Water News

[Fast_Eddy]

I called my water company earlier this week and got a water analysis. It confirms what I've expected - my water is LOADED with bicarbonate - like high side Dublin loaded. It explains why when I use only my tap water that my dark beers are great and my light ones used to have a bite to them. I kinda guessed this so I've been used mostly purified water for light colored beers for a long while now.

Well at least I know exactly how to manage it now. I have to say that it was remarkably easy to get the information, though.

[Jeff]

I just looked up my city's water report and did not find any category for bicarbonates. Are there certain contaminants you should look for that make up bicarbonates? Sorry to ask the dumb question but just wondering.

[Fast_Eddy]

Bicarbonates(HCO3--) are present in water in high concentrations usually as a result of the water flowing over limestone or similar.

Bicarbonates are created when free hydrogen combines with carbonate(CO3).

Post the link to your cities water.

[Jeff]

Here is a link to my city's water report:

Lincoln Water System (http://www.ci.lincoln.ne.us/city/pworks/water/safewtr.pdf)

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by Jeff
Here is a link to my city's water report:

Lincoln Water System (http://www.ci.lincoln.ne.us/city/pworks/water/safewtr.pdf)

Use the conversions at the bottom of this page
http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-1.html

and use the chart on the bottom right of page three of your water report to calculate your bicarbonate level.

[brewmonkey]

Hey Fast Eddy- That is a great tool. I am going to copy it and sticky it to the top of the how to forum. Great tool for everyone!

[Fast_Eddy]

My HC03 is 228 mg/L with relatively low Ca 46.8 - so sad. Also on the low end for Na and SO4. My approach for now is going to be:

1) 4/5 tap water and add gypsum or CaCl (or split both) for stout/porter style

2) 1/2 - 3/5 tap water for browns/pale ales and add gypsum or CaCl (or split both)

3) 1/5 (or less) tap water for helles/pils/light lager and some gypsum or CaCl (or split both)

I'll see how this works for me for a while. I've been making great beers lately but I know I can do better.

[Jeff]

Thanks Fast Eddy for the info. I haven't done in calculations yet, but that is what work is for right?

[BucksBrew]

I have a well and we treat our water with a UV light to eliminate microbes, etc. Plus we have an Acid Neutralizer to get our PH to 7.

My question is when water is boiled for your strike water does it lower the PH? Reason is Palmer states that an ideal Ph is around 5-5.2, I think. Does this happen because of the grains or the boiling? I'm thinking the grains do this.

Which brings me to my point of adding my 2nd batch of water to the cooler to sparge with. Should I adjust the PH down to match the first batch of wort or will the grains lower it anyway?

Thanks, soon to be first time all grainer!

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by BucksBrew
I have a well and we treat our water with a UV light to eliminate microbes, etc. Plus we have an Acid Neutralizer to get our PH to 7.

My question is when water is boiled for your strike water does it lower the PH? Reason is Palmer states that an ideal Ph is around 5-5.2, I think. Does this happen because of the grains or the boiling? I'm thinking the grains do this.

Which brings me to my point of adding my 2nd batch of water to the cooler to sparge with. Should I adjust the PH down to match the first batch of wort or will the grains lower it anyway?

Thanks, soon to be first time all grainer!

I wonder what the neutralizer does.

Most grains will lower the mash pH naturally. pH affects extraction primarily. I would not spend a lot of time worrying about pH and mineral content on my first batch. Some guys never find it necessary at all.

---This is your first all grain - I would probably disregard most of what comes after this line.

You are supposed to check your mash pH about 10-15 minutes after you dough in(add the grain). If the pH is too high then you can add gypsum(not more 1 tsp) or CaCl2 to lower the pH further. Gypsum works with compounds that are present in the grains to lower pH further lower pH and it provides some compounds that help hop crispness. Calcium chloride lowers pH by a similar mechanism but contributes chloride which produces a softer, rounder tasting beer. If the pH were still way out of line you could add some phosphoric or lactic acid to the mash to lower it further.

You should bring sparge pH down to 5.2-5.4 before sparging with it. Too high pH and/or too high sparge temp contribute to the dreaded tannin leaching(although some milds deliberately have a little grainy astringency).

[BucksBrew]

I can handle this! haha

I'll check the PH after 10 minutes and add gypsum or Lactic acid which I have on order.

Thanks again.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by BucksBrew
I can handle this! haha

I'll check the PH after 10 minutes and add gypsum or Lactic acid which I have on order.

Thanks again.

Note - you can't lower the pH of the sparge water by adding CaSO4 or CaCl2. You have to acidify the sparge water to lower the pH. I figure you know this already but I couldn't bear the thought of you cussin' me out while you're standing there adding half a pound of gypsum to the sparge water and the pH isn't changing.

[BucksBrew]

I have this instructional video from Midwest that I got when I received a starter kit for Xmas last year.

In it they use gypsum I think either in the mash or the strike water and Lactic or Phosporic acid in thesparge water.

Is that correct?

Thanks.

[brewmonkey]

We use phosphoric acid or lactic acid in both the strike and sparge water. The city water we use here runs the range of 8.5-9.3 for pH so we need to get it to as close to 7 as we can for dough in and the mash will naturally take it down to the 5.1 range for me. The hot liquor we adjust to get as close to the mash pH as we can.

Sadly our city only tests the water for publication once a year (in April) and all my efforts to bribe them for a monthly report have gone unanswered. Since we get our water off the river and it is sand filtered we have found higher bicarbonate levels, especially in the spring when we get runoff from the mountains up north. I rarely add anything like gypsum to the mash as we are trying to create our own "local profile".

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by BucksBrew
I have this instructional video from Midwest that I got when I received a starter kit for Xmas last year.

In it they use gypsum I think either in the mash or the strike water and Lactic or Phosporic acid in thesparge water.

Is that correct?

Thanks.

You should not acidify or add gypsum to the strike water, unless it's a recipe that you know the exact behaviour of with your water. The reason is because the grains themselves can(and usually will) lower the pH. Too low pH is a problem too as amylases begin to denature if pH goes too low.

[BucksBrew]

I read the 2 above replys. Seems the mash naturally lowers the PH, what about the 2nd adding of hot water to the grains, should that PH be adjusted with Lactic Acid? Seems like Brewmonkey is saying too.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by BucksBrew
I read the 2 above replys. Seems the mash naturally lowers the PH, what about the 2nd adding of hot water to the grains, should that PH be adjusted with Lactic Acid? Seems like Brewmonkey is saying too.

Do you mean the sparge water or an infusion?

In general I'd say that any water that is added to the mash should have a similar or matching pH just to avoid raising the mash pH. I use phosphoric acid.

[BucksBrew]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
Do you mean the sparge water or an infusion?

In general I'd say that any water that is added to the mash should have a similar or matching pH just to avoid raising the mash pH. I use phosphoric acid.

The sparge water, that's what I'm talking about. I'll adjust that to match the Ph of the wort that was already pulled out of the cooler(grain bed)..

Thanks for all the help.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by BucksBrew
The sparge water, that's what I'm talking about. I'll adjust that to match the Ph of the wort that was already pulled out of the cooler(grain bed)..

Thanks for all the help.

I don't want to be mis-leading....if the mash pH is 6.0(it's too high) I'd probably still acidify the sparge water down to 5.3. I meant similar iff the mash pH is in the right range.

[brewmonkey]

All water should be treated so that it has the correct pH level. I prefer to take my hotliquor during sparge to the same pH that the mash is at.

Most municipal water is going to be higher then 7, sparging with untreated water can and will effect your extract potential.

For mashing, if you are adjusting your water for pH and you still see some high pH's in the tun, look into adding a bit of acidulated/Saur malt. Weyermann's is one maltster who makes it and it can be sub'd directly for its equal weight of base grain. The other option is to mash in cold and land at 95F for a 15 minute rest before heading up to your mash temp. This is known as an acid rest and will help improve overall pH of the mash.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by brewmonkey
All water should be treated so that it has the correct pH level. I prefer to take my hotliquor during sparge to the same pH that the mash is at.

Most municipal water is going to be higher then 7, sparging with untreated water can and will effect your extract potential.

For mashing, if you are adjusting your water for pH and you still see some high pH's in the tun, look into adding a bit of acidulated/Saur malt. Weyermann's is one maltster who makes it and it can be sub'd directly for its equal weight of base grain. The other option is to mash in cold and land at 95F for a 15 minute rest before heading up to your mash temp. This is known as an acid rest and will help improve overall pH of the mash.

Good ole' phytase - the forgotten enzyme. I thought nearly everyone had abandoned acid rests in favor of using acid.

I'd never heard of "acidulated/Saur malt" - good tip.

[brewmonkey]

I went to an acid rest after we got a lot of malt where we had efficiency problems and we noticed that we were having higher then normal mash pH. I used the acidulated malt at first but at a few cents more per lb X the amount we needed it was not cost effective if there was an equal solution. We switched to the acid rests and the efficiency problems went away.