't think Toney's reply was directed to you Richard, but to the freeloading friends of SBV.

Does "gaudy" have a different definition in the U.K. than the U.S?

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by sbv32
do you not use CO2 to push your beer out of the tap?


And since you probably do use CO2 to dispense your home-brew, you run some risk of your beer absorbing that "artificial" carbonation. Depending, of course, on how long your beer lasts.

Don has a theory I've often subscribed to -- nothing better on a cool morning in Munich than a Hefeweizen at the Schneiderhaus to start your new day!

S.

[sbv32]

freeloading friends
Now that's no joke....They sure do keep drinking as they act like they know what they are talking about.

And since you probably do use CO2 to dispense your home-brew, you run some risk of your beer absorbing that "artificial" carbonation.
Now the above is where I get confused on if you should leave the CO2 on at all times or just some of the time. With the research that I did on this site I came to the conclusion that it was alright to leave it on as long as you were close to equilibrium.

[steveh]

Originally posted by sbv32
With the research that I did on this site I came to the conclusion that it was alright to leave it on as long as you were close to equilibrium.

That may be up to your own experimentation and duration the beer is "on line." Most of the friends in my brew-club will take their beers off the CO2 and expell the leftover gas, then put the Corny-keg back in their fridge. As you can tell, few of them have kegerators.

S.

[Richard English]

Although there is ongoing discussion about this, CAMRA's present stance is that beer under an externally applied blanket of carbon dioxide, regardless of how low its pressure, is not "Real Ale". Their thinking is that such a blanket interferes with the proper fermentation of the live beer and can lead to an over-fizzy product.

Those who support an artificial blanket point out that the blanket will protect the beer which will thus last longer.

My own feeling is that, in a properly run pub, there's no need for a blanket since the beer will be sold sufficiently quickly for it always to be in condition.

[fretlessman71]

Or a properly attended pub. ;)

[Richard English]

I know what you are getting at - but I stick to my original phrase. If a pub is getting too few customers to drink the beer before it turns, then a well-run pub will reduce its stock.

This can be done by ordering fewer varieties of beer, smaller containers or a combination of these. It is one of the skills of a good landlord and one which, I fear, is all too often lacking - even in England.

One of the reasons why chemical fizz became popular was that it allowed lazy landlords to do away with proper cellar-craft and thus save money on staff and training costs. Chemical fizz kegs can be connected to their fonts, turned on and dispensed immediately. They can be kept for weeks and weeks and used until they run out - when another keg can be connected.

The fact that the drink tastes foul mattered not to those landlords who put profit before their customers.

As I have said many times before, in the 1960s and 70s this was happening all over the world, even in the UK. It is only due to CAMRA's founding and campaigning that we now have the wonderful range of beers we do.

And make no mistake: the fizz factories are ready to pounce if ever we let our guards drop. In the UK only around 10% of beer sold is cask-conditioned; in the USA only around 3% of the beer sold is "craft" and only a small proportion of that is cask-conditioned. The battle against the tide of chemical fizz is far from over.

[Jeff]

Originally posted by Richard English
And make no mistake: the fizz factories are ready to pounce if ever we let our guards drop. In the UK only around 10% of beer sold is cask-conditioned; in the USA only around 3% of the beer sold is "craft" and only a small proportion of that is cask-conditioned. The battle against the tide of chemical fizz is far from over.

Craft beer in the US now makes up 5% of total dollar sales and if you read the definition of craft beer it excludes many larger brewers that make a quality drink. I would bet the US is much closer to 10% "craft" beer sales.

http://www.beertown.org/email/ba/midyear2007.htm

[sbv32]

a properly run pub, there's no need for a blanket since the beer will be sold sufficiently quickly for it always to be in condition
I see what you are saying here but this is a problem for us that have a system at our home. I just buy the 1/6th barrel and they last about a month.

Most of the friends in my brew-club will take their beers off the CO2 and expel the leftover gas, then put the Corny-keg back in their fridge.
So when they go to hook it back up won't the beer be flat since the CO2 in the beer was allowed to escape?

[bigben]

no because the beer is still carbonated but you just leave the pressure off. I actually keep mine hooked up all the time at 10 psi for my kegerator.

[Richard English]

Originally posted by Jeff
Craft beer in the US now makes up 5% of total dollar sales and if you read the definition of craft beer it excludes many larger brewers that make a quality drink. I would bet the US is much closer to 10% "craft" beer sales.

http://www.beertown.org/email/ba/midyear2007.htm My figures were for year end 2005 and it's good to see that the craft bear sales have increased.

But there is no call to be complacent; 5% is still a very small and delicate plant to nurture. The larger brewers' contribution can probably be ignored; they will go where the money is.

[Jeff]

Originally posted by Richard English
My figures were for year end 2005 and it's good to see that the craft bear sales have increased.

But there is no call to be complacent; 5% is still a very small and delicate plant to nurture. The larger brewers' contribution can probably be ignored; they will go where the money is.

My info was not to argue that life is good, but to simply correct the figures.

I would disagree regarding the larger "craft" brewers. Sierra Nevada, Red Hook and maybe even Goose Island fall outside the range of craft.

[darylM]

Since we are talking about craft beer. I have always had a problem with the name. I see the sudden surge in beer as a rediscovering of styles that have been there for hundreds of years. What is the definition of a "craft" beer?

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by darylM
Since we are talking about craft beer. I have always had a problem with the name. I see the sudden surge in beer as a rediscovering of styles that have been there for hundreds of years. What is the definition of a "craft" beer?

Best of luck on that one. Ask 10 different brewers, you're likely to get 10 different answers.

The Brewers Association definition includes a section on independence (less than 25% owned by a non-craft brewer) which excludes some breweries which make quality beer and don't seem to be influenced by their partners.

http://www.beertown.org/education/craft_defined.html

[hooky]

I'd also look at this page at beertown

http://www.beertown.org/craftbrewing/statistics.html

Craft beer industry definitions

The craft beer industry is defined by four distinct markets—brewpub, microbreweries, regional craft breweries and contract brewing companies.

CRAFT BREWER: An American craft brewer is small, independent and traditional.

Small = annual production of beer less than 2 million barrels. Beer production is attributed to a brewer according to the rules of alternating proprietorships. Flavored malt beverages are not considered beer for purposes of this definition.

Independent = Less than 25% of the craft brewery is owned or controlled (or equivalent economic interest) by an alcoholic beverage industry member who is not themselves a craft brewer.

Traditional = A brewer who has either an all malt flagship (the beer which represents the greatest volume among that brewers brands) or has at least 50% of its volume in either all malt beers or in beers which use adjuncts to enhance rather than lighten flavor.

CRAFT BEER : Craft beers are produced with 100 % barley or wheat malt or use other fermentable ingredients that enhance (rather than lighten) flavor.

Microbrewery: A brewery that produces less than 15,000 barrels (17,600 hectoliters) of beer per year with 75% or more of its beer off site. Microbreweries sell to the public by one or more of the following methods: the traditional three-tier system (brewer to wholesaler to retailer to consumer); the two-tier system (brewer acting as wholesaler to retailer to consumer); and, directly to the consumer through carryouts and/or on-site tap-room or restaurant sales.

Brewpub: A restaurant-brewery that sells 25% or more of its beer on site. The beer is brewed primarily for sale in the restaurant and bar. The beer is often dispensed directly from the brewery's storage tanks. Where allowed by law, brewpubs often sell beer "to go" and /or distribute to off site accounts. Note: BA re-categorizes a company as a microbrewery if its off-site (distributed) beer sales exceed 75 percent.

Contract Brewing Company: A business that hires another brewery to produce its beer. It can also be a brewery that hires another brewery to produce additional beer. The contract brewing company handles marketing, sales, and distribution of its beer, while generally leaving the brewing and packaging to its producer-brewery (which, confusingly, is also sometimes referred to as a contract brewery).

Regional Brewery: A brewery with an annual beer production of between 15,000 and 2,000,000 barrels.

Regional Craft Brewery: An independent regional brewery who has either an all malt flagship or has at least 50% of it's volume in either all malt beers or in beers which use adjuncts to enhance rather than lighten flavor.

Updated 4/13/07

[sbv32]

good stuff

Thanks hooky