Beer in Vienna and Prague

[Kalleh1]

I will be in Vienna next week and Prague the following week. I have my appropriate travel books, but I'm wondering if anyone here knows either the kinds of beer I should order or of some good pubs to visit. Thanks!

[BrewDog]

LUCKY YOU!

Prague- Bohemian Pilsner is THE style. Budvar, Pilsner Urquell, others. I'd take a look at this thread (http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14222).

Vienna- Great question. Vienna Lager would seem the obvious choice, but it apparently does not dominate the region any more. Ray Daniels says in his book that the only place to get a reasonably decent commercial Vienna Lager these days is in Mexico (Negra Modelo). Granted, that book is now >12 years old. I wonder if the same is still true over there? I know that Gordon Biersch brews a nice Vienna Lager that I've had in the past.


HTH-

[Sladek]

I've asked a friend in Vienna about "Vienna lager" with a more detailed description of what the style is, and he didn't know what the hell I was talking about. When I was there, I saw Czech beers and generic German Pils.

In Prague, of course, just ask for "pivo" and you will invariably get a pilsner, unless you specifically say, "černé pivo".

[Richard English]

I was disappointed with the beer when I was in Austria - although I was agreeably surprised by the wine.

You'll surely do better in the Czech Republic which country has a massive range of fine beers. I'd be inclined to wander the bars and ask the bartenders until you find one who knows the score. Then stick to his or her advice as to the beers to try and the beers to avoid.

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by Richard English
I'd be inclined to wander the bars and ask the bartenders until you find one who knows the score. Then stick to his or her advice as to the beers to try and the beers to avoid.

that's excellent advice no matter where you are. I was in Houston a couple weeks ago and found myself at the Richmond Arms. There was a great bartender (from London, no less) who was ready to lead me through the offerings and provide small samples of many before ordering a half-pint of the ones I wanted to sit with a while.

[Richard English]

Good to learn that London's training its sons so well ;)

[steveh]

Originally posted by Richard English
I was disappointed with the beer when I was in Austria

You must not have made it to Augustiner Salzburg -- wonderful.

S.

[Richard English]

I concede that I was only there for a few days at a Convention and had little time to spare for beer research.

[goose5]

I have been surprised at the quality of Austrian beers. Two friends of mine lived in Vienna for a few years. They brought back some of the beer. The best beer I have ever had was Zipfer Urtyp. Also look for Gosser, Skol, Puntigamer, Schwechater, Wieselburger, Stiegl, and Ottokringer Gold Fassl. You will love them all. Austria is a small country so start on one end and drink you way to the other side, and than eat your way back.

[Kalleh1]

I found a computer here in Vienna, and I wanted to thank all of you for your suggestions. I've been limited by the language and the beers available, but the beer they have in this hotel I really like. The man told me that each year they make it, it tastes a bit different. When I find my notes, I will let you know what it is.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by goose5
I have been surprised at the quality of Austrian beers. Two friends of mine lived in Vienna for a few years. They brought back some of the beer. The best beer I have ever had was Zipfer Urtyp. Also look for Gosser, Skol, Puntigamer, Schwechater, Wieselburger, Stiegl, and Ottokringer Gold Fassl. You will love them all. Austria is a small country so start on one end and drink you way to the other side, and than eat your way back.

I agree that some of those are decent and some mundane. In the late 1970s several like the Gosser Golden Rock and Gold Fassl were available in the States. Isn't Trummer's from Salzburg? When I was last in Wein I probably drank more Budvar than anything else.

[steveh]

Kalleh: "Ein Bier bitte." "Ein mehr Bier Bitte." "Danke."

All the German you need.

S.

[goose5]

Originally posted by chazwicke
I agree that some of those are decent and some mundane. In the late 1970s several like the Gosser Golden Rock and Gold Fassl were available in the States. Isn't Trummer's from Salzburg? When I was last in Wein I probably drank more Budvar than anything else.

While Budvar was my friends favorite. Gosser did try the export market with some pretty lack-luster efforts. Gosser Gold is a prime example. However, I found the Gosser Marzen and Spezial to be excellent beers.

[dparsons]

Welcome aboard goose.

[Kalleh1]

Well, I am back, though a little time lagged so I can't find my notes on the Vienna beer I had, but when I do, I will post about them.

In Prague I had their Staropramen, which was often on tap and rather light. The good Czech beer, though, was Eggenberg. It is brewed in this picturesque little village (Cesky Kremlov) about 3 1/2 hours outside of Prague. It was delightful!

What do you guys think of Budvar? That was available on the trains, and I didn't mind it at all. It sure beats our Budvar!

[Sladek]

I quite like Eggenberg and Krumlov--I've been there 3-4 times, I can't remember any more. I have fond memories of the Eggenberg brewery pub.
By the way, recognize Krumlov in the film "The Illusionist"?

It is possible to have good Staropramen--the best I've had is at an unassuming bar in the south of Prague. Some pubs take pride in how they handle their beer. I was truly surprised how good it was. Also, at the Staropramen brewery in Smíchov the pub on-premises has unfiltered točené (draught).

[Kalleh1]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I did like the Staropramen that I had. It was often on tap, and I always chose it. But I thought the Eggenberg superior. I haven't seen "The Illusionist," but I will now! I loved that village (which I see I misspelled!).

The beer that I liked (a lot!) in Vienna was Reininghaus Jahrgangspils. That's the one the bartender said turns out differently each year it's brewed. The other they had on tap at this bar was Zipfer Urtyp, which was a bit light for me.

[Pivo Prosim]

Originally posted by Kalleh1
Well, I am back, though a little time lagged so I can't find my notes on the Vienna beer I had, but when I do, I will post about them.

In Prague I had their Staropramen, which was often on tap and rather light. The good Czech beer, though, was Eggenberg. It is brewed in this picturesque little village (Cesky Kremlov) about 3 1/2 hours outside of Prague. It was delightful!

What do you guys think of Budvar? That was available on the trains, and I didn't mind it at all. It sure beats our Budvar!

Kalleh1,

Really sorry I haven't been here in a while and missed your post.

Forget about Staropramen. It's watery big factory beer. Only good on hot summer days when there's nothing else. Not horrible, it's just that there's much better to be found.

If you want great beer in Prague, remember the words: 'kvasnicove' = unfiltered yeastbeer, 'tankovna' = unpasteurized beer, and 'minipivovar'= microbrewery.

On that note, I heartily recommend the following places for your next trip (please pardon my possible Czech spelling mistakes):

U Medvidku near Narodni Trida metro: here you'll find the only kvasnicove Budvar in town and the 14' red OldGott Barrique upstairs is great but slightly pricey. The fresh Budvar dark is also heavenly.

Hrom do Policka near Jiriho z Podebrad metro: The only place in Prague that has this great beer from Central CZ. 11' and 12' kvasnicove light and a delicious black 10' lager. Tasty food too. One of my favorite places in Praha. A little smokey sometimes though, but worth it.

Pivovarsky Klub near Florence metro: 6 types of beer on tap at all times (1-2 housebrews, 2-5 regional brands and special offerings). Good food, good service, nice atmosphere. Another one of my favorites. Also, a huge variety of Czech and Belgian bottled beers for sale. Their beerglass and bottle collection is worth the trip alone.

Pivovarsky Dum near Karlovo Namesti metro: Kvasnicove beer plus too many others (special flavors) to list. Check the website. Good service and top drawer traditional Czech cuisine without high prices.

Sladek made good recommendations for tasting the best Pilsner Urquell in town. No arguments here although I might add U Pinkasu to the list. These are some of the places with the unpasteurized PU. Taste why its a legendary beer.

More later...... Cheers

[Pivo Prosim]

Originally posted by Sladek
I quite like Eggenberg and Krumlov--I've been there 3-4 times, I can't remember any more. I have fond memories of the Eggenberg brewery pub.
By the way, recognize Krumlov in the film "The Illusionist"?

It is possible to have good Staropramen--the best I've had is at an unassuming bar in the south of Prague. Some pubs take pride in how they handle their beer. I was truly surprised how good it was. Also, at the Staropramen brewery in Smíchov the pub on-premises has unfiltered tocené (draught).

Kalleh1: I'm a fan of Eggenberg also. It's a really enjoyable classic malty Czech lager. The 10' dark is enjoyable but a little thin for my taste. Bohemia Regent 12' and Svijany 13' are the dark beers I drool for. Harder to find but worth it. :-)

Sladek: Sorry to say but your Staropramen tour ain't what it used to be. Went there last year on a company trip and the serverka told me that all the beer served there is regular draft now. Thanks to the stainless steel tanks and computer controlled production processes, it all gets pasteurized and filtered. It's become a very soulless factory tour experience. :-(

[Kalleh1]

Oh...a true Pragueian (or whatever it's called!). My daughter and I would have loved meeting up with you. Oh well...next time.

While it was better than some of the other hotel beer, I have to agree with you about Staropramen; it worked when you wanted a beer and nothing else that good was available (Stella Artois). However, it surely was better than America's chemical fizz (as Richard calls it), such as Budweiser and Miller's.

[ratman03]

Originally posted by Pivo Prosim
Sladek: Sorry to say but your Staropramen tour ain't what it used to be.

How long ago was it what it used to be? I was in Prague a decade ago and remember Staropramen being pretty good.

[Pivo Prosim]

Originally posted by ratman03
How long ago was it what it used to be? I was in Prague a decade ago and remember Staropramen being pretty good.

Staropramen is a serviceable big brewer beer. It just has a very mainstream flavor to me. IMHO there are numerous other brands whose products have much more bang for the buck in the flavor department. If you ever come this way, let me know, and I'll be happy to introduce you to them.

As Kalleh said, Staropramen does beat the pants off Bud and Miller and such. I'll give it that much. If you get the chance, try Staropramen Granat their semi-dark beer. It's not bad at all. I wish I could try it unfiltered.

Also, today I went by their factory pub near the Andel metro station to confirm the info I had been given last year about the current unavailability of unfiltered versions of their products but unfortunately it's closed temporarily because of interior remodeling. I'll check back in a month.

[Pivo Prosim]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kalleh1
[B]Oh...a true Pragueian (or whatever it's called!). My daughter and I would have loved meeting up with you. Oh well...next time.

Actually I'm originally from San Diego but no matter.

The next time you come this way I'd be happy to give you and yours an insiders tour of all the best Praha and CZ have to offer.

PS: Funny you mentioned Stella Artois, it's now brewed in Prague at the Staropramen plant.

[Kalleh1]

Well that shows what I know! I thought Stella was a Belgium beer. It must be Belgium style beer. I don't even think I've ever tried it because everyone always tells me it's not much good.

By the way, we never tried the metro in Prague. We probably should have, but we never figured it out. We used their very unpredicable cabs (as cited in our tour books), and, yes, we got taken advantage of a few times. The Crown Czech didn't help much! We did use the metro all over Vienna, and I use it in Chicago so it's not that I am spoiled or anything.

A San Diegoan? That's why your English is so good! We came across a couple of surly Czech waiters, I must say. Our Czech wasn't all that good, and I can understand how annoying it must be for Americans to always expect English so it didn't bother us.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Kalleh1
Well that shows what I know! I thought Stella was a Belgium beer.

It is a Belgian beer (a Belgian Pilsener). But just as Bud is U.S. and Pilsner Urquell is Czech, they are being brewed abroad to meet the demand of popularity.

S.

[Richard English]

Originally posted by steveh
It is a Belgian beer (a Belgian Pilsener). But just as Bud is U.S. and Pilsner Urquell is Czech, they are being brewed abroad to meet the demand of popularity.

S. Indeed, Stella, along with Dudweiser is also brewed in England. Both are truly foul regardless of where they are brewed.

In Wetherspoons at Victoria last night I had the choice of a 330ml bottle of Dudweiser at £2.99 or an Imperial pint of cask-conditioned real ale for £2.10. Guess what I drank? Guess what most of the palate-deprived igorami were drinking?

[steveh]

Given a choice between Stella and better beer, yeah -- there's no choice. Given a choice between Stella, Leinenkugel, Miller High Life, or Miller Lite -- the Stella isn't looking so bad. It fits in a pinch sometimes, but it's not a regular.

S.

[Pivo Prosim]

Originally posted by Kalleh1
Well that shows what I know! I thought Stella was a Belgium beer. It must be Belgium style beer. I don't even think I've ever tried it because everyone always tells me it's not much good.

By the way, we never tried the metro in Prague. We probably should have, but we never figured it out. We used their very unpredicable cabs (as cited in our tour books), and, yes, we got taken advantage of a few times. The Crown Czech didn't help much! We did use the metro all over Vienna, and I use it in Chicago so it's not that I am spoiled or anything.

A San Diegoan? That's why your English is so good! We came across a couple of surly Czech waiters, I must say. Our Czech wasn't all that good, and I can understand how annoying it must be for Americans to always expect English so it didn't bother us.

Hearing about your experience I feel really bad I didn't see your original posting in time. Sorry about that! Wish I could've helped you.

Next time, use only AAA Taxi. They give you receipts and are true metered cabs with a good rep.

I can't believe you didn't use the Metro. Prague has a great system. So quick and easy. Next time, listen for English (it's everywhere-like Russian nowadays) and please ask someone. They won't bite you if you ask nice.

Czech servers are notoriously stoic. Don't pay any attention to it. It's not personal. Their smiles are for friends. It's not Wilma from Denny's for sure but they're cool to me since I've learned a little Czech. Learn a few basic words (dekuji=thank you) and watch your tab. Some waiters have interesting math skills.

Hope we meet up in the future. PP

[Pivo Prosim]

Originally posted by Richard English
Indeed, Stella, along with Dudweiser is also brewed in England. Both are truly foul regardless of where they are brewed.

In Wetherspoons at Victoria last night I had the choice of a 330ml bottle of Dudweiser at £2.99 or an Imperial pint of cask-conditioned real ale for £2.10. Guess what I drank? Guess what most of the palate-deprived igorami were drinking?

Hi Richard,

My wife and I really enjoyed our time in London last year. It's a wonderful city. So much to see and do. Too much maybe! Hah hah.

If I manage to return in the next year or two, it'd be an honor to meet up with you and learn more about real ales and the best places to enjoy them.

PP

[Richard English]

Originally posted by Pivo Prosim
Hi Richard,

My wife and I really enjoyed our time in London last year. It's a wonderful city. So much to see and do. Too much maybe! Hah hah.

If I manage to return in the next year or two, it'd be an honor to meet up with you and learn more about real ales and the best places to enjoy them.

PP
I'm sorry I missed you. I should be very pleased to meet you and yours the next time you're in the UK; I have met a number of those who post here and have always enjoyed the encounters.

[Sladek]

Originally posted by Pivo Prosim
Sladek: Sorry to say but your Staropramen tour ain't what it used to be. Went there last year on a company trip and the serverka told me that all the beer served there is regular draft now. Thanks to the stainless steel tanks and computer controlled production processes, it all gets pasteurized and filtered. It's become a very soulless factory tour experience. :-( Bummer...ah well, I've never liked Staropramen much anyway.

kalleh: "Pragers" (Czech "pražáci")

With luck we'll visit Prague in Dec or January with our kapustička (I hope before Christmas, so I can have some svařák!!)

[Pivo Prosim]

Originally posted by Richard English
I'm sorry I missed you. I should be very pleased to meet you and yours the next time you're in the UK; I have met a number of those who post here and have always enjoyed the encounters.

That's great Richard. I'm very pleased and will bring you, hopefully, from your perspective, flavorful treats from our little humble beer heaven.

John in Praha

[Pivo Prosim]

Originally posted by Sladek
Bummer...ah well, I've never liked Staropramen much anyway.

kalleh: "Pragers" (Czech "pražáci")

With luck we'll visit Prague in Dec or January with our kapustička (I hope before Christmas, so I can have some svařák!!)

Hope I can meet up with you too Sladek and drink the nice cloudy beer. Depending on timing, we may be in Ostrava though. Please send me a PM if you come this way.

[Sladek]

Originally posted by Pivo Prosim
Hope I can meet up with you too Sladek and drink the nice cloudy beer. Depending on timing, we may be in Ostrava though. Please send me a PM if you come this way. Will do man!
(I'm Dave, by the way; I call my daughter "kapustička" because of our surname)

Have you mentioned OldGott? I can't remember--I was really impressed by that. A bit pricey for .4L (about 50 kc) but DAMN GOOD.

[Pivo Prosim]

Originally posted by Sladek
Will do man!
(I'm Dave, by the way; I call my daughter "kapustička" because of our surname)

Have you mentioned OldGott? I can't remember--I was really impressed by that. A bit pricey for .4L (about 50 kc) but DAMN GOOD.

I look forward to meeting you Dave.

And boy do I have a couple of nice places to show you. Beers as good or better than OldGott for half the price. :-)

John v Praze

PS: Pray for me.

This Sunday I'll be spending the day in Plzen with a friend from Plzen. Most of the day will be drinking unfiltered Pilsner Urquell at the restaurant across from the brewery and tasting/testing Prazdroj's new 13' Master polotmavy and 18' dark. And I'm sure there will be a few surprises I don't know about yet. :-)

[Sladek]

Originally posted by Pivo Prosim

This Sunday I'll be spending the day in Plzen with a friend from Plzen. Most of the day will be drinking unfiltered Pilsner Urquell at the restaurant across from the brewery and tasting/testing Prazdroj's new 13' Master polotmavy and 18' dark. And I'm sure there will be a few surprises I don't know about yet. :-) Ježiši Kriste!
I've been to that place--"U pivovaru", nebo tak nejak, že?
kvasnicové Prazdroj is incredible.

[Kalleh1]

Learn a few basic words (dekuji=thank you) and watch your tab. Unlike the typical traveling American, I did learn a few basic Czech phrases. One of the problems was that we had come from Vienna where I had just learned some basic German phrases...so I got mixed up at times!

[Pivo Prosim]

Originally posted by Sladek
Ježiši Kriste!
I've been to that place--"U pivovaru", nebo tak nejak, že?
kvasnicové Prazdroj is incredible.

I'll take photos and notes so I can report on it later.
Really looking forward to it. Almost nothing tastes as good as the real Prazdroj.