Lambic Style problems?

[tjones_jr]

at the end of september i started a Labic style Kriek...

I just racked to my glass carboy for a 6 month hibernation period.

when i tasted it, the distinctive sour taste was missing
(and since this is what i was hoping for, it's safe to assume i was dissappointed).

will this flavor develop over the next few months or am I stuck with the sourless not so stylish kriek lambic?

also, if this IS abnormal...where might i hae gone wrong and can i correct it at this point.

[ray m]

Not to sound like a smartass, but what yeast strain did you use? Even though I have never brewed a lambic, I do know that you have to use a specific type of lambic strain (the scientific name escapes me at the moment)---an ordinary Belgian Ale strain won't do it. Supposing that you indeed did use a lambic strain, you do know that all equipment that made contact with the brew cannot be used for brewing regular ales---something I read about the bacteria in the lambic strain kind of hanging around the equipment it contacts for a real long time. I would think that, even after a month, you would certainly taste at least a hint of lambic sourness, though (but again, I am completely inexperienced in the lambic dept.). I guess this reply did not help you a whole hell of a lot---sorry:(

[Theakston]

The sourness in a lambic comes from bacteria and wild yeasts. It is fermented without pitching any yeast, just relying on what is in the environment and the equipment. It will go through several stages of fermentation where bacteria and or wild yeasts will be most active. This is the classic Lambic process and people argue that this can only be produced in a small area of belgium where the climate and eco-system can support the development of these unique yeast strains.

There are, however, many brew kits and beers (such as sam Adams) that call themselves lambic when they are merely fruit beers. The best of these will at least have some Brett ( a wild yeast strain that has been cultured for home use ) and these will have some sourness. If yours doesn't have this then you could introduce it, along with some more fermentables, at this late stage and this may help.

Wyeast 3273 Brettanomyces bruxellensis
Brewtek CL-5200 Brettanomyces lambicus
Yeast Lab 3220 Brettanomyces Lambicus

are commercially available "wild " yeasts ( a bit of an oxymoron )

Brewtek CL-5600 Pediococcus damnosus
or Yeast Lab 3200 Pediococcus Cerevisiae

is a typical lambic bacteria strain that will produce lactic acid as a by product if you are feeling really adventurous.

In any case you will have to clean and sterilize everything in sight, very thoroughly after using any of these as they are very hardy and could easily infect future brews.

You might just want to drink the fruit beer.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by Theakston
The sourness in a lambic comes from bacteria and wild yeasts. It is fermented without pitching any yeast, just relying on what is in the environment and the equipment. It will go through several stages of fermentation where bacteria and or wild yeasts will be most active. This is the classic Lambic process and people argue that this can only be produced in a small area of belgium where the climate and eco-system can support the development of these unique yeast strains.
...

I've read that one of the old breweries in Belgium actually built their new brewery literally around the old brewery because the old building is infused with the microbes necessary for their spontaneous ferments.

[tjones_jr]

I used Wyeast 3278 (Lambic Blend).


Thanks for the info about the equipment. I was going to use the primary for an oatmeal stoudt this weekend. anyone know of links detailing this side effect. I'd hate to have to buy all new equipment.

I'm aware of the spontaneous fementation of the true belgium lambics, which is why I tried to be humble and declare mine a "lambic style". That story about the new/old brewery was pretty cool though. Do you know which it was.

thanks for all the input, i think i might just stick with the fruit beer and chalk it up to experience.

[Theakston]

That yeast has Brett and lactic bacteria, as I'm sure you know, so it should have some sourness. Not much else you can do at this stage, assuming it has reached its target OG. The lactic bacteria may take some time to work so it may still become sourer. even after bottling.

Don't know if its the same brewery that Fast Eddie read about but Cantillon rebuilt their brewhouse roof (it was falling down) and then put all of the old roof-tiles back underneath the new roof.....keeping as many cobwebs in place as possible.. so that they didn't risk loosing any of their sources of inoculation.

As far as clean up goes. Just make sure you sterilize everything, thoroughly. Clean all your brew area work surfaces with bleach to get rid of any traces of brett. You shouldn't need to throw any equipment away but if you used a plastic fermenter you may want to bleach that or even replace it if it's an old one.

[chris1kanobi]

That is the correct yeast strain. Did you add real fruit or extract? You might try adding some fresh or frozen cherries. Just plop them in the fermenter and wait about 3 months before racking. Or you could add a bit of lactic acid (the chemical created by the Brett bacteria). Your LHBS should sell small bottles of it and you can add a bit, taste, add a bit more if needed for the sourness you are looking for. Or pitch another starter of the yeast or just a Brett strain. My peach lambic is a few years old, and is still quite tart. I am hoping that next year it will smooth out and be delightful.

[brewmonkey]

Be aware that anytime you use exotic strains you need to make sure ALL of your area and equipment are cleaned and sani'd completely, or you will be forever the lambis brewer.

IF you wanted to experiment with some sour ales, go for an all grain batch and when you mash in leave it for 24-48 hours before going to sparge. Your mash will sour quite well and all you need to do is bring it back to mash out temp and continue as you normally would. I have produced several beers in this manner.

[Herb Ninja]

Don't know if its the same brewery that Fast Eddie read about but Cantillon rebuilt their brewhouse roof (it was falling down) and then put all of the old roof-tiles back underneath the new roof.....keeping as many cobwebs in place as possible.. so that they didn't risk loosing any of their sources of inoculation.

Ya its pretty old and scummy in there, not that its a bad thing, they brew the best lambic in the world.

This is the classic Lambic process and people argue that this can only be produced in a small area of belgium where the climate and eco-system can support the development of these unique yeast strains.

For the most part people argue correctly on that subject. Thats where the best wild yeasts and bacteria have been multiplying for centuries. :cool: