Winter Community Brew?

[JayShaw91]

Well? So what's the plan, peeps? I know the summer looks like just a few got in on things, but why not try this again?

It's winter so we should choose from something big like a...
Stout
Porter
Christmas Ale

The same rules should apply. We decide on one recipe and the participants plan on sending 3 samples of two bottles to three fellow brewers. In return, you get 6 bottles; two each from three brewers.

We comment on each other's brews and hopefully learn something!

Please post if you want in on this. I'm going to be starting my 4th and 5th batches of brew soon so it's the right time for me to get plans in order for something like this.

Deadline could be... New Years? Jan 15? That'd give a lot of time to get something prepped, brewed, and time to age in secondary and at least a month of bottle aging.

[sbv32]

Will this be a brew that we agree on the ingredients, or is it make your own.

[JayShaw91]

If you read the other community brew thread, it'll be a generalized list of agreed upon ingredients. I.e. 2 row barley and Cascade hops, but your choice of brand, simply out of ease.

Please go read at least the beginning of the other Community Brew thread to get the gist of what I'm after here. It's a TON of pages, so unless you're bored, don't read it all :)

[sbv32]

well im at work so i am bored......Ton of pages, here I come!!

[dparsons]

I'd be up for a Stout or a Christmas Ale.

My only thought is we either need to follow through on a bottle mailing this time or set up a tasting notes session for the group. The last brew was great but it needed a good finish for the project.

[JayShaw91]

Well, it looks we'll just have to follow through with it then, huh?

We're in mid-Sept now. Even if it's just 5 of us, let's do this.

So stout or Christmas Ale? Make your vote. Also, I'm still a bit of a n00b (sorry to whomever gets my beer! :) ) so if someone can start taking the con on building a recipe (extract, mini, and full mash), let's get that done.

I'm thinking we need this in primary by the end of this month. That'd leave 2+ months of secondary, plus 2 weeks to a month to bottle condition, leading us right up to New Year's.

[Saint-Thomas]

I'd say we need a little more time to plan it than just a few weeks. However, two months is plenty of time to brew these. If we shoot for a ship date of Jan 1, I think it will work out just fine.

It would be nice to get the kit put together again, but not sure how much effort that would take. Maybe we could design the recipe based on the stock of one online supplier? By this I mean the specific malts. For example, we could pick NorthernBrewer.com since they are fairly central and select the grain bill from their inventory. That way everyone would get the same ingredients if they shopped there. I'm not advocating one store over another (I actually order from CA most of the time), so any suggestions are welcome. I was quite happy with Austin Homebrew last time. We could go with them again.

I vote for a stout. Dry or sweet? I think we should not try for a imperial one simply because you really ought to make big starters for high gravity beers, and that's extra equipment some brewers won't have. So I can get some recipes together for a stout if we want that one.

What defines a Christmas beer? It's not one I have brewed nor do I drink many. I think I've only tried Sierra Nevada's, and I remember liking it. Does Winterhook count as a Christmas beer? I'd like to know more about this style, as I would like to try something new.

[Saint-Thomas]

RE: folowthrough

PaulCGI's auto emailer seemed to work out well for trading addresses on the ESB. But I do wish we had done everything on schedule and had an organized discussion of results. I do plan on doing my tasting soon and posting my findings, but it would be nice if there were a question form to fill out while tasting. I'm not exactly trained in beer tasting, as I'm sure most of us here are also not.

[The_Huisvrouw]

I just started a similar thread a moment ago soliciting suggestions/advice for my own winter brew (please! www.thuisgemaakt.blogspot.com). i love the idea of a beer exchange with fellow homebrewers. count me in if this goes through!

Jenny (the huisvrouw)

[Saint-Thomas]

Nice blog! I voted for Saffron Tripel. I liked the idea so much, I think I am going to do one next.

[mullet]

I'd be interested in getting in on this one I think. Stout sounds like an awesome idea.

[markaberrant]

You could pick one of these:

http://www.allaboutbeer.com/homebrew/22.6-twelvebeers.html

[JayShaw91]

OK, we've got support for a stout, so let's go that way.

I agree, no on the Imperial. Too much for some of us. We want this open to brewers of all levels, of course.

Here is a slightly off-beat idea. An Oatmeal Cookie stout. Yes, Oats will be in the stout, but add some ground ginger, cinnamon, and what not to give it more of a cookie flavor to go with the coffee-esque taste of the base stout.

Java Oatmeal Cookie Stout?

I have no idea how to craft this recipe, but this idea had just came to mind. Hell, if this gets vetoed I may have to try and figure out how to toss this together.

[JayShaw91]

My God, I just looked at that list. Yes, let's do something off of that. Holy cow those sound good *and* very different!

[Saint-Thomas]

The key to spicing is to keep it subtle. For five gallons I would add 1/2-1 gram each powdered ginger and cinnamon. If it turns out too strong, you can simply wait and it will age. After six months or so the spice won't be as assertive.

Stout is as easy as can be 70% two row pale malt, 20% flaked barley, and 10% roasted barley. have about 40 IBUs of EKG or fuggles or Norhtern Brewer hops for 60 min. Use your favorite English yeast. WLP002 would work well and has a higher attenuation, I believe, although I pretty much use 005 English ale since for ale english styles since we did the ESB. I like it. We could swap some of the flaked barley for oats. I like using the instant oatmeal from the grocer since you don't have to pre-cook it.

Based on that I could come up with an extract version. I need to do it after work tomorrow though.

[Saint-Thomas]

Originally posted by JayShaw91
My God, I just looked at that list. Yes, let's do something off of that. Holy cow those sound good *and* very different!
Oh I am very excited about the list! I plan on doing the Tripel, and maybe the quad. But I worry that the yeasts might be too complicated and unruly for some of us. You have to pitch a BIG starter and oxygenate well for those big beers. If we can all agree on it, I'd be down for trying almost anything from the list, but I definitely lean towards the Belgians and the barleywine.

[JayShaw91]

Well, we've got time, so concoct a recipe idea when you got a few.

We still need some feedback on what style, but I think we're looking at two votes for the Java Oatmeal Cookie Stout... unless I'm misunderstanding you, St. Tommy.

And yeah, after researching, most of those are going to be for the advanced/adventurous crowd. Too bad!

[Saint-Thomas]

Here's one slightly modified from my Espresso Porter. I dropped the roasted barley so as to not overpower the "cookie" flavors.

Oatmeal cookie stout

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

13-C Stout, Oatmeal Stout

Min OG: 1.048 Max OG: 1.065
Min IBU: 25 Max IBU: 48
Min Clr: 22 Max Clr: 60 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 10.50
Anticipated OG: 1.056 Plato: 13.90
Anticipated SRM: 51.6
Anticipated IBU: 34.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
66.7 7.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) Great Britain 1.038 3
9.5 1.00 lbs. Black Patent Malt Great Britain 1.027 525
9.5 1.00 lbs. Crystal 90L America 1.033 90
9.5 1.00 lbs. Flaked Oats America 1.033 2
4.8 0.50 lbs. Chocolate Malt Great Britain 1.034 475

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 oz. Northern Brewer Pellet 7.20 34.4 60 min.

Ground cinnamon 1/4 tsp or 1 gram add at flameout
Ground ginger 1/4 tsp or 1 gram add at flameout

Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP005 British Ale


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs: 10.50
Water Qts: 12.60 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 3.15 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.20 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 154 Time: 60
Mash-out Rest Temp : 168 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 0


Total Mash Volume Gal: 3.99 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.

[Saint-Thomas]

For extract replace the 2-row with 5.5 pounds of pale liquid malt extract. Steep the rest of the grains for 30 minutes at 155f.


Not to throw a wrench in the works, but I all of a sudden got really excited about doing a pumpkin beer. Just thought I'd throw that out to see if we might want to try it instead. I would probably want very light spicing on this. No cinnamon, or cloves.

Either way, I'm happy doing a cookie stout.

[BrewDog]

Count me in-

Taking out the roasted barley makes it more of a robust porter than a stout, though.

[Ooompa Loompa]

I'm definately in. I was just reading through the last community brew thread last night, and was thinking how it would be cool to be involved if another one came up. And Java Oatmeal Stout sounds incredible.

[mullet]

I'm reasonably new to all grain, and I haven't done a stout yet, so I'm not really sure how good I'd be at the recipe evaluation stuff, but a full pound of black patent sounds like a lot to me. I thought patent was used sparingly, even in stouts?

[Saint-Thomas]

Whoops! Mullet: You are correct. Too much black patent malt. I was translating from my chicken scratch notes and had the amounts colmun didn't line up with the grains column. That and I was changing it on the fly. The 1 pound amount was for the roasted barley in the original recipe.
Brewdog: My thoughts were that the roasted flavor would be too acrid for this. But you are right, we ought to have some in there. That much black patent would be just as bad.

Lemme try again.

Added roasted barley but only 5% instead of 10%. Upped the chocolate a bit.



Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
68.3 7.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) Great Britain 1.038 3
9.8 1.00 lbs. Crystal 90L America 1.033 90
9.8 1.00 lbs. Flaked Oats America 1.033 2
7.3 0.75 lbs. Chocolate Malt Great Britain 1.034 475
4.9 0.50 lbs. Roasted Barley America 1.028 450

[Tom C]

I am game and actually have an oatmeal stout, based off of a cloned young's recipe, in a secondary that is up and ready...how do I sign up?

Tom C

[brewmasterash]

Count me in this time. I am down for the Stout. Do we just get settled on a recipe, brew it, and then discuss shipment procedures or what?

Ash

[Saint-Thomas]

Ash, If we are following the same guidelines as the last go-around, then we settle on a recipe. The grains/extracts, hops and yeasts are all the same. Our brew water, procedures and equipment will all be different. We would then trade 2 beers to three people and get 6 in return. Last time we signed up via a program written by paulcgi, and I believe that worked out pretty well. At least in my experience.

[vw addict]

Last time I made the ESB twice, but kegged it both times. I should have participated in the bottling, maybe this time????

[paulcgi]

let me know how this thing goes. I'd be happy to sorta reset the website and keep it up for continued use of the email feature. It is setup right now for (I think) three people. As soon as 3 people have their data in, it sends email to all with address for the exchange. I can change the code to have 4 people or whatever. I'll have to go take a look at how many were in for the old one. Also, for those who read this, I was going to clear out that DB.. anybody still need to use it?


edit: looks like a whopping 5 people used my registration page. BUT the caveat to that is that each person has the ability to delete themselves. there could have been a couple more who removed their info after they were done

[mullet]

Where does the java flavor come from? Is there coffee going into the brew somewhere, or is it just due to the reasonably high amounts of roasted malts?

[Saint-Thomas]

hmm... we could add coffee, but I've seen strong opinions come into play regarding the best way to add it. I like to brew espresso and use it in the primary. A cold infusion of coffee essence might also be good. But I think it might be easier to leave it out and count on the grains to offer up coffee notes.

[JayShaw91]

Yeah, I did reading on the coffee addition and it's varied on the opinion.

Maybe we leave that as the only variable in the recipe? Me, I was thinking of adding it in secondary :)

I was thinking we would be adding the coffee.

[Saint-Thomas]

I vote no on coffee because it is such a wild card. Coffees vary as much or more as beers and are incredibly complex in flavor. There's no way we will all agree on the best way to utilize it, nor can we reasonably control such utilization with any consistency. It would defeat the purpose of the trade if we are trying to see what the differences in water and procedure makes.

However, it is a yummy idea, and should be explored. You could split the batch and add coffee to half. We could also do a trade where we all brew our own recipe. But for this one, I vote to leave the coffee out.

[mullet]

The lack of coffee is fine by me, I'm not really a huge coffee fan anyway. I was mostly just curious, where it was being called an Oatmeal Java Stout, if there was any coffee in it or not. The trading any other brew as well sounds interesting as well, could be something to look into maybe.

[JayShaw91]

OK, the masses have spoken and no coffee. I very well may split the batch and do some with/without for my own educational purposes, but that won't affect our little game here.

So, when do we start this? Is the recipe agreed upon/finalized? I am thinking we should get started on this rather soon.

[Saint-Thomas]

For your consideration: Jamil Zanisheff's award winning Oatmeal Stout recipe. We could brew this and add the spices. What do you guys think?

Add: 1/4t sp ground cinnamon, 1/4 tsp ground ginger at flameout to:

Jamil's Oatmeal Stout

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 10.75
Anticipated OG: 1.058 Plato: 14.39
Anticipated SRM: 34.2
Anticipated IBU: 35.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 5.88 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.050 SG 12.32 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
72.9 7.83 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) Great Britain 1.038 3
7.8 0.83 lbs. Flaked Oats America 1.033 2
5.8 0.63 lbs. Chocolate Malt America 1.029 350
5.8 0.63 lbs. Victory Malt America 1.034 25
3.9 0.42 lbs. Crystal 80L 1.033 80
3.9 0.42 lbs. Roasted Barley America 1.028 450

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.50 oz. Goldings- East Kent Pellet 5.00 35.4 60 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP002 English Ale


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs: 10.75
Water Qts: 16.77 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 4.19 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.56 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 154 Time: 60
Mash-out Rest Temp : 168 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 60


Total Mash Volume Gal: 5.05 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.

[BrewDog]

I know Otis has a good Oatmeal Raisin Cookie stout recipe. Maybe something that merges them together?

Just a thought?

[Saint-Thomas]

Otis to the thread!
I know somebody here has his recipe. Corky?

[Kiltlifter]

Originally posted by JayShaw91
[B]OK, the masses have spoken and no coffee. I very well may split the batch and do some with/without for my own educational purposes, but that won't affect our little game here.
Late to the discussion but DARN! I am planning on doing an Espresso Oatmeal Stout this winter so it would have dovetailed in perfectly. Guess I'll just have to brew it on my own.

[Saint-Thomas]

I'm still for splitting my batch and adding coffee.

[Mill Rat]

Originally posted by Saint-Thomas
I'm still for splitting my batch and adding coffee. Watch yourself, the CommBrewPol are vigilant!

[rKeyTek]

been reading this thread and the last community thread and I'm in for this, haven't made a stout yet (not my first choice to drink) so there is no better reason or timing!

Lets get this finalized so we can start brewing and have a decent aging/ conditioning time....

I'm excited to be able to taste others brews and see the differences

[dparsons]

I think Jamil's recipe posted by Saint-Thomas has a better grain balance than the previous suggestions. We could tweak it but I think there is a lot of possibility with a Stout as to how much of what grains you add and we could go on for a while.

I'm not sure on the hop quantity. At an OG of 1.058, 35 IBU's is slightly hoppy. If were going to add the spices, perhaps we want less hops? I haven't done a spiced beer, so I'm not positive.

I like using WLP005 a little better - more attenuation. If we add unfermentables and mash at 154 we'll get a the sweet and malty characteristics even without a low attenuation yeast.


I also like the Gingerbread Ale recipe. It actually has a low enough recipe that we could do it.

[mullet]

What happened to this? It seems to have ran out of steam all of a sudden. Is it still going to happen?

[BrewBabe]

The excitment seems to have dried up. Sounds like the first community brew never came to fruition either. Oh well...

[mullet]

Really? I thought that the first one got done? I don't see why this one can't be done either. There seems to be a recipe at least...

[Saint-Thomas]

hey I'm still up for it. I think plenty of folks brewed the last one, but few traded. Or at least not many have spoken about their trades. But we still brewed a good beer together, whether it was shared or not.
Let's do Jamil's recipe, minus 0.5 oz hops with the spice additions like Dparsons suggested?

I can work out a LME version too.

[BrewBabe]

Has anyone started this? My club is planning our next brew and we were thinking of a Chrstmas Stout. We'd like to share if you guys are up for it.

[mullet]

Well, sort of at the same time as this thread was going on, I had just gotten my proper AG setup built and was anxious to do a brew in it, and I was going to do a stout anyway. Then this didn't really go anywhere, so I just brewed it. It isn't really a Christmas stout, but it should be ready around Christmas. :confused:

[Saint-Thomas]

Well, initially I had a lot of enthusiasm, but I've petered out. Work has me covered up 7 days a week until christmas. So I guess I'm out. Sorry guys. I really want to brew something, but I suppose I will just have to wait until winter.

[paulcgi]

just something to keep in mind, too, is cost

I sent out 3 packs of beer (community brew and some local beers, amounting to a 6'er total) and the cost was almost $50 for the three packages. (UPS)

[mullet]

That's a good point.