I still haven't conqured chill haze

[hicks107]

I use many of the methods described in this forum and I still cant conquer chill haze.

I use 1 TSP irish moss 15 minutes before flame out. I use a wort chiller, I whirlpool, I ferment the 1 - 2- 3 week method. What am I missing???

I am an A.G brewer now and I notice more chill haze in my A.G. brews than with my extract w/grain brews. I just got some whirlfloc tablets and plan in trying one in my next brew.

BTW, when I whirlpool I usually have a lot of trub still and I dont want to waste that precious wort, so I end up grabbing half or so of the trub with the siphon. Could this be my problem?? I should just make the sacrifice?? If so that seems like a lot of wort. (approx. 1 gallon)

In a few more weeks my keggle setup will be complete with ball valve and I will be using a chore-boy to filter out the trub.

[markaberrant]

You need an agressive boil to generate proper hot break, and an agressive chill to generate proper cold break. AFAIK, that's about it when it comes to chill haze.

[BigEd]

What mark said. You have to create chill haze to treat it. Cold condition your beer and then either give it extended cold time or use a fining agent, gelatin or isinglass are the norm. Although the CW out there in homebrewland is that all you need with any beer is a single temp mash you may also want to consider adding a short rest at ~130F before going to sacchrification temp; especially if you are using a higher protein malt.

[Otis_The_Drunk]

Also I found that I like the Worlfloc Tablets way better than the Irish Moss.
But get that puppy boiling hard that way it breaks down the protien and then the Irish Moss or Worlfloc coagulates it and the quick cool down helps it drop out of suspension.

[BrewDog]

I was listening to Jamil's podcast this week. In his q&a section, he is asked a question about Irish Moss vs. whirlfloc. He says putting it in too early reduces its effectiveness. He says he uses whirlfloc at flameout because he uses his special immersion chiller.
He also said if you are using a CF chiller, you should only need to use the whirlfloc in the last 5 mins, but no longer than that for max effectiveness.

Jamil abandoned his use of a counterflow chiller in exchange for using his special "whirlpooled" immersion chiller. Basically he has an immersion chiller that he has additional tubing set up to squirt wort directly onto it so it forms a whirlpool motion in the kettle. He uses his pump to recirculate the wort out from the spigot and back into the pot through that additional tubing. If you have ever "stirred" the wort using your immersion chiller, you know how hot the outflow gets. This whirlpool motion greatly increases its effectiveness in both speed and cold break formation over just a plain immersion chiller, and its better than a CF chiller because the break stays in the kettle instead of going into the fermenter. Also, the whirlpool action cools the whole wort faster start to finish than his CF chiller did. He also mentioned that because the overall average wort temp gets down faster, there is less chance of it forming off flavor compounds (specifically DMS). This is contrary to the advantage of a CF where the majority of the wort stays hot enough to kill bacteria while only the current bit of wort is immediately cooled to safer temps.

I'm going to try this in my next batch to see how well it works.

[HogieWan]

My chill haze problems didn't go away until I started fixing my water chemistry with a little bit of gypsum.

[hicks107]

I guess that my problem is the aggressiveness of my boil and of my chill. I cant honestly say that I have seen cold-break. If I have, i didnt know what it was.

Maybe its time to build a bigger immersion chiller, especially since I am going to upgrade to my converted keg. I forgot what I used on my current chiller - what should I get for a converted keg? 20' of 1/4" ??

If I still see the chill-haze I will try additives or sterilized ice. The chore-boy at the bottom of the keggle might help too.

Thanks!

[MrNate]

Originally posted by HogieWan
My chill haze problems didn't go away until I started fixing my water chemistry with a little bit of gypsum.

Interesting, how does that work? Is it a matter of less protiens being produced in the mash?

[darylM]

Originally posted by hicks107
I guess that my problem is the aggressiveness of my boil and of my chill. I cant honestly say that I have seen cold-break. If I have, i didnt know what it was.

Maybe its time to build a bigger immersion chiller, especially since I am going to upgrade to my converted keg. I forgot what I used on my current chiller - what should I get for a converted keg? 20' of 1/4" ??

Thanks!

For an immersion chiller you need at least 3/8 of an inch. 1/4 inch is better for a counter flow chiller. Those aren't as easy to make as immersion but they chill faster with less water.

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by MrNate
Interesting, how does that work? Is it a matter of less protiens being produced in the mash?

I'm not sure I can truly answer why, but it happened. Even my dark porters and milds are bright as a filtered beer after years of struggling with chill haze

[CampAjohn]

I find that often the chill haze goes away as the ale rises to drinking temp. Also, haze is not the end of the world. Some ales are hazy by design. Mac & Jack's African Amber, brewed here in Redmond, WA, is always a little hazy.

[darylM]

There two issues to worry about when you have chill haze:

1> Cosmetic
2> Flavor stability - This is the real problem and can be solved by drinking the beer before it tastes weird. This can happen to beers with or without chill haze.


So to repeat CampAjohn, "haze is not the end of the world."

[Shaun Goeckner]

I have had great success by increasing my boil time to 90 minutes, and on a pale or amber beer we add gelatin (one packet in cooled, sterilized water shaken vigorously in a bottle) per 5 gallon carboy 5 days b4 botteling, and 2 days before we drop the temp to 35°....this helps drop both the gelatin and other proteins out. On Botteling Day I remove the carboy to room temp for a few hours...

Good Luck!