Is this guy crazy?

[CJ01]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uIfoTbaHaY&mode=related&search=

He only uses what I call the bottling bucket and never racks it to secondary (no carboy).

He is getting foam during bottling (see other videos), is that because he isn't racking to secondary?


I'm brand new to home brewing so excuse my lack of knowledge/terms.

[barleyburps]

I was unable to view the video due to my seriously outdated equipment. However, I always bottle and keg directly from the primary also and yes, I get foam during bottling. The beer is still on its last legs of fermentation at this point.

[sittingcow]

I doubt his beer would win any awards, but no, he's not crazy, just lazy.

[steveh]

The discussion of secondary or not has come up before - and I'm surprised there are so many who don't. I don't think I've ever tried a home-brew that sat in the primary only (can't speak as of late, but at one point my HB club members all utilized a secondary), but I imagine it wouldn't be as clean, clear, and well-blended of flavors.

S.

[Mad Scientist]

What is sterlizing solution?

[steveh]

Probably iodifore (sp?), iodine solution -- a little goes a long way, and be sure to rinse well.

S.

[MrNate]

Nothing crazy about it, I used to brew like this. Once I just served it fron the spigot on the primary because I was too lazy to bottle it.

[CJ01]

Originally posted by MrNate
Nothing crazy about it, I used to brew like this. Once I just served it fron the spigot on the primary because I was too lazy to bottle it.

:eek: Wow.

Thanks for the input guys.

[corkybstewart]

I'm of the no secondary persuasion. I leave all my beers in primary for a couple of weeks after fermentation ends. There's nothing magic about moving beer to another container, except increasing oxidation/infection chances. The key is patience in prmary. The same stuff that settles out in secondary will settle out in the primary bucket as well. As for autolysis or off flavors from trub you'ld have to leave it in primary for months to have that happen.
Some of the big names in homebrewing like Jamil and Denny Conn are pushong the primary only system, people who have done controlled experiments have proven in competition that there is no real benefit to secondary.
On other forums I visit this subjuect comes up pretty often and seems to really bring out the worst in people.
My personal take is just that, mine and whatever you do is the right way if it works for you.

[steveh]

Originally posted by corkybstewart
There's nothing magic about moving beer to another container

Until the yeast gets hungry and starts to feed on itself and you get some really off flavors.

S.

[barleyburps]

Until the yeast gets hungry and starts to feed on itself and you get some really off flavors.

I've been brewing for years without a secondary, and have never experianced autolysis. I always have some yeast settled in the bottom of my kegs, but the vast majority comes off in the first couple of pints.

Like corky said, typically we rotate through our stock at a rate that you don't need to really worry about it.

I have ~1/4 of a 15 gallon keg that was brewed and kegged in january of '04, which I tap every now and then, and it is still shows no negative signs. Of course it helps that it is a stout. . .

If you're ever going to be in the central OH region, pm me and I'll invite you over for some primary only beer.

[brazilhead]

OK, but as has been said before here, when you transfer to a keg, that´s in effect a secondary. Taking the first couple of beers out of the keg is like removing the yeast through a conical. I still bottle and while I´ve definitely done fine beers with only a primary, I don´t think it´s the same thing as putting it in a keg. (Corky I know you leave it in primary longer than that but this guys left it 10 days he said.)

Still, after watching the last part of that video I can´t help thinking that he IS a bit crazy. He just runs hot tap water over a bottling wand and bottle caps for about a minute and then says it´s all "sterilized." (But still basically saying 'Don´t try this at home'.) And claiming to have never had a problem in 20+ years. (Some people say the current Pope was a homebrewer so maybe we´re all getting a little help from upstairs.) Ah, what the hell, he´s definitely showed a lot of people how easy it can be so I´ll drink to that.

[barleyburps]

really??? the current pope was a homebrewer???. . . . maybe I need to rethink my religious status. . . .

[noby]

Originally posted by brazilhead


Still, after watching the last part of that video I can´t help thinking that he IS a bit crazy. He just runs hot tap water over a bottling wand and bottle caps for about a minute and then says it´s all "sterilized." (But still basically saying 'Don´t try this at home'.) And claiming to have never had a problem in 20+ years.

I do this, albeit with boiling water. In food hygiene, heating to over 70degC for a couple of minutes (I can't think of the exact figures off the top of my head) will kill all the nasties. I also often skip secondary. My last batch was a week in primary, then bottled.
If he's making good beer, (I haven't watched the video) which I don't doubt, then what's so crazy?

[sittingcow]

If his water heater is set hot enough, that could be plenty sufficient (well, not to sterilize, but to sanitize).

[steveh]

Originally posted by barleyburps
really??? the current pope was a homebrewer???. . . .

I never heard he was a home brewer, though he has a favorite beer from his small hometown: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14729795/

Being from Germany, why would you need to be a home brewer? ;)

S.

[MichaelM]

lol I get about 135+ degrees outta my water heater, doesnt change the fact even after a very good hot soak/rinse I still soak everything in idophore and keep the bottle caps soaking in a tray of idophore when I am bottleing... even with all that I have still had the occasional bottle get a gusher (maybe 4-5 of them )...

I am not buying the never had a problem thing lol......

as far as secondary goes I kinda think it depends on the type of beer being done..

My barleywine went to secondary and even tertiary it took alittle over 5 months to finish fermenting out

My wit just did primary for about 3 weeks and then bottled..

I know that doing a secondary for me has helped get a cleaner product into the bottles.. But I really feel it all just depends on the style your brewing

[sittingcow]

135 degrees isn't very hot. It's probably really wasteful of energy, and definitely dangerous, but I've known water heaters to deliver 180-200F water. I think (THINK!) 160F would sanitize things with a minute or two of contact.... However, if he hasn't had any problems with his plastic melting or cracking, it's probably not hot enough.

I don't know why I'm even half-defending the dude, though. I would never ever count on that.

[brazilhead]

He just holds the wand in one hand and puts what he says is almost boiling water on it for less than a minute. On second thought maybe he has so much luck with this because it´s post-fermentation.

Yeah, there are only rumors about the pope´s homebrewing. He certainly hasn´t been doing it in quite a while and he probably wouldn´t fess up to it even in his younger years. That he likes fine beer is well documented.

[steveh]

Originally posted by barleyburps
I've been brewing for years without a secondary, and have never experianced autolysis.

Can you be so certain? Maybe the flavors have all just mixed well with the esters and styles of beers you've been making. As you point out, it's easy to hid fault in Stout, but I'd never keep a Pils or Kolsch on the yeast bed for the full fermentation.

When you Primary-only brewers transfer to keg, do you allow for some aging time there? That could constitute as secondary to some degree.

S.

[corkybstewart]

Most of my kegs will sit for a month before there's room in the kegerator, so that is similar to secondary. I just like to minimize moving the beer from one vessel to another. I don't recommend against letting beer age, I just don't like the idea of racking to a carboy and then racking to the bottling bucket or kegs later.
It really is a matter of personal choice and homebrewing style-neither method has any absolute advantage over the other.

[MichaelM]

Originally posted by corkybstewart
Most of my kegs will sit for a month before there's room in the kegerator, so that is similar to secondary. I just like to minimize moving the beer from one vessel to another. I don't recommend against letting beer age, I just don't like the idea of racking to a carboy and then racking to the bottling bucket or kegs later.
It really is a matter of personal choice and homebrewing style-neither method has any absolute advantage over the other.


yea thats pretty much it right there neither style has any real major advantage over the other.....


racking stuff around introduces O2 so your running oxidation risks(unless lucky enough to be able to purge secondaries with co2) and contamination risks...

not racking your running risks of off tastes from autolysis and alittle more yeast then what you might want for the style......


really its just what your comfortable with

[Chubber]

I used to secondary every batch, but now I don't. If you can either cold-crash your beer before bottling or kegging or you can keep most of your hop trub in the boil kettle, I don't see much reason to secondary. Yeah, if you are going to add fruit or oak chips or dry hop, you might want to secondary. Or the style benefits from extended ageing in the secondary, then I secondary.

So, if I am doing an oaked barleywine or I know that I got a huge slug of hops trub in the primary or I am setting the beer to age for more than 6 weeks, then I don't bother with the secondary. Why give it one more chance to get oxydized or infected?

[BrewMax]

My experience with homebrewing is that if you're doing an extract brew, then just primary fermentation is fine. However, the need to eliminate trub increases as you move to partial mashes and then to all-grain. It's possible to rack off clear wort from the boiler to the fermenter after it's cooled, but in practice, I usually end up with some trub anyway. So for all-grain brewing I always do a secondary fermentation and have seen some marked improvement in my beers.

[dparsons]

I think his comment is telling:
"Don't do it the way I do and cut corners. Do it the way you should do it."

You can brew with simpler approaches. It saves time but doesn't give quite as good a result.

[hooky]

I've also stopped using a secondary since I started kegging. I give it a week or two in the primary after it's done fermenting. I then do what chubber talks about. A couple of days in my kegerator to really settle everything out and then into a keg. It racks very cleanly if you pay attention to what you're doing.

I'm going to brew a RIS and a robust porter soon. Those will go to secondary, but only because they need to age and I don't want to tie up kegs or kegerator space.

I do use more than hot tap water to sanitize though. :D