thinking of making an abbey beer

[b3s]

unfortunately, at my local paint store, the bottles of belgian abbey's all have dust on them and i'm afraid of getting a beer that's gone bad, so i don't have a flavor profile to go by.

i found a couple of recipes that sound good, but i'm looking for input. here are the two recipes that, based on the grains (i have used them) sound good, but i've never used those hops before...could use some input.

recipe #1
1# belgian special B
4 oz. chocolate
8# light DME
1# candi sugar
4 oz. molasses (i'll be excluding this, i don't like the flavor profile).
2 oz. tettnanger @ 60
1 oz. saaz @ 15
wyeast 1762 (belgian abbey 2)

recipe #2
4 oz. belgian aromatic (great grain!)
8 oz. belgian caramunich
4 oz. american chocolate
9# light dme (called for some brown sugar, but i'm substituting dme...also increased the dme because the recipe i found called for lme and i rarely use that stuff)
2 oz tettnanger @ 60
1 oz williamette @ 15
wyeast 1214 belgian ale

Any thoughts? TIA

[ray m]

It sounds like you're trying to make either a Belgian Strong dark ale or a dubbel---yes?? IMHO, I would go with recipe #2, but only use 2 oz. of chocolate malt and would go with the hops in recipe #1. I know you've probably been brewing awhile---a little chocolate malt goes a long way and I don't think you would want a real roasty flavor in there. I made a Belgian strong dark over a year ago where I added 2 3/4 lbs. of honey to it to make it interesting.

[b3s]

hmmm, i like brewing with honey, and i like the flavor profile (some really good local honey here)...i ran the numbers through recipator on the following recipe:

recipe #3
8 oz. belgian caramunich
4 oz. belgian aromatic (i really like this grain)
2 oz. american chocolate
9# light DME
2# honey (clover for me)
2 oz. tettnanger (pellet) @ 60
1 oz. saaz (leaf) @ 15

estimates from recipator (assuming 1.010 FG):
1.084 OG
20 HCU
12 IBU
9.5% abv

hmmmm, now THAT is sounding like a damn good beer, even though i've never used those hops before! hope the FG matches :D

unless i get any other useful insights, i think i'll be going with that one!

[ray m]

That will be good! Just for your reference, I believe my Belgian Strong had 6.5 lbs. LME + 2.5 lbs. honey plus a lot of steeped specialty grains---@ 2.5 lbs. worth. OG was 1.086; FG @ 1.015(?). ABV was 8.6%. MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!! I think those hops will be a good combination. I think I used nothing but Saaz (2 oz. @ 60 min.; 1 oz. @ 10 min left.). Ya know, you really need to send me the batch so I can tell you if you did it right:p

[b3s]

while i've never used those hops before, that recipe is starting to sound really good. i might increase the belgian aromatic because the two brews i did with that grain i really liked a lot.

this could be the 2nd brew kegged (the first would be the irish red i'm racking right now)...but that's only if i get off my butt and build that double spigot kegerator! gonna get the fridge tommorow and the actual parts next saturday when i get the ingredients for this recipe. since i like to get 2 recipe ingredients at a time, i better get cracking on the next one...hmmm, i really liked that stout recipe i made...time to tweek that one a bit, it was only 8.5% abv :D

unforunately a case of the honey wheat i'm bottling tomorrow is spoken for, or i'd wait and get the kegs and keg that. i'm gonna prime that one with honey, tho, and use one of my tap-a-draft bottles for it.

[YamahaXS]

i used Saaz in my last batch for finishing. I would descibe their aroma as spicey and i suspect will make a great finishing hop for an Abbey

[Beerconnoisseur]

Initially, I was shooting for a more intense clone of Heineken Special Dark. Less watered down, was the goal.

Cracked open the first bottle tonight, and this one was FANTASTIC. The malt flavor is simply out of this world. There are a few subtle tweeks I will probably make, next time I brew it, especially to the hops. But this extract recipe is almost good to go, as is...

Malt Extract:

6 lbs. German Pilsner LME

Specialty Grains for Steeping:

1 lb. Crystal 15L
1 lb. Caravienne
<both steeped for 60 minutes>

Hops:

1 oz. 6% AA Perle (added @ 45 minutes, boiling addition)
1 oz. 6% AA Perle (added @ 5 minutes, flavoring addition)
1 oz. 11% AA Newport (added @ 2 minutes, aroma addition)

Yeast:

1 vial White Labs California V Ale Yeast

My comments:

The most disappointing part of the recipe has been the Newport hops. For my next batch, I will probably switch it out with another hop for aroma; maybe Spalt, or Tettnanger. The caramel sweetness is also nearly too intense, so I may add 1/2 lb. Caravienne, and use 1/2 lb. Victory or Munich to give it a subtle maltiness, but round out the flavor some. Steeping the bitterness hops for 50-60 minutes may also help.

All in all, though, not bad for a first recipe from scratch! :D

[b3s]

Originally posted by YamahaXS
i used Saaz in my last batch for finishing. I would descibe their aroma as spicey and i suspect will make a great finishing hop for an Abbey

how much saaz did you use? if it gives a spicy overtone, would 2 ounces (leaf) be too much? while i don't want it to be too hoppy a nice kick to it would be nice.

[b3s]

Originally posted by Beerconnoisseur
The caramel sweetness is also nearly too intense, so I may add 1/2 lb. Caravienne, and use 1/2 lb. Victory or Munich to give it a subtle maltiness, but round out the flavor some.

that's my big fear, that the honey might make it too sweet...maybe i'll cut down the honey, add some dme, and then maybe kick up the aromatic or add in some caravienee...not quiet sure...got a week to think about it, though :)

did, however, tweek my stout recipe a bit, so that's good to go...well, i'm reconsidering the hops, maybe.

[YamahaXS]

Originally posted by b3s
how much saaz did you use? if it gives a spicy overtone, would 2 ounces (leaf) be too much? while i don't want it to be too hoppy a nice kick to it would be nice.

I used a 1 ounce plug. I think you could go with more hops since thats going to be such a big beer.

[brewmonkey]

I would use Styrian Goldings for those beers.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by brewmonkey
I would use Styrian Goldings for those beers.

Here's the latest "Belgian" I concocted and brewed - similar so I thought I'd post. BTW - it's great and only getting better.

Eddy Demon Belgian

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Garetz


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
76.9 12.50 lbs. Pilsener Belgium 1.037 2
7.7 1.25 lbs. CaraVienne Malt Belgium 1.034 22
15.4 2.50 lbs. Wheat Malt America 1.038 2

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.25 oz. Styrian Goldings Whole 5.25 16.4 60 min.
1.25 oz. Czech Saaz Whole 3.50 0.0 10 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes


It's devilishly high in alcohol but it's hidden very well.

[brewmonkey]

I am also partial to White Labs yeast (no duh!) and love their WLP530 in about 90% of the Belgian beers that I do.

Sadly DWC is no longer malting as there product was the best around for making a Belgian style. Dingemans is now the one I would choose, I also believe they have entered into an agreement to continue to produce some of the lineup that DWC had, like the Special B!

[b3s]

ok, i think i've toyed around with this recipe enough...what i wound up with was:


8 oz. belgian aromatic
8 oz. belgian caravienne
2 oz. american chocolate (4 oz. would give the color i'd like, but i'm afraid it might overpower the beer)
9 lbs. light DME
1 lbs. honey (clover)
2 oz. saaz pellet @ 60
1 oz. saaz leaf @ 15
WLP530 (white labs abbey ale) yeast

[ray m]

That'll make one tasty brew, b3s!!!! My guess is you'll have an ABV at least @ 8%. BTW, just 1 lb. of honey?!?

BTW....I just cracked open a bottle of my Belgian Strong which is going on 15 months old now. Jeeeezzzussss.......this brew is a totally different brew now. DANGEROUSLY smooth and the hint of honey flavor is awesome. b3s, you really need to plan on setting aside at least a dozen or so for a year+. There's so much to be said for aging (I'm sure you know).

[b3s]

well, i don't want it to be too sweet. i'm adjusting my brewing with honey policy to add the honey after the boil and let it sit for 15 minutes (the wort should still be hot enough to kill any bacteria, but not so hot as to kill the flavor profile).

i might readjust...the honey i get comes in an odd size (25 oz or something like that) so i'd just add the whole container.

i'll be kegging this one (if i get the kegerator made in time, this will be the 2nd kegged beer). what i'll probably do is bottle some to age and keg the rest.

i'd hate to commit 6 ez-caps to long term storage, yet i really dislike 12 oz. beers...oh the dilemna...i might need more ez-caps, too ;)

[b3s]

ok, i brewed this one up...hit the color spot on (a nice, deep, dull brown color) and it tasted damn good! at the last minute (15 minutes left in boil) i decided to toss in a teaspoon of cinamon just to be different...i think this one's gonna be a winner!

[Kansas Brew]

Brewmonkey I noticed that you use White Labs WLP530. I recently used this on an Abbey Triple. After Three weeks in the fermenter it still has krausen on top and is still flocculating. I did a second rack and tasted it. It taste like a triple with no off tasted. But after I racked it the krausen comes back and it has another layer about 3/8's of an inch on bottom. Is this normal for this yeast strain?

[b3s]

well, i racked this...color was spot on, but i think next time i'll go a bit darker...initial taste was VERY interesting....nice sweet aroma, deep malty flavor, nice spice to it, a bit dry...i think all the honey fermented out :(

after a couple of minutes of the residual after taste of this one, i can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is going to be one damn fine ale! good malt, nice spice, slightly sweet...just a touch dry, but that's ok.

[ray m]

Sounds very close to my Belgian Strong Dark....glad to hear it's probably gonna be a good brew!!!

[b3s]

well, i just bottled and kegged this bad boy! checked FG...1.010! (didn't check OG, so I don't have an alcohol rating)

color was lighter than what i was hoping for, but it's still the nice caramel color of a dubbel.

taste? WOW! ok, yeah, flat cuz it's not carbonated yet...but this is quite possibly the best beer i've made yet. very strong, very deep malt flavors. the saaz really spiced it up and the wee bit of cinamon adds a nice little extra zip. there is just the hint of the honey in the taste, yet it's not a totally dry beer.

i can hardly wait until the keg is online! i especially can't wait until a year or two from now when i open up one of those bottles!

[Moondoggy]

ok, i think i've toyed around with this recipe enough...what i wound up with was:

8 oz. belgian aromatic

8 oz. belgian caravienne

2 oz. american chocolate (4 oz. would give the color i'd like, but i'm afraid it might overpower the beer)

9 lbs. light DME

1 lbs. honey (clover)

2 oz. saaz pellet @ 60

1 oz. saaz leaf @ 15

WLP530 (white labs abbey ale) yeast
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Okay, I just bought all the stuff for this one and even crushed the grain at the store.

I plan on doing this one hopefully this weekend. Any comments, amendments or additions are welcome.